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Immigration Reformers, Wake the F Up!
editors.talkingpointsmemo.com ^ | 8/20/13 | John Marshall

Posted on 08/21/2013 7:34:00 AM PDT by cotton1706

I get that it’s difficult for immigration reformers to see and accept the writing on the wall — that reform is likely dead in this Congress. It’s incredibly important for the country as well as for millions of undocumented immigrants whose lives will be directly affected. The bill is in effect being filibustered in the House inasmuch as the bill would almost certainly pass if only John Boehner would only allow it to come for a vote. But pretending this isn’t the case is actually damaging the prospects of reform.

It makes all the tactical and strategic sense in the world to take this out of the confusing arcana of Washington’s intentionally obfuscating procedural maze and put it back into the political realm where it belongs. In other words, stop pretending that the GOP House’s hardening resolve to kill the Senate bill is going to change and take this whole question back to the people looking forward to the 2014 election. There’s a curious elite belief that going into ‘campaign mode’ is somehow dirty or tawdry or that it makes it harder to come up with the compromises necessary for legislation. But that is nonsense.

(Excerpt) Read more at editors.talkingpointsmemo.com ...


TOPICS: Government; Politics
KEYWORDS: aliens
In a case where two sides are working in good faith to achieve compromise, this may be the case, though it’s dubious even then. But that is clearly not the case here. House Republicans have been working for several months to kill the legislation. The only hold up is where to leave the evidence and who to try to blame. On a broader level though, this is what elections are for. It’s the opaque backroom horse trading that is suspect in democratic terms. When the legislative process can’t resolve a question, especially when it seems clear that it is blocking a popular bill, the solution is another election.

So stop pretending that this bill is going to pass and get about the business of explaining to voters who is stopping it from passing or in fact stopping it from even getting a vote. This tends to be something center-left reformers never get. The bill is dead or near dying. Letting this drag on only demoralizes people who think that government can act in the common good because it makes it seem as though the bill is dying of natural causes or some hopeless terminal illness — something tied to the nature of the Congress or the ‘process’ itself.

But that’s deeply misleading and damaging to the prospects of reform ever succeeding. The bill didn’t die. It was killed. So forget the heroic measures to revive it and get about telling the public who killed it and holding them accountable for their actions.

1 posted on 08/21/2013 7:34:00 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: cotton1706
Just to clarify, you included the rest of the article in your first post.

The GOP would be crazy to pass comprehensive immigration reform both in terms of substance and politically. Immigration is not high on the list of most voters. It is really a non-issue that the GOP stupidly gave a high profile and sense of urgency mainly from their corporate paymasters. If CIR passes in any form, it will divide the GOP and depress turnout in 2014.

If the GOP had any integrity, they would speak out about immigration calling for reduced numbers during a period when 20 million Americans are underemployed or unemployed. Protect American jobs for American workers.

2 posted on 08/21/2013 7:41:15 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cotton1706

Screw compromise!

We cannot afford thirty MILLION more illegal Mehhiccans!

The TWENTY MILLION we have already are too much.

Kick ‘em ALL the hell out—no “path to Democratic voter status” WHATSOEVER!


3 posted on 08/21/2013 7:41:18 AM PDT by Flintlock ("The redcoats are coming" -- TO SEIZE OUR GUNS!!--Paul Revere)
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To: cotton1706

Hey Mr. Marshall,

Do you get this excited about key legislation that Harry Reid refuses to bring to the floor for a vote?


4 posted on 08/21/2013 7:43:22 AM PDT by G Larry (Let his days be few; and let another take his office. Psalms 109:8)
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To: cotton1706

Marshall is premature. Boner & Co. have every intention of trying to push a bill through next month.


5 posted on 08/21/2013 7:43:53 AM PDT by montag813 (NO AMNESTY * ENFORCE THE LAW * http://StandWithArizona.com)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: kabar

“Just to clarify, you included the rest of the article in your first post.”

Yes. Thank you. I wanted people to be able to see the full article. I’m in no way a supporter of immigration reform.


7 posted on 08/21/2013 7:46:05 AM PDT by cotton1706
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To: kabar
immigration is not high on the list of most voters

Huh??? If you get away from the DC fog and don't limit your conversation to Chamber of Commerce members and others who benefit from cheap labor it's the NUMBER ONE ISSUE !

It's about jobs and wages for everyone except the elite and public sector benificiaries of invaders being here.

I'm not the only constitutional conservative who will never vote for another Republican again (including those who claim to be with us but can't find a way to stop the invasion) if they don't refuse to stand firm on ending the invasion of the US and sending home invaders. That includes EVerify so they can't be employed!

8 posted on 08/21/2013 7:48:05 AM PDT by grania
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To: kabar

I would argue that, if the GOP had any sense, they would preach the gospel of free private enterprise, the opportunity to create wealth for self and family, and the blessings of liberty in a free capitalist society to the immigrants, legal and otherwise, who are here today.

The vast majority did not come here because we have the most free stuff. They came here to work. They came here to earn enough money to be able to bring other family members to the US of A and to create better lives for their families. They came because America still is known as the land of opportunity.

It’s a shame that the GOP needs to be reminded of this. Instead they are being rope-a-doped into thinking they can only win if they out-democrat the real democrats, and pander better than lifelong panderers. How ridiculous!


9 posted on 08/21/2013 7:49:07 AM PDT by bigbob
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To: cotton1706

though I am a bit gratified that finally it is the left blowing some gaskets over frustration with Boehner


10 posted on 08/21/2013 7:56:09 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: bigbob
I would argue that, if the GOP had any sense, they would preach the gospel of free private enterprise, the opportunity to create wealth for self and family, and the blessings of liberty in a free capitalist society to the immigrants, legal and otherwise, who are here today.

Sadly that will be rejected on delivery by single female voters, minorities, and most of those under 30. We will need a longer-term "hearts and minds" strategy to succeed.


11 posted on 08/21/2013 7:57:54 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: grania
Huh??? If you get away from the DC fog and don't limit your conversation to Chamber of Commerce members and others who benefit from cheap labor it's the NUMBER ONE ISSUE !

Cite me one poll that shows immigration the number one issue. Jobs, the economy, health care, etc are the big issues.

Rasmussen-Importance of Issues Economy, Health Care Continue to Lead List of Important Issues

12 posted on 08/21/2013 8:08:19 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cotton1706

OK AMERICA... DO ANY OF YOU KNOW THAT OUR CURRENT IMMIGRATION LAWS WERE ALL PASSED IN AMNESTY BILLS PASSED BY PAST CONGRESSES? THEY PROMISED ALL THE GOODIES THAT THEY ARE PROMISING TODAY... AND EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY SWORE IT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL... BUT THEY LIED! ANY BILL PASSED WILL BE GRANTING ILLEGALS SUPER STATUS WHILE THE REST OF THE SECURITY SECTIONS WILL BE IGNORED AND DEFUNDED. NO AMNESTY FOR CRIMINAL INVADERS!


13 posted on 08/21/2013 8:14:54 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: bigbob
The vast majority did not come here because we have the most free stuff. They came here to work. They came here to earn enough money to be able to bring other family members to the US of A and to create better lives for their families. They came because America still is known as the land of opportunity.

Poverty

In 2010, 23 percent of immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) lived in poverty, compared to 13.5 percent of natives and their children. Immigrants and their children accounted for one-fourth of all persons in poverty.

The children of immigrants account for one-third of all children in poverty.

Among the top sending countries, poverty is highest for immigrants and their young children from Mexico (35 percent), Honduras (34 percent), and Guatemala (31 percent); and lowest for those from Germany (7 percent), India (6 percent), and the Philippines (6 percent).

Welfare Use

In 2010, 36 percent of immigrant-headed households used at least one major welfare program (primarily food assistance and Medicaid) compared to 23 percent of native households.

Among the top sending countries, welfare use is highest for households headed by immigrants from Mexico (57 percent), Guatemala (55 percent), and the Dominican Republic (54 percent); and lowest for those from Canada (13 percent), Germany (10 percent), and the United Kingdom (6 percent).

Health Insurance Coverage

In 2010, 29 percent of immigrants and their U.S.-born children (under 18) lacked health insurance, compared to 13.8 percent of natives and their children.

New immigrants and their U.S.-born children account for two-thirds of the increase in the uninsured since 2000.

Among the top sending countries, the highest rates of uninsurance are for those from Guatemala (46 percent), Honduras (44 percent), El Salvador (44 percent), and Mexico (41 percent); and lowest for those from Canada (9 percent), Japan (8 percent), and Germany (5 percent).

Many immigrants make significant progress the longer they live in the country. However, on average even immigrants who have lived in the United States for 20 years have not come close to closing the gap with natives.

The poverty rate of adult immigrants who have lived in the United States for 20 years is 50 percent higher than that of adult natives.

The share of adult immigrants who have lived in the United States for 20 years who lack health insurance is twice that of adult natives.

The share of households headed by an immigrant who has lived in the United States for 20 years using one or more welfare programs is nearly twice that of native-headed households.

The share of households headed by an immigrant who has lived in the United States for 20 years that are owner occupied is 22 percent lower than that of native households.

It’s a shame that the GOP needs to be reminded of this. Instead they are being rope-a-doped into thinking they can only win if they out-democrat the real democrats, and pander better than lifelong panderers. How ridiculous!

Immigrants vote 2 to 1 for the Dems. 87% of the 1.2 million LEGAL immigrants who enter annually are minorities as defined by the USG. Thus, they become immediately eligible for affirmative action and minority business set asides.

14 posted on 08/21/2013 8:20:46 AM PDT by kabar
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To: cotton1706

Want to take it to the campaign trail? Be my guest!

I don’t see Americans rioting in the streets over the lack of immigration reform.

I see them ready to riot if the d*mb*ss ruling class keeps walking people over a cliff.

As it stands right now the Vichy republicans won’t even meet their constituents at townhalls for fear of the earful they will get over immigration and all the scandals.

Yeah, take it to the campaign trail! Problem is the Vichy Republicans won’t do it. They’re looking for a way to slip it in unnoticed. B*stards!


15 posted on 08/21/2013 8:37:25 AM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: LibLieSlayer
THEY PROMISED ALL THE GOODIES THAT THEY ARE PROMISING TODAY... AND EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY SWORE IT WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL... BUT THEY LIED!

Sen. Kennedy’s speech to Congress in 1965: “What the bill will not do: First, our cities will not be flooded with a million immigrants annually. Under the proposed bill, the present level of immigration remains substantially the same. [...] Secondly, the ethnic mix of this country will not be upset. [...] Contrary to the charges in some quarters, S. 500 will not inundate America with immigrants from any one country or area [...].”

Lyndon Johnson, upon signing the 1965 Act: "This bill we sign today is not a revolutionary bill. It does not affect the lives of millions. It will not restructure the shape of our daily lives."

From the Free Canada Press (Detailed analysis and quotes):
Under the old system, admission largely depended upon an immigrant's country of birth. Seventy percent of all immigrant slots were allotted to natives of just three countries — United Kingdom, Ireland and Germany — and went mostly unused, while there were long waiting lists for the small number of visas available to those born in Italy, Greece, Poland, Portugal, and elsewhere in eastern and southern Europe.
The new system eliminated the various nationality criteria, supposedly putting people of all nations on an equal footing for immigration to the United States. The new legislation . . . technically, amendments to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952, substituted a system based primarily on family reunification and needed skills.

16 posted on 08/21/2013 9:32:05 AM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Oatka

It opened up the mexican floodgates from hell.

LLS


17 posted on 08/21/2013 9:45:01 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: kabar
cite me one poll....

I'd refer you to the information on the Numbers USA website. The polls that say otherwise just don't reflect how "middle America" feels about the invasion of the US. Keep in mind that these are the voters Repbulican ptb grovel to every time an election comes up and they need votes.

Polls that can be cited are the ones that show Rubio's sharp drop in popularity. The only issue he traitored us on was the invasion of the US, and now conservatives don't even view him as a serious candidate for President.

18 posted on 08/21/2013 10:28:13 AM PDT by grania
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To: grania
I'd refer you to the information on the Numbers USA website. The polls that say otherwise just don't reflect how "middle America" feels about the invasion of the US. Keep in mind that these are the voters Repbulican ptb grovel to every time an election comes up and they need votes.

I work with NumbersUSA and Roy Beck. I know what the polls say. Yes, most Americans are against amnesty once they learn what its impact will be. They are also for lower immigration. The reality is that most Americans, including Hispanics, don't rank the immigration as very high on their list of priorities.

Polls that can be cited are the ones that show Rubio's sharp drop in popularity. The only issue he traitored us on was the invasion of the US, and now conservatives don't even view him as a serious candidate for President.

Never count on the attention span of the American voter to result in a rapid change of views. Rubio is now trying to burnish his conservative cred with health care. He is meeting this week with Zuckerberg, no doubt to get his payoff so he can run in 2016.

The GOP must change course and stop doing the bidding of their corporate paymasters. They need to ditch big business and direct their appeal to the American worker who has been abandoned by both parties. Here is an article I wrote on the subject

19 posted on 08/21/2013 10:42:13 AM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar
The GOP must change course and stop doing the bidding of their corporate paymasters

First of all, thanks for the link to your article. You articulate the situation with illegal immigration wonderfully. As to the statement I quoted above, I agree. Corporate America will do quite well without the Republican Party doing their bidding.

There are two points where we differ. One is concerning the depth of feeling middle and lower-middle class people have against the invasion of the US. We're the people who put up with its negative impact, every day, in our job opportunities and in the threat to neighborhoods, schools, and safety. The issue's about survival, and it's one where the dems are very vulnerable. It's the elite libs who think they know what's best for everyone else propelling the argument in the Democratic Party. The Dem ptb are not in the real world and the 'pubs are too enamored with cheap labor to win those democratic working class votes.

The other issue is that of "immigration reform". We don't need reform. There are plenty of laws on the books, including the ones Obama has ignored or over-ridden. If the laws on the books were enforced, it would stop the invasion of the US.

20 posted on 08/21/2013 12:48:47 PM PDT by grania
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To: grania
First of all, thanks for the link to your article. You articulate the situation with illegal immigration wonderfully. As to the statement I quoted above, I agree. Corporate America will do quite well without the Republican Party doing their bidding.

Legal immigration is actually more of a problem than illegal immigration. The Dems will become the permanent majority party with the status quo on legal immigration. Amnesty just hastens the process.

One is concerning the depth of feeling middle and lower-middle class people have against the invasion of the US. We're the people who put up with its negative impact, every day, in our job opportunities and in the threat to neighborhoods, schools, and safety. The issue's about survival, and it's one where the dems are very vulnerable. It's the elite libs who think they know what's best for everyone else propelling the argument in the Democratic Party. The Dem ptb are not in the real world and the 'pubs are too enamored with cheap labor to win those democratic working class votes.

I have no doubt that is true. Our own polling verifies it. And as a group, blacks are the most adamant about decreasing legal immigration and cracking down on illegals. Their leaders do not reflect that point of view. The problem is that most people are not one issue voters. They will vote what they perceive is in their best interests.

Big government has a big appeal to blacks and Hispanics. They want more free stuff, not less. Lower taxes and limited government do not resonate with them. And when you have Reps like Priebus, Rove, McCain, and Graham calling their fellow Reps racists, it feeds into the branding of the Reps as the party of old, white men.

The other issue is that of "immigration reform". We don't need reform. There are plenty of laws on the books, including the ones Obama has ignored or over-ridden. If the laws on the books were enforced, it would stop the invasion of the US.

There is no doubt that enforcement is key to dealing with illegal immigration, but we need to reform our legal immigration policies so they best serve the interests of the country. We don't need 1.2 million legal immigrants a year, most of whom are poor and uneducated. We need about 300,000 a year as recommended by the Jordan Commission and it should be on a merit based system unlike the kinship system we have today. A policy of pro-immigrant low immigration will be better in terms of assimilation and providing us with the skills we need to be competitive in the global economy.

21 posted on 08/21/2013 1:26:00 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

” . Rubio is now trying to burnish his conservative cred with health care. He is meeting this week with Zuckerberg, no doubt to get his payoff so he can run in 2016.

The GOP must change course and stop doing the bidding of their corporate paymasters. They need to ditch big business and direct their appeal to the American worker who has been abandoned by both parties.”

B U M P


22 posted on 08/21/2013 4:15:25 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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To: kabar

A+ on the article.


23 posted on 08/21/2013 4:19:22 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (The only people in the world who fear Obama are American citizens. KILL THE BILL!)
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