Posted on 08/03/2013 1:08:21 PM PDT by NEWwoman
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| Wikipedia/Co Tibbets - the Enola Gay |
Coming up on the 68th anniversary of the flight of the Enola Gay - which hastened the end of World War Two
It may look better at the original site - http://smithsk.blogspot.com/2013/08/americas-story-part-13-enola-gay.html
It always gets me how some liberals say that we should not have dropped the atomic bomb on Japan.
It’s easy to do revisionist history from the safety and security of the present day. As opposed to President Truman, at the time, in a time of war, having to make the call to go ahead with it.
For what it’s worth, Truman himself never second guessed himself on the decision to drop the bomb.
Mega dittos, Diblert San Diego -
As mentioned in this article, my father-in-law was due to be redeployed to Japan after VE Day. He may have been one of million projected causalities if the war had been prolonged.
FDR’s “unconditional surrender” policy prolonged the war.
The Germans would have happily booted the Nazis—if the had recieved any positve response from their MANY diplomatic contacts with the allies AT ALL.
Think:
War ends in 1943. Hitler dead.
No invasion of Normandy.
No bloody battles across Europe.
No cities bombed flat/RRs and bridges down—countryside wrecked.
Holocaust curtailed—most Jews and others survive.
Eastern Europe free and independant.
Poland restored.
Russia stifled—NO COLD WAR!
Japan CREAMED—remember they recieved less than one TENTH of US war effort.
FDR was a jerk.
Great point. I’ve heard that at the time, it was estimated that there would be a million American casualties, and into the millions of Japanese casualties, if we had to do a conventional invasion of Japan.
As it turned out, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki actually saved many lives, on both sides.
Interesting ideas, Flinklock.
Please elaborate on what you are talking about. I don’t think I’ve ever heard about diplomatic contacts by the Germans, or the possibility of overthrowing Hitler.
Yes it would have been great if the war had ended in 1943. But not sure exactly how that could have happened. Please elaborate. Thanks.
BTW, I knew a man who knew Col Tibbits and was stationed at Tinian. He remembers watching them load “Little Boy” on the “Enola Gay” although at the time, he did not know it was an atom bomb. He watched the plane take off and when the Enola Gay returned, my friend was tending bar at the officer’s club and as he served and talked with Col. Tibbits, he remembers Tibbits saying, “what have we done” over and over again. He also remembers Bocks Car too.
I’m curious too, I’m an alternate history junkie. Do you think 1943 German would have turned on the Nazis? I could see it maybe a year later if the bomb plot succeeded or if Hitler got run over by a truck or mauled to death by Blondie, his dog, but I cannot see it happening unless I’m missing something.
That is quite a story, Nowhere Man. You touched part of history.
The invasion of Okinawa removed any shred of doubt whether the bomb would be used.
After some of the US naval bombardments there were parts of the island where nothing was left alive. No animals, humans, vegetation, insects. Nothing. The Okinawans called it “The Steel Rain”.
And still the Japanese would not surrender. The thought of an invasion of Honshu was taken off the table.
Recommend you watch “Above and Beyond,” made in 1952 and starring Ray Milland and Eleanor Parker. Youtube had it in segments but looks like they took it down.
Sorry! It stars Robert Taylor! Better watch it again myself!
Will keep my eyes out for it. It may come up as a movie on Dish TV.
I remember seeing the movie, the Enola Gay - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080689/
The atomic bombing of Hiroshima did not break the will of the Jap warlords to continue the war, nor did the second atomic bombing. But the bombings persuaded Hirohito that something new & terrible was being used on Japan, that immediate contact with the Americans was imperative to save his nation, and he gave his first ever command as Emperor to the imperial war council:
“I wish all of you to agree with me on this point.”
Hirohito then made his secret recording in which he asked that the Japanese people accept the new reality, and once that was broadcast, the Jap war effort was at an end.
Not making Hirohito the maker of peace necessarily, but under Japanese state Shinto he was a god, and so he used his state powers. After the war following his undeification, Hirohito went back to his first love, marine biology.
In other words, Harry Truman made exactly the right decision. Since my Dad’s infantry regiment was headed from Europe to the Pacific theater, I’m glad for that.
Yep, my dad was at Okinawa.
I’m probably wrong, because its been years since I was at Wright Patterson where they have the display, but I thought that Enola had Fat Boy, and Bockscar had Little Boy. (I’m easily confused nowadays, so I probably have it backwards.)
Bockscar is still on display in a remote section of the museum, along with mock ups of both bombs. One was round and “fat” the other was long and “skinny” (little boy).
WWII guys know right where those stinkers are.
Vets like my father made a pilgrimage to see that plane and touch it. They would run their hands over it and cry openly.
In their minds, Enola delivered the first earth shaking punch, but Bockscar delivered the knockout blow.
Japan wasn’t convinced that we had more than one bomb. Bockscar made them believers.
Instead of insisting on unconditional surrender, the Allies should have issued a set of preconditions for peace talks such as insisting that Germany replace Hitler, agree to withdraw to its 1938 borders, order its submarines to return to port and close its death camps. In addition, the Allies should have given covert aid to anti-Nazi groups in Germany.
One CANNOT forget another immediate crisis the Japanese faced that played a very major part in their decision to surrender to America: Russian invasion of the northern islands.
By the time Hiroshima and Nagasaki were flattened, most of the Tokyo, Yokohama, Chiba regions were already moonscapes, thanks to Curtis LeMay and his firebombing campaigns. The Japanese learned that the Americans could now make a moonscape with just one plane. Very unsettling.
Japan rightly feared the Soviet armies and their well known barbarism and penchant for atrocity. It was unthinkable that Soviet savages be allowed to put a foot on Hokkaido.
Among the Japanese military, the US was grudgingly seen as “The Honorable Enemy,” who had fought a dogged war with them. Surrender to such a foe was far more acceptable, under the circumstances, than having even one Russian soldier set foot or the main islands.
The Soviets were indeed upset when Truman blanked them out of a place at the surrender table.
I'm headin' to the store for some firecrackers as we speak!
stealing that
There are even some who say we had no business going to war against Germany... that wars are not always inevitable.
yep, some people say “war is not the answer”. But, what would a better response to Pearl Harbor or 9/11 have been? When wars are started by others intent on killing us, what do they propose we do???
Germany declared war on the US, we responded in kind. I suppose the liberals would have wanted us to surrender immediately.
“... that wars are not always inevitable. “
I suppose that there are some wars that were not inevitable but Hitler did not need anymore time to accrue resources and advance his tech than he got.
“FDR’s “unconditional surrender” policy prolonged the war.
...
Think:
War ends in 1943. Hitler dead.
No invasion of Normandy.
No bloody battles across Europe.
No cities bombed flat/RRs and bridges down—countryside wrecked.
...
Russia stifled—NO COLD WAR!
...
FDR was a jerk.”
Lots of faint hopes here, dressed up as real possibilities. Sad to say, they are all unprovable
The “unconditional surrender” policy wasn’t purely FDR’s idea; Great Britain and the USSR were heavily involved. And their nations were at least under as much of a threat. as the US.
“Unconditional surrender” came from the unhappy aftermath of the Great War (aka World War I). German leaders did not feel they’d been beaten in 1918, and stirred up their own citizens on that account (Nazism was just an excuse). Allies figured Germans were not trustworthy, and so ignored any peace overtures during World War II.
Anyone who thinks the USSR would not have been a threat after an early end to WWII is mistaken. By 1943 they were fielding divisions in amounts nearing 20 times more than Britain, Canada, and US combined.
Complaints about air strikes against Axis cities are only voiced by those who have no idea. By claiming to feel pity for the enemy, they are indulging in moral equivalizing. One might even call it a form of moral hubris - an odious form at that.
But all of this misses the point. The sequence of events must be: (1) win the war. (2) worry about morality. If you don’t succeed at (1), all need for (2) vanishes.
Insightful analysis, ConradoMontferrat ... and many of the other comments/discussions from other FR-pers, also.
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