Skip to comments.Why Sukkot Is Yeshua’s Real Birthday [Today!]
Posted on 09/22/2013 5:26:16 PM PDT by Errant
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14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The bold section of verse 17 is Paul verifying that the feasts are shadows of things yet to come. However, that wasn't the reason of this message here. Paul is telling the Colossians not to follow the made up rules of man - this is exactly what the Messiah taught the disciples to do. Yeshua even set out to break the rules of the Pharisees (e.g., healing on Sabbath, Wine out of holy water, etc.) intentionally. One reason was to bring attention to the very specific command of the Almighty: not to add to or take away from HIS commandments, and to let everyone know they were wrong to do so.
I will stand on what Christ has said that He did....He freed us from the bondage of sin and death..and that included the requirements of the Jewish Law....which was fully and completely met in Him.
IF we could keep the Old Testament law ourselves, we wouldn’t need Christ.... But no man could..... And so Christ went to the cross and redeemed us from the curse of the law. He became a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who hangeth on a tree.”
If we are truly saved, we are not condemned by the laws that God gave to Israel. ....Jesus took care of that—it was the whole point of His life, death and resurrection..... If His atonement was sufficient (and it was) then the Old Testament law holds no condemnation for us. Jesus Himself told us very clearly in Matthew chapter 2
Christians do not celebrate pagan feasts.....and neither do I. So you are assuming that which isn’t so....I do not live by Jewish Law...which was given to the Jewish People..and which they could not satisfy...no man can.
Again... God knew man would fail and thus sent His son to have victory over what man could not do himself....Jesus fulfilled ALL the requirements of the Jewish Law...there is no mistake about that..... To say otherwise means His life, death, burial and resurrection did not satisfy Gods redemption for man.....and thus man has no hope... for if you sin in one of the least of the commandments you are guilty of them all...
We are fully redeemed by the righteous fullfillment of the Law in Christ.... or we are doomed...there is no middle line.
>> “Christians do not celebrate pagan feasts.....and neither do I” <<
I took your remark to mean that you celebrate Christmas, and Easter, which are definitely pagan feasts that have no relationship to Yeshua whatsoever.
Yeshua fulfilled the spring feasts, and the intermediate fulfillment of Sukkot. He also fulfilled the prophecies of the Lamb of God that paid the sins of the world.
Torah is not fulfillable, since it is just a set of cammandments. Yeshua stated that Torah is to be unchanged until all things are fulfilled and his enemies are made his footstool. That is yet to happen, as Satan prwesently rules the world, and Yeshua’s millenial reign has yet to begin. Also the First Resurrection is yet to come, and will happen at the last trump of Yom Teruah as Paul pointed out in 1Thessalonians.
The rest of your post creates your own Bible, and is thus unaddressable.
Shepherds in the fields?
They couldn't -- they hadn't given birth to Algore yet!
Again, the Almighty's commandments and the Takanot/Ma'asim (laws) of the Rabbis are not one in the same. The latter can be safely ignored, disregard the former and your on your own.
=) Then why did you join the thread?
IMHO Jesus’ birth lines up with Channukah — The Festival of Lights. The Festivals do seem to line up with major events in history/Jesus’ life, but I don’t believe Sukkot is His birth event, I think it is an end of time event....which culminates with the Feast of Trumpets.
It is an amazing fulfillment of prophecy and well worth the time to research thoroughly.
Yep, but unlikely in the middle of winter (i.e., Dec 25th).
ALL of the Jewish feasts mandated in the bible are either prophetic telling what will someday happen or in remembrance of events concerning Christ which have already happened. They are part of Gods regularly scheduled events to keep us fully aware of Christ and major events concerning Him.
It is extremely unfortunate that the Romans wanted to replace all of Gods mandated feasts with ‘holy’ days of their own creation thereby impacting us on exactly what He wants us to remember.
It is important that the Roman Catholic church has replaced Gods mandated feats with their own devised ‘holy’ days attempting to destroy all things Jewish in an effort to convert the world to their own belief system.
Those specific feasts mandated by God are extremely important in keeping us reminded of Gods specific plan of salvation of man by allowing us to celebrate those very specific events.
Actually, the Romans didn’t celebrate anything at the winter solstice (as in sunny Italy, and the Mediterranean region, winter isn’t very fearsome), until about AD 180, when already about at least 25% of the Empire were Christians. It’s true that the pagans of the far north (Germany, Scandanavia, British Isles) did celebrate solstice celebrations, however, they were not in the Empire, and had different pagan beliefs...hence their practices didn’t affect the Romans, pagan or Christian.
In about AD 180 an emperor switched a holiday to the Roman sun god, “Sol Invictus” from summertime to 25 Dec...and no one really knows why. One reason though, could of been to paganize an already existing Christian holiday.
Shepherds watching flocks is easy. Biblical Archeological Review has had articles showing evidence for a permanent flock in and around Bethlehem—to supply the Temple, ALL YEAR ROUND for their daily sacrifices. This is different from traditional bedouin herds of today, or roaming herds in previous eras.
Just as today near Jerusalem, not every December night is ice cold either (though many are)....so its entirely plausible that shepherds (a totally despised, outcast, almost-homeless group at the time of Jesus) would be out-of-doors watching the Temple-supply flocks—at any time of year.
In the 1600s a Puritan scholar—who, as was typical of the day, was certain ANYTHING the Roman Catholic church did was evil....came up with the theory that Christmas (which Puritans actually made illegal to celebrate) was really a wicked pagan holiday, which the corrupt & wiley Roman Catholics Christianized.
Today we know a lot more about ancient Rome, and we know that: a) solstice holidays were not traditionally Roman or Greek and, b)the Sol Invictus holiday, on the 25th of Dec., didn’t become that...until AFTER Christianity was a major religion in the Roman empire.
Therefore it is entirely plausible that celebrating Jesus birthday came first....and the pagans tried to stop such practices by the despised (and often low class, slaves & servants) Christians, by making it into a pagan holiday, NOT visa-versa.
And yes, I’m well aware that after the time of Constantine, (from the early 300s on) it was common to convert pagan temples into churches. I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily either....as I’m sure they were big buildings, in central locations—and they stopped pagan worship that way too.
I just get tired of all the people that like to jump up and down to try to “prove” ancient Christian traditions are all somehow wrong (or even evil) as I do not think that serves the gospel of Jesus Christ well....when Christians are always trying to point at other Christians saying “YOU’RE WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! IN MY LITTLE CHURCH WE’RE SO MUCH SMARTER THAN YOU!!! NAH NAH NAH!”
Does anyone know for sure when Jesus birthday really was? NO. Every theory has its problems. For all the arrogance of traditionalism though, non-traditionalism is as arrogant or more...
Unless one can build an air-tight case from holy Scripture against traditional celebrations and dates—I believe it is important to honor existing Christian holidays.
The dating of Christmas, to me, is an affirmation of life beginning at conception: born at Tabernacles; CONCEIVED at Christmas, when He began to dwell among us.
Because it is THAT Yashua was born not the importance of when he was born.
Never equated Zeus with Yashua -Because it is THAT Yashua was born not the importance of when he was born.
Once in a while I like to throw in a “huh’ ha?” - keeps people on their toes and get them to loosen up a bit, makes them stop and think a second before they see the humor in it.
I kinda threw that in to liven things up a bit.
Every once in a while a bit of humor has to be injected in order to lighten things up a bit and not get too serious. Just about every Christian and Jew knows that Yashua wasn’t born on the 25th. of December. The early Christians took that date because it was a pagan holiday and wanted to have a definite remembrance of the birth of Christ. All evidence points to sometime in the fall. The whole point is not when He was born but That He was born to save mankind from sin; that those that truly believe in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.
Wow! That's really going to play havoc with my Nativity scene. ;)
I’m guessing you like to perform a barrel roll now and then for the same reason? lol
We will be celebrating the Feast Of Booths when He reigns for a thousand years. I always thought He could have been born on Oct 31 since Satan has made it a celebration of death and fear.
Resurrection Day is my favorite Holy Day. Our Wounded Warriors celebrate their alive day. Not the same but precious none the less.
But when I do, I never inform my passengers right after beverage service.
In truth.....life begins ‘before conception’ in the mind and heart of God....He knows all men before their conception and birth......”Before I formed you in the womb I knew you”.... Jeremiah 1:5
...Christmas celebration is all about Jesus Christ....The name Christmas would have no meaning without Christ...and since He is God in the flesh He has no beginning or end...He is the Alpha and Omega....
The Old Testament is all about ‘He’s Coming’...the Gospels are all about ‘He’s Here’....and the rest is “He’s Coming Again”.
The entire Bible is all about Jesus....from the beginning to the end.
The feasts are not necessary for one to find favor with God...nor does celebrating them affect our Salvation or standing with God. It is through Christ's finished work we stand before Him...it is through Jesus we have Peace with God.
When we ‘add’ requirements we make His sacrifice incomplete..and thereby insufficient....which completely opposes HIS 'finished'work on our behalf.
We celebrate Christmas for the Joy that HE came and lived among us....’Emmanuel’.
I remain standing on the facts .....Christians do not celebrate Christmas as a pagan holiday....it is celebrated as Jesus Christ entering our world .........We celebrate Easter as His resurrection from the dead. It is really not a complicated issue as some want to make it.
Sorry you can’t seem to grasp this and somehow desire to say otherwise... because without Christ there is no Christmas nor Easter.
Some here seem very much set to discredit these events.....rather than focus on the Savior they are caught up in dates and times...which always will distract from the ‘centrality’ of Christ and the relationship we have with Him and He with us......Christ within us is our hope....not dates, times, and seasons.
Shepherds kept sheep ‘year around’....for the temple sacrifices....didn’t matter what the seasons were..they still had to tend them night and day.
Again...’All’ of the Law was fulfilled in Jesus Christ...not in part but the whole...otherwise we are obligated to keep all of the Law, not just knit pick what any sect or denomination wants to select. The Law is not open for smorgasboard picking.....for any who sin in one of the least of the commandments is guilty of them all....and why all stand guilty before God...no exceptions apart from Christ within us of and by His good Spirit He promises and freely gives.
Whatever Laws you choose, and others might choose to follow or not...this places one back into ‘bondage under the law’ legalism. Galations speaks clearly about this.
Best to choose the following...
1 Corinthians 1:23,24......” But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block,”.....
1 Corinthians 2:2 ..........”For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ”...
Pretending to be celebrating a false holiday called christmas on the birthdate of tammuz does not fool Yehova.
He provided a day to celebrate his son entering this world, and it is called Sukkot, and is one of the feasts that are commandede for all of the nations. The penalty for changing it is severe.
There is no “christmas” or “Easter” in the kingdom of Yehova. They detract from the worship of his son. Those that honor those pagan days will pay the price prescribed in his word
It is not optional.
BTW I will capitalize Christmas as it is most deserving of...after all the His name is much deserving as is this Holiday we celebrate His arrival.
Using the word “pretending” LOL...can't help but chuckle....’no pretend’ about celebrating His Birth...Christians indeed do celebrate His birth Dec 25th...some would do well to take note that that date also attracts and gives opportunity to speak to the unsaved who also celebrate at this time...we see people come to the Lord during this time...it's a wonderful occasion for both saved and unsaved....the whole world "lights" up for Christ's coming weather they believe or not...He is greatly honored then...just as every knee will one day bow 'saved or not'..all will bow before our King and declare Him Lord.
"There is 'now' no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"...
Jesus fulfilled the righteous requirements of the Law...we have nothing whatsoever righteous to bring...it is ALL His work of Grace in and through us.
We know law was given so that ‘man could see’ the condition of his relationship with God was broken.... To be acceptable to Him, we must be perfect, holy and righteous.... ‘The law shows just how imperfect, unholy and unrighteous we really are’..... It served that purpose and serves that purpose even today.
For..... “all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.”.... (Isaiah 64:6)
The Law Only Condemns...it ‘never’ gives life....it was established to shame and condemn us ‘by pointing out’ our faults, our guilt, our sins....... It is supposed to stop us from bragging about how good we are and to show us how desperately we need God’s mercy....or if a Christian to be ever grateful for the “price” HE paid and that we are no longer under the law but under Grace.
It took the law to break through our stubborn pride and lead us to Jesus Christ for salvation....the law was put in charge ‘to lead us to Christ’ that we might be ‘justified by faith’. ......Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law......but under His Grace. (Galatians 3:23-25)
Though the law was specifically given to the Israelites, we Gentiles have our own version of it written on our hearts.... That’s so ‘everyone’ can recognize their spiritual condition and their need for God’s gift through His Son....
....”Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,... even though they do not have the law,... since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,... their consciences also bearing witness,... and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. (Romans 2:14-15)
We all, both Jew and Gentile alike, know what it is that God desires for us. ...He wants all of us to have eternal life with Him. .....And to do that, we have to be perfectly righteous and completely sinless..... The law ‘leads us to Jesus Christ’ who is the only One who can make that become a reality.
For Ephesians 2:8-9 proclaims clearly...
“For it is BY GRACE you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast.....
Christ is ‘the end of the law’ so that there may be righteousness ‘for everyone who believes’. (Romans 10:4)
The word “christmas” is blasphemy to begin with, but doing it on 12-25 is a direct assault on the God-hood of Yehova.
You have created a false religion in your desire to please the world rather than Yehova.
Your “jesus” is imaginary and all-encompassing, and not in any way related to Yehova’s son Yeshua.
Love a lie if you if you wish - not me...
<...”The word christmas is blasphemy”...>
<...”a false religion”...>
<...”jesus” is imaginary “...>
I will pray for you.
<...”The words I presented to you in #84, are found in the last chapter; of the last book; of the last testament”...>
I know exactly where it is from....you omitted the context of that verse...this speaks of the unsaved..not the saved.
Blessed are those who wash their robes.....(this we have through the finished work of Christ who “washed us clean” from sin)..... ‘They’ will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life.
It is by His blood we are free to enter...nothing we do can gain entrance through the gate...He IS the gate.
No, it is a warning for all. Those who love a lie, yet claim to be saved, and in Messiah, are lying to themselves and failing to follow His commandment. The outcome was reiterated by Messiah in the last chapter of the Bible. They will be left outside the gate.
The KJV reads: 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments
In any regard, it pertains to how you are living your life (i.e., following His commandments).
Do you honestly believe someone can proclaim to be in Christ then go commit iniquities such as murder, stealing, lying, and other wickedness; then walk straight through that narrow gate the Messiah spoke of?
By their fruits you shall know them...
Pray for yourself!
It’s you that has not yet met our savior Yeshua HaMashiach
The words “it is finished” are the traditional pronouncement of the Cohen Gadol after sacrificing the passover.
That is all that those words from the savior refered to, paying the price of sin. “Everything” is not finished.
His enemies have not yet been made his footstool.
His elect have not yet been resurrected to the sea of fire and glass.
The marriage supper has not been held.
Satan has not been chained in the abyss.
He has not returned to Earth with his elect to subdue his enemies.
He has not yet built his temple.
He has not yet reigned for 1000 years.
Satan has not been released from the abyss for a short season.
Yeshua has not yet subdued Satan’s final rebellion at the end of the 1000 years.
Torah is still fully in effect until those tasks are completed.
Enjoy your irresponsible liesure, while it lasts.
I was well aware of your gambit the moment that I read it.
I am aware of the posting habits of those that I consider “part of the solution!” ;o)
Thanks for the understanding. Sometime people here have their knickers in a twist and can’t see the humor. Always looking at the dots from inside the box.
We sin every day Errant......no one is exempt from that this side of heaven.....it’s about ‘yielding’ to His direction as His Spirit leads us...that is ‘a walk of faith, trust, and loving Him just as He has asked us to...of which there is no Law.
Yes,.. All sin is forgiven in and through Christ... those who know this understand what that cost was, and is, for this forgiveness....further it is out of our Love for Him that we follow Him....not a set of rules and regulations or a check list that could never make us acceptable to Him..for they only point to our failures....and when we do fail we can enter His throne room ‘of Grace’ where He is ready and willing to forgive.
That does not mean we will not suffer here on earth for the choices we make which oppose His will for us. But when it comes our time to go with Him..yes... the slate remains clean ....for we stand before God thru Christ...it is ‘Christ’s righteousness’ before God that is credited to us us...never our own...and why we will have the place in Heaven He has prepared for us, just as He said Hew would do.
... I rejoice in Him for that, as do most Christians who know that it ‘His Grace’...and ‘His Mercy’ that has brought us safely this far in life..and it will be that same Grace and Mercy that will see us safely Home to be with Him.
<...”Everything is not finished”....>
We are talking about the penalty for sin...and yes that is a done deal........”there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..... For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you ‘free from the law of sin and of death’......And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you......”
“Who then is the one who condemns?... No one..... Christ Jesus who died...more than that, who was raised to life...is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.....neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 8
Furthermore.... since we are no longer under a theocratic system of government (government ruled by strict religious law), the ‘judicial’ aspect of the law is not in effect....... and because the priestly/sacrificial system of the Old Testament ‘pointed to Christ’, and Christ fulfilled the sacrificial system by dying on the cross, that aspect of the law is no longer in effect either.
The moral part of the law is based ‘on the character of God’ and can never be done away with. It is always wrong to lie, cheat, and steal.