Skip to comments.Mark Levin still promoting an Article V convention. Why?
Posted on 09/25/2013 9:05:21 PM PDT by JOHN W K
I heard Mark Levin this evening once again encouraging the call for an Article V convention purportedly to restore our constitutionally limited system of government. What Mark Levin does not caution his listening audience about is, that we the people, ordinary productive American Citizens, would not be in charge of that convention. In fact, Mark Levins Article V Convention if called would be controlled by the very people who now cause our miseries which are the various state Legislatures and Governors who work in concert with our federal government to enslave and plunder the wealth which Americas businesses, industries and productive working people have produced.
Is it not true that such a convention, which Madison specifically warned against, would provide the legal opportunity to make constitutional the tyranny and unconstitutional acts which our federal and state governments now rain down upon the people? This fact is indisputable, and yet, Mark Levin is insistent on calling such a convention. Why?
In addition, Mark Levin promotes, with one of his liberty amendments, a perpetuation of taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes which is the very source of power now used to enslave Americas businesses, industries and laboring class people. Why does he not promote our Constitutions original tax plan, and especially its rule of apportionment for any general tax laid among the States which was part of the Great Compromise of the Convention of 1787? Why is it that Mark Levin, who constantly embraces the wisdom of our Founding Fathers, ignores their wisdom when it comes to taxation?
And, why is it that Mark Levin likewise ignores the wisdom of our Founding Fathers when it comes to the existing Federal Reserve System and Federal Reserve Notes having been made a legal tender for all debts public and private which was specifically forbidden by our founding fathers, and is the second tool used by our folks in government to plunder the real material wealth created by Americas businesses, industries and laboring class people?
Why is it that Mark Levin gets it wrong when it comes to the honest money and honest taxing system our founding fathers wrote into our Constitution, and prefers to keep todays corrupted tax and money system alive and in the hands of folks in government? Try calling Marks show to ask him these questions and see how far you get!
In closing, let me once again remind you of what James Madison had to say with regard to calling an Article V Convention which was proposed to be called shortly after our existing Constitution was ratified. He wrote:
You wish to know my sentiments on the project of another general Convention as suggested by New York. I shall give them to you with great frankness .3. If a General Convention were to take place for the avowed and sole purpose of revising the Constitution, it would naturally consider itself as having a greater latitude than the Congress appointed to administer and support as well as to amend the system; it would consequently give greater agitation to the public mind; an election into it would be courted by the most violent partisans on both sides; it wd. probably consist of the most heterogeneous characters; would be the very focus of that flame which has already too much heated men of all parties; would no doubt contain individuals of insidious views, who under the mask of seeking alterations popular in some parts but inadmissible in other parts of the Union might have a dangerous opportunity of sapping the very foundations of the fabric. Under all these circumstances it seems scarcely to be presumable that the deliberations of the body could be conducted in harmony, or terminate in the general good. Having witnessed the difficulties and dangers experienced by the first Convention which assembled under every propitious circumstance, I should tremble for the result of a Second, meeting in the present temper of America, and under all the disadvantages I have mentioned. .I am Dr. Sir, Yours Js. Madison Jr ___See Letters of Delegates to Congress: Volume 25 March 1, 1788-December 31, 1789, James Madison to George Turberville
Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to Americas future Prosperity ___ from Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan, no longer in print.
Sorry to be a cynic, but this will NEVER, EVER happen.
At least half of our population are takers and low-information. They have no concept of what freedom is.
Not only does a new Const. Convention of any kind scare me...but also the continuance of any type of income tax
For the first 140 yrs our country raised revenue mainly thru TARIFFS. Now..everyone wants to keep Marxist progrssive income taxes
It is not a general convention. It is a convention for the purposes of proposing amendments to the Constitution. The State Legislatures would organize and set up the convention. Once set up they would suggest amendments to the constitution. They then send those to the state legislatures where 3/4 must pas that amendment.
It Is simply a process to bypass the Federal Legislature and the DC beltway.
Not only will it NEVER EVER happen ... most Americans don’t want limited government. You think we’re Liberal now? Try this. America may be dying but let’s not commit suicide.
I don’t understand why people think an an Article 5 convention means suddenly everyone turns conservative.
Does anyone believe that Obama would ever let this happen?
This Article 5 stuff WILL NOT come to fruition for these four reasons:
1) Marxist Dems
2) Establishment Republicans
3) Obama’s Liberal/State Run Media
4) Low-Information idiot voters
Wake up, our country is gone. What Levin proposes is our last chance and if you listen to him you should know that what he is talking about is starting the process of presenting amendments and opening the dialogue to actually do something!
We don’t have to stick to the ones he proposes completely, we should be supporting him with constructive arguments instead of sniping. Remember, since Obama entered the white house, there have been tens of thousands of new regulations that have negated or rewritten the constitution and control every aspect of our lives.
Mark is not proposing a new constitutional convention. Article V is another way to add amendments to the constitution. A convention would only be called to propose amendments, not a new Constitution and would still require ratification from 3/4 of the state legislatures on each amendment. So, you either really don’t understand what Mark is proposing or you are choosing to misrepresent it. Try reading the book.
Having the State Legislatures call state conventions, and the state conventions propose amendments, does not “open up” the Constitution one whit more than when CONGRESS proposes an amendment to the Constitution.
As corrupt as the American people have become, leftist amendments would have NO CHANCE of getting the votes of 3/5 of the state legislatures.
This is a bunch of negativism from someone who gives no evidence of having read Levin’s book.
Simply repeal amendments 1-27, create a brand new amendment that simply says "Article V of the U.S. Constitution is hereby repealed and this change shall be permanent and eternal", and all remaining Constitutional laws will be EXACTLY as the founders created them in 1789, and stay that way as long as America exists.
Presto! No more evil demonic efforts to add stuff to the Constitution that the founders didn't have in place when they ratified the thing. Of course, slavery will be legal and we won't have a couple things like now take for granted like freedom of speech and trial by jury, but oh well! The U.S. Constitution was obviously PERFECT except for that pesky part about allowing non-founders to amend it!
My state NC was purple, we voted Obama into office in 08. in 2012 we voted Romney and also ushered in a supermajority of republicans in the legislature and a repub governor for the first time since reconstruction! Things can change for the better very quickly you ALL need to stop being so negative. what the hell is wrong with you people???
Why? Because he’s trying to sell a book.
I don’t see why a convention would be needed to “re-new” the constitution. By holding a convention we’re admitting the old constitution is gone.
Levin made his point, he should highlight WHY he thinks we should do those things and start pushing this convention crap to the side.
I knew there was a chance this convention nonsense would take center stage over the issues he was trying to highlight.
Here’s my take.
What is the difference between the government acting unconstitutionally with impunity, which they do, and them re-writing the constitution to make their activities constitutional?
Both are the same. We are still getting screwed. Grumbling about how unconstitutional something is does not actually stop the SCOTUS from giving it the thumbs up, and the feds enforcing it.
This has been the point Mark has addressed over and over, “what if the state legislatures vote to repeal the 2nd Amendment! Or put conservatives in camps! Or make homosexual instruction mandatory for 6 year olds!”
Well, then its over. If that happens, then we know we have lost America for good, and it’s time to start looking somewhere else.
But the facts are, we have some good state legislative bodies across the nation. North Dakota, Texas, Arkansas, South Carolina, North Carolina. These people are much more accountable to their constituents than the Washington class are. They’re much easier to lobby and coerce into doing what we want, and because they’re not high profile, they are easier races to win.
I personally find fault with Mark’s strategy in the very tough journey to getting a majority big enough to initiate this. That is a lot of legislatures we have to work on, many in states with rife corruption.
In spite of this, I see exactly where Mark is coming from. What is your proposal? Send more conservatives to Washington and hopefully one day we’ll have enough in the House, enough in the Senate, and one in the WH to save America? It sounds good, and by all means we should never stop hammering away at it, to knock off rats and RINOS whenever we can, but even when we elect 10 conservatives, only 3 ever end up being solid. Look at Flake, and Boozman. These two jackasses ran as conservatives. Now one is a McCain love-interest and the other is a slimy Obamacare operative.
I don’t see a problem with continuing our fight in Washington, but also paying close attention to the states and what role they could play, what powers they really have. Remember, the Founders intended the states to be a line of defense against government tyranny. Mark is right in saying we should use it if we can.
“By holding a convention were admitting the old constitution is gone.”
The government is about to force you to buy something, courtesy of John Roberts, and not just something, but a particularly crappy something.
Does it sound like the constitution is still here?
> “What Mark Levin does not caution his listening audience about is, that we the people, ordinary productive American Citizens, would not be in charge of that convention. In fact, Mark Levins Article V Convention if called would be controlled by the very people who now cause our miseries which are the various state Legislatures and Governors who work in concert with our federal government to enslave and plunder the wealth which Americas businesses, industries and productive working people have produced.”
The Tea Party swept the statehouses with more gains than anyone can remember.
Conservatives control far more states than liberals. Each state gets a chance to ratify an amendment. New York and California get the same weight as South Carolina and Oklahoma. No way in the world will liberals control the amendment process.
Note that 38 states are required to ratify an amendment. Only 13 are required to block.
It is the liberals that are worried about what conservatives can do with Article V, not the other way around.
This piece of hysterical commentary is just more of the same old guard panic trying to get the public to fear imaginary monsters in the attic.
Half our Senators are closet Democrats.
How many states joined with Cruz on the floor?
There is your answer.
Separation of church and state, is that in any of the amendments or the original constitution? NO. it was added by a supreme court ruling back in the 30’s or 40’s.
Obamacare? what amendment was that? it now controls 1/6 of our economy and uses the IRS as enforcers. EPA? DOE? DHS? Which amendments do they fall under? they each make new rules EVERY day. The dems figured out that they can work around the constitution. But the states can knock the stool out from under them if they band together.
I hate to say it, but you're probably right.
What? Senators don’t vote to ratify amendments! They are irrelevant.
I thought you were smarter than that.
It’s not a constitutional convention, its the states conferencing to offer amendments! You all need to read the book and listen to his show. There’s a difference and any amendment would have to be accepted by 34 states.
When 90% of them are liberal and pretend Republican, then they probably are irrelevant
If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, (i.e., the "business cycle") the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered ___ attributed to Thomas Jefferson
If the America People do not rise up and defend their existing Constitution and the intentions and beliefs under which it was adopted, who is left to do so but the very people it was designed to control and regulate?
America will not regain her honor and splendor until the blood of tyrants is made to flow in our streets.
Not only does a new Const. Convention of any kind scare me...but also the continuance of any type of income tax
Why does this scare you! State of Texas introduces a Constitutional Amendment passes it through their legislature then after it passes it goes to another state. The Amendment can not be ratified unless 2/3 of the States pass it! If the Amendment doesn’t get enough States it dies!!!
John, This is a last resort because we have to use the last resort. Do you honestly think that the federal government will EVER disembowel itself? Grow a brain. Levin is over the target, leave this to the patriots and go back to your latest issue of the New Yorker.
The Constitutional Convention wasn’t a Constitutional Convention. It was held to amend the Articles of Confedration. Instead, they closed their meetings to the public and started from scratch.
Oh. By the way. The Articles of Confederation had a much tougher ratification process to amend it. It required both Congress and EVERY State Legislature to approve changes. . .
They threw that out, too.
What Levin proposes is the last and only remaining chance we have.
If the states will not take back their power and control this leviathan, then the leviathan is going to eat us whole.
It’s this, or something much, much worse.
I suggest you embrace it.
He doesn’t need the money. You are both wrong.
I dont understand why people think an an Article 5 convention means suddenly everyone turns conservative
At the end of your first paragraph I was convinced I was reading Karl Rove talking about Ted Cruz's efforts to defund Obamacare. They God for your second paragraph or I would remain deceived.
The tax code being important is like rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. Yeah its a problem but bigger fish need to be fried first. That’s probably why he ignores the tax issues you bring up.
The leviathan is going to collapse and when it does, we’ll need the Constitution to fall back upon.
Open it up to a Con-Con now, and they will assemble a convention, close its doors and draft something that you won’t like, and then structure it in a way that rams it down our throats ala Obamacare.
The result will be a civil war.
Anybody arguing for an Art. V convention must, MUST first answer the following questions:
Where are the people with the wisdom of the founders who’ll run this thing, and how do they get elected to be the delegates?
No. CONGRESS must call an Art V (read it) and when it calls the convention complete with a set of rules of its own making on what can be proposed, who’s going to stop them? The same powers that stop the Supreme Court from making law from the bench? The same powers that are, right this second, preventing the President from selectively enforcing laws?
CONGRESS also gets to decide how the Convention is ratified (by State Legislatures or State Conventions) (Read Art V.) When they do so in such a way as to get what they want passed, who’s going to stop them?
You won’t get liberty amendments from an Art V. convention. You’ll get liberal ones. If you get a convention, you will also surely get a war.
You might be interested to know that Bastiat’s “The Law” he equated protection with slavery and grouped three plundering isms of communism, socialism and protectionism together.
Actually 10 of the states' delegates were authorized to revise the Constitution. The Constitutional convention in Philadelphia in 1787 was in no way a "rogue" or "runaway" convention which is, of course not possible when the proposed amendments created by any Article V convention must be passed by three quarters of the states sitting either in convention or by their legislatures.
Indeed they did close the doors to the convention proceedings, and thank God they did so or we would today be operating without our Constitution, probably in some state of tyranny, quite possibly a series of divided nations, and probably without the accretions of the Southwest, Louisiana purchase, Hawaii and Alaska.
The results of the Constitutional convention were submitted to the states for vigorous debate and ratification or rejection. The framers of the Constitution and some of those who participated in the convention and who opposed the proposed Constitution vigorously debated its passage in The Federalist Papers. For us political junkies it must've been one of the great exciting times in the political history of America to be able to participate in that debate which raged all across the country. The revolution was vindicated by this debate.
The results of the Constitutional convention were accepted only on the stipulation that they would be modified by the Bill of Rights which was properly accomplished, evidence that the 1787 Constitution was firmly under the control of the states.
The lesson is that you have a choice, you can continue by passivity to watch your children's destiny lapse into a state of tyranny imposed by a class of elites operating increasingly insulated from public accountability or you can do what the Founding Fathers did: fix it and trust the people to accept or reject it.
I would guess Levin is pushing this because:
1. He thinks it is an emergency and this is the only way to reverse the DC usurpation of the Constitution.
2. He knows the threat of this, even just some state legislatures start voting for such a convention, might bring the federal government to heel and get it to stop trying to be a national government.
3. He know that if anything terrible comes out of such a convention, it would still have to go through a very tough ratification process.
4. He wrote a book and has a financial interest in seeing moves in the direction of a constitutional convention.
My own guess is that the last is not very important to Levin. The others probably are.
He is really down on the GOPe now ,for picking losers like Romney and GWB. And his reflections on GWB are all negative. That Bush was this big spending RINO and he said we keep losing because GOPe keeps picking Romneys as ‘electable’
Except my memory is a bit longer than his drones is.
Levin didnt say that about Romney during 2012 primary nor the Bush stuff during his presidency. In fact he was quite positive about Bush till the last few years.
He was quite enthused about both those two at the times he cite were so wrong.
But now he talks like a biblical prophet who warned us all at the time(s) about these two , so believe him now because he knows.
In fact today he was citing How Sen Coburn told him he was reading his latest book. But wait, Coburn is one of those cowards who are against shutting down the government in attempt to force Reid and Obama to defund Obama-care., according to Mark
But today Coburn is a hero. He likes Mark;s book.
Typical AM talk radio entertainment.
You have to understand why the federal gov’t is out of control. the co-equal branches were supposed to be a check on each other. They were supposed to be in competition enough not to let the others get something over on them.
What they discovered is that the opposite is also true. If nobody enforces the rules on the other, then they all get to act like heathens. It’s a horrible way to govern a free people, but a wonderful way to line your pockets and abuse all the power you can drink.
Seriously, do you really believe an Art. V convention that requires Congress to intervene both to call one and to choose the means of ratification, is going to put a check on that? The 16th and 17th Amendments put the state legislatures in their place. Washington isn’t about to let that go by the wayside without a fight. Without a war.
I agree that the hour is running late, and I agree that restoring our government rests with the states. We don’t need a con-con for that. We just need our state gov’t’s to man up and tell the leviathan, no.
As has been said, conservatives are making inroads into state gov’t. The day is coming, very soon, when the states, first in ones and then in groups, tell the fedgov, “Come and make me.”
My point wasn’t to malign our founders. Just the opposite! My point was this: show me those patriots today and tell me how THEY get selected for the Art V Convention.
I don’t see it.
No they won’t.
They don’t have any say in it.
Anything being brought up has to be agreed upon long before even being brought up.
You need to read the book or listen to Levin.
He knows, you don’t.
This whole thread is populated by willful ignoramuses. You can’t talk sense to them, you can’t reason with them, you can’t educate them.
The most profitable thing you can do with them is totally ignore them.
I just think it’s a shame that they have been able to get a toehold here on FR, which is not normally a nest of lazy, ignorant, defeatist, tinfoil hatters.
An Art V convention will play out on Washington’s turf. Read Art V and see that Congress’ stamp is all over it.
The States simply telling Washington, “no.” will produce a much better result. The States, by lack of compliance, is the last check on the leviathan.
Far better than a con-con is this: I’d love to see one or more states pass a law that any income tax destined for the IRS or fedgov must first be remitted to the State Capitol and then the State Legislature will deem what portion of it should be passed along to Washington. Add language to arrest any IRS agent attempting to thwart the will of a Sovereign state.
An Amendment Convention of the States is the very method devised by the Founders whereby the States can say NO to the Leviathan.
Why would n you not want them to do that? It’s the only way the States can speak that the Leviathan is bound to honor.
You must be joking. It's like admitting that you like masturbation better than the real thing.
I’m neither tin-foil hatted nor defeatist.
The thought that you can get to an honest process to correct decades of dishonest adherence to the Constitution seems more tinfoil to me. That particular deck of cards is rigged. Congress will set the terms of an Art V convention and the Supreme Court (if it even got that far) will agree.
It’s a logical disconnect that you can correct decades of willfully ignoring the Constitution by forcing the very same people ignoring it to faithfully execute new amendments that they won’t similarly ignore. And that’s if you even get to liberty amendments instead of the far more likely liberal ones.
An Art V Convention will produce a bastardization of the Constitution that will and can only be corrected by war.
If that war is what we want, then bring it on. But that’s where this road leads.
Articles of Impeachment needs to come first.
Unless elected officials are held accountable for their malfeasance, any change to the Constitution is useless. The establishment politicians will just ignore it.
Congress has nothing to say about the "terms" of an Article V Convention. Not a single thing.
An Art V Convention will produce a bastardization of the Constitution that will and can only be corrected by war.
Only in your mind. Your comments indicate to me that you have no idea how an Article V Amendment Convention originates, is set up or is run.
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