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Greenfield" Hiroshima's Lessons for the War on Terror
Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog ^ | Monday, August 12, 2013 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 08/13/2013 5:35:00 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell

Monday, August 12, 2013

Hiroshima's Lessons for the War on Terror

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog
In the summer of '45, the United States concluded a war that had come to be seen by some as unwinnable after the carnage at Iwo Jima, with a bang.

On August 6th, the bomb fell on Hiroshima. And then on the 9th, it was Nagasaki's turn. Six days
later, Japan, which had been preparing to fight to the last man, surrendered.

For generations of liberals, those two names would come to represent the horror of America's war machine, when they actually represented a pragmatic ruthlessness that saved countless American and Japanese lives.

There can hardly be a starker contrast to our endless unwinnable nation-building exercises in which nothing is ever finished until we give up than the way that Truman cut the Gordian Knot and avoided a long campaign that would have depopulated Japan and destroyed the lives of a generation of American soldiers.


(Excerpt) Read more at sultanknish.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: greenfield; hiroshima; japan; nagasaki; sultanknish; worldwareleven
Sultan Knish/Daniel Greenfield Ping List (notification of new articles).

FReepmail or drop me a comment to get on or off the Sultan Knish ping list.

I highly recommend an occasional look at the Sultan Knish blog. It is a rich source of materials, links and more from one of the preeminent writers of our age.

1 posted on 08/13/2013 5:35:00 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell
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To: Louis Foxwell

Nuke Mecca.

Twice.


2 posted on 08/13/2013 5:37:05 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: arasina; daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; ...

Sorry about the excerpt. It is the only way to get the post up with the current glitch.

Greenfield opens some nasty wounds, not the least of which are cowardice and lack of moral fibre.
We have to get the children out of the living room.


3 posted on 08/13/2013 5:37:41 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Well, his ideas are correct, his central fact is wrong.

The bombs didn’t end the war, a tape recorder did.


4 posted on 08/13/2013 5:42:55 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Louis Foxwell
The spectacle of Nidal Hasan trying to communicate to a politically correct military bureaucracy that he really is a Muslim terrorist is almost comic. Before the shootings, he expressed sympathy for terrorists and put his Islamic holy warrior tag on his business cards. He did everything short of hiring a skywriter to fly over Fort Hood writing, "Nidal Hasan is a Muslim Terrorist".
5 posted on 08/13/2013 5:44:37 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Ask me about the Weiner Wager. Support Free Republic!)
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To: Louis Foxwell
In the summer of '45, the United States concluded a war that had come to be seen by some as unwinnable after the carnage at Iwo Jima
Carnage at Iwo Jima, yes. But I think it was the battle for Okinawa that convinced the US they could never win by invading Japan.
6 posted on 08/13/2013 5:46:28 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: I cannot think of a name

> The bombs didn’t end the war, a tape recorder did.

Please elaborate.


7 posted on 08/13/2013 5:46:29 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

The Left repeatedly pushed the meme that it took Booosh longer to win the war in Iraq than it took to win WWII. Except we entered WWII while it was already under way for several years and finished it off with two major nuclear strikes.

The same double standard they used when they proclaimed that at least Saddam Hussein kept acts of terrorism down in Iraq (by raping and disembowling prisoners’ wives, cutting off their hands, etc.). Generally behaving as a tyrannical dictator against everyone, not just terrorists, but critics and innocents.


8 posted on 08/13/2013 5:47:03 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (America 2013 - STUCK ON STUPID)
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To: I cannot think of a name

Your comment deserves elaboration. Please elucidate.


9 posted on 08/13/2013 5:47:10 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
The real lesson is our occupation and complete control of their government.

Unless we are willing to set up a Marshal Law scenario like MacArthur did, the Middle East will always be a snake den in need of extermination.

10 posted on 08/13/2013 5:49:00 AM PDT by airborne (MY HEROES DON'T WEAR CAPES. MY HEROES WEAR DOG TAGS ! ! !)
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To: I cannot think of a name
Recordings were laid down on EP records in those days.
11 posted on 08/13/2013 5:49:14 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Louis Foxwell
It is better to end a war by winning it than it is to drag it out for decades.
See how well Germany, Italy and Japan recovered by their own labor, as opposed to Vietnam.
Iraq and Afghanistan are Vietnams, they will never be like Japan.
As far as nation building is concerned, let the losing countries rebuild on their own, so they A: Value what they have, B: Earn the skills to keep building and C: Don't burden American taxpayers forever.

12 posted on 08/13/2013 5:51:23 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: Louis Foxwell

On Sept 12, 2001, a single ICBM should have struck Mecca, hitting with all 8 warheads and reducing it to nothing. Then Afghanistan should have been saturated from one end to the other with nerve gas, Kabul nuked, and every structure in every village hit with World War II scale conventional bombing. Not so much as a goat left. Then the nuking of Baghdad, Tehran, and other strongholds of the enemy afterward. This could have been done in two weeks, followed by the announcement that the US will not tolerate assaults on its own soil.


13 posted on 08/13/2013 5:57:59 AM PDT by GenXteacher (You have chosen dishonor to avoid war; you shall have war also.)
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To: Westbrook; Louis Foxwell
After the second bomb fell, the senior Jap commanders decided the war was lost, and the decision was made that the emperor should go on the radio and tell the people to quit. Many of the next level of officers decided they couldn't accept this, and they would take control away from the emperor. The reasoning was that it would be better to have Japan totally destroyed and every person killed rather than surrender.

The senior commanders said they couldn't go against the emperor, so they would have to commit suicide to get out of the younger commanders way. That night they had a large gathering to ‘celebrate’ the death of the senior commanders. Too much was drunk and things didn't end till morning. They rushed to the Emperor's palace and surrounded - no radio address today.

What they didn't know was that it had previously been decided that the Emperor might not be able to get through reading such a document. It was decided to record the message and play it back over the radio (I don't know if the device was actually a ‘tape’ recorder, it may have used wire as many did back then).

When the radical commanders surrounding the palace heard the Emperor's voice over the radio, they knew they were sunk and committed suicide themselves. I always thought it was funny that people marveled at how good the Japaneses became at building consumer electronics. Hell, without them their country would have probably been bombed into the stone age - although it might have taken a little longer as we had already dropped the only two atomic bombs we had on them.

14 posted on 08/13/2013 5:59:59 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Louis Foxwell

One thing that is never mentioned in all the weeping an gnashing of teeth, that 100,000 captives held by the Japanese were dying per month at that time. Still captives died at the end of the war for a while as they were too starved to survive, but many who died in captivity were saved.


15 posted on 08/13/2013 6:05:46 AM PDT by mfish13 (ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!!)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
“Recordings were laid down on EP records in those days.”

There were recorders using magnetized paper tape in the late 1920’s, BASF invented Mylar tape sometime in the 30s, although as I mentioned in my answer above, the device would probably have used wire instead of tape. We used wire recorders extensively through World War II.

16 posted on 08/13/2013 6:07:30 AM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: GenXteacher

But then the globalist oligarchs could not exploit their creation, the terrorist orgs.


17 posted on 08/13/2013 6:09:57 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

I had the privilege of meeting and chatting with Gen. Paul Tibbets.

There was NO doubt in his mind (or mine) that we did the right thing at the right time.


18 posted on 08/13/2013 6:12:11 AM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: Louis Foxwell

In his book “The Five Rings” Musashi described a tactic in fighting (either individual combat or war) called Piercing the Bottom. In this tactic one does not stop when the enemy is defeated physically, but continues attacking with such ferocity that the enemy loses all hope of victory and completely gives up resistance.


19 posted on 08/13/2013 6:13:18 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Hold your face to the light, even though for the moment you do not see.)
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To: mfish13
One thing that is never mentioned in all the weeping an gnashing of teeth, that 100,000 captives held by the Japanese were dying per month at that time. Still captives died at the end of the war for a while as they were too starved to survive, but many who died in captivity were saved.

My dad was on a baby flattop that picked up POWs from a Japanese internment camp and took them back to an island with a large hospital. He was almost 80 before my brothers and I got him to talk about it.

20 posted on 08/13/2013 6:26:36 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: Louis Foxwell

This article has shades of “Aplocolype Now” in it.


21 posted on 08/13/2013 6:27:26 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: I cannot think of a name
I think in 1945 Japan, a transcription record would have been used.
22 posted on 08/13/2013 6:34:20 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: Travis McGee; SandRat; Liz; MestaMachine; LucyT; RaceBannon
The spectacle of Nidal Hasan trying to communicate to a politically correct military bureaucracy that he really is a Muslim terrorist is almost comic. Before the shootings, he expressed sympathy for terrorists and put his Islamic holy warrior tag on his business cards. He did everything short of hiring a skywriter to fly over Fort Hood writing, "Nidal Hasan is a Muslim Terrorist".

Ted Koppel's advice of ignoring Muslim terrorism because it's more dangerous to react to it, backfired badly at Fort Hood.

Ping

23 posted on 08/13/2013 6:49:54 AM PDT by GOPJ (Sob stories make bad law...)
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To: Louis Foxwell

My only brother was killed on Okinawa and the day that the war with Japan was over I was in line at a Leyte Replacement Depot, about 7th or 8th in line, to get battle gear to invade Japan. When we were told to go back to our tents there was a great feeling of relief even though we still had that feeling that in cases like mine there was no revenge. After all is said and done war is hate and revenge. My brother’s last v-mail was that he was willing to go all the way if I wouldn’t have to come. Those words just stick in my memory to this day.


24 posted on 08/13/2013 6:51:57 AM PDT by noinfringers2
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To: noinfringers2

Nice story about a loving brother... thanks for sharing.


25 posted on 08/13/2013 6:54:51 AM PDT by GOPJ (Sob stories make bad law...)
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To: GOPJ

We’re going to find out, sooner or later, if Abdul will pray, to a smoking crater.


26 posted on 08/13/2013 7:28:32 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Louis Foxwell; GenXteacher
Again Daniel hits the nail on the head. And I also agree with GenXteacher's post # 13.

Orson Scott Card's book series, "Ender's Game", deals with this same moral dilemma, and if you have not yet read it, you should. Although it was written as juvenile fiction, never-the-less it covers very adult concepts (just without any nasty words or porn scenes)which is refreshing to read.

Ender Wiggin, the third in a family of child geniuses, is selected by international military forces to save the world from destruction by an alien force of insect beings. Ender is sent away to an intense Battle training School where they train with war games. Compassion is the theme that runs through Ender's life and is the defining feature of his existence. The reason that he plays the games so well is his ability to understand the enemy and to inspire loyalty. And it is compassion that saves Ender. If not for his compassion he would have been turned into an automaton; he would have become either a killing machine or a power hungry creature. On the other hand, Ender realizes that Ruthlessness is sometimes necessary, but it is a last resort.

So there is conflict in Ender's mind when they tell him that he is to soon become the Commander of Earth's galactic forces against the alien invaders..... you will have to read the book to see how that turns out and you will not be disappointed.

I could not help but think of the parallels of Hiroshima and the agonizing decisions our military had to make to win the war (end the war).

By the way,"Ender's Game" the movie is to be released in November (staring Harrison Ford as a colonel in the International Fleet and the commandant of the Battle School, and Asa Butterfield as Ender. I suggest you read the book before going to see the movie.

27 posted on 08/13/2013 7:33:14 AM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: I cannot think of a name
The reasoning was that it would be better to have Japan totally destroyed and every person killed rather than surrender.

Sounds like the American newspaper business.

28 posted on 08/13/2013 9:49:48 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("Remember... the first revolutionary was Satan."--Russian Orthodox Archpriest Dmitry Smirnov)
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To: I cannot think of a name

Wow, thanks for the info.

Didn’t know about the Emperor’s recording.

The Bushido Japanese have a lot in common with the Mohamedans: Fight to the death; brutalize and randomly murder citizens of occupied lands; torture, maim, and summarily execute prisoners.

If we needed more atomic bombs, I’m certain that they wouldn’t be long in coming, since the proof of concept had been demonstrated three times with two different nuclear fission technologies.

Too bad we don’t have what it takes to do the same to the Mohammedan savages.


29 posted on 08/13/2013 10:51:57 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

An excellent editorial. Disclosure, I wouldn't be here were it not for Truman's decision, both parents would have been occupied elsewhere.

30 posted on 08/13/2013 4:21:42 PM PDT by SJackson ( The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. BF)
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To: Louis Foxwell

as horrible as it was, what the bombing of
Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused to be avoided -
for Japanesae citizens all across Japan, and
for the Japanese homeland, Japanese soldiers
and American soldiers - it constituted
a sacrifice for the greater good


31 posted on 08/13/2013 4:32:00 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Louis Foxwell

because we have refused to take a WWII style approach
to the war in Afghanistan, there is a very good chance
that, in a not very long time, all we have done
may be seem as a sacrifice for naught


32 posted on 08/13/2013 4:35:10 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: oh8eleven

I am not seeing the parallel that Daniel is laying out. Obama is a muslim and his administration is filled with muslims, including his CIA chief, and muslim sympathizers like Hagel and Kerry and the minions working for this administration. Bush 1 & 2 and both Clintons are muslim sympathizers. Hence, a true war against the muslims was never the goal. Infiltration of our highest levels of Govt. has been achieved. The Chaos is upon us. Our troops are cannon fodder who cannot engage the enemy by ORDERS of the PINO. This isn’t about liking or hating - this is willful purposeful Treason.


33 posted on 08/13/2013 6:40:25 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Westbrook

“> The bombs didn’t end the war, a tape recorder did.

Please elaborate.”

That’s easy.

ICTOAN is referring to the recording of the Showa Emperor telling is subjects they must “endure the undendurable” by surrendering to the Allies. I’m not sure what the recording medium was, but it wasn’t a transcript - it was kept from the hands of the pro-war faction and broadcast on radio the following day (or so). It was the first time most of the populace had heard his voice.

ICTOAN is trying to sound knowing and cute all at once. The clear implication is that the Imperial Japanese gave up because their Emperor told them to, not because the Allies were bringing the war home to them; therefore, there was no need to drop the atomic bombs.

Arguments against this interpretation are legion, but are not needed. All we have to do is read the Showa Emperor’s speech. In it, he referred explicitly to the employment by the enemy (US & Allies) of “a new and most cruel bomb.”

The nuclear warheads detonated over Hiroshima and Nagasaki were all of that.


34 posted on 08/15/2013 6:09:11 PM PDT by schurmann
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