Skip to comments.Mainstream baffled as French turn to far right
Posted on 10/15/2013 4:40:47 AM PDT by moneyrunnerEdited on 10/15/2013 6:13:59 AM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
AFP - France's mainstream political parties were Monday scratching their heads over what to do about a surge by the Front National (FN) after a breakthrough by-election win for the far-right party.
The ruling Socialist party and the centre-right Union for a Popular Movement (UMP), the party of former president Nicolas Sarkozy, face humiliating reverses in municipal and European elections next year if the FN can sustain its current standing in the eyes of an electorate thoroughly fed-up with record unemployment, rising taxes and a perceived increase in crime and insecurity.
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They look all around their country as they see the growing Islamic influence on their culture.
They're scared and rightfully so.
There are more and more mosques, more Islamic demands, etc.
This means that French Fascism is beginning to take hold once again just like in days of old, in the late 19th century.
The French, despite their natural affinity for the Left will swing to the Right or die and they know it.
They don’t get this?!?! ...” fed-up with record unemployment, rising taxes and a perceived increase in crime and insecurity.”
When people really learn what the left stands for, and suffer under their policies for a while they turn away. They then vote in conservatives to fix the problems the left has made. Once things are better, they tend to forget and get sucked into the liberal lies again. Short memories.
Fascism is left, not right.
This point is debatable. Usually we associate it with a Nationalist state, meaning Right wing, no?
The Germans formed National Socialism which sounds Left.
The LEFT Communist Socialist fought the Left National Socialists in WWII? Why do the Russians always claim they fought Fascists? A system diametrically opposed to theirs?
No - it is LEFT - period.
Hitler and Mussolini were favored darlings of the left (though not the icons that Uncle Joe was), UNTIL Hitler betrayed Stalin - THEN, and only then, fascism became right.
I’ll believe it when the French start hanging socialists in the street.
You should read an interesting book called “The Chief Culprit” by a former Red Army officer named Viktor Suvorov. This guy is not popular in Russian circles.
It basically states that Stalin was gearing up for an all out attack on Europe/Germany but was beaten to the punch by Hitler. Very interesting theory backed up by research.
Ill believe it when the French start hanging socialists in the street.
The American revolution was revolution with a goal. They put a lot of thought and time into what they wanted. They looked to God and history to learn.
It has worked for a long time but I really think our “revolution” today is of the French nature. I don’t hear a lot of what we want like God, freedom, responsibility, etc.
That's the Internet dictionary version.
But I always learned the way you did, that communism was left and fascism was right.
BOTH systems were oppressive from my point of view. Both were invasive and didn't allow for much freedom.
Fox News is on Harry Reid’s and Obama’s side in the current debate. Hume, Krauthammer and Rove would not be useful in a foxhole, unless you needed someone to hoist the white flag of surrender.
Fascism is mistakenly considered Right because it opposes communism.
The economic system associated with fascism is Corporatism. Corporatism is a form of Socialism in which there is private ownership of businesses, however the government uses heavy-handed regulations to control output and prices. Corporatists oppose communism for the same reasons that Capitalists oppose communism; both groups want private ownership of capital. However, the heavy-handed big-government nature of Corporatism (Fascism) essentially negates private control of capital that is privately owned - which make it operate much closer to socialism than capitalism.
Netz, a National Socialist is still a statist, and very similar to an international socialist in the ways that count. Go see the two paragraph quote by Hayek on my profile page, it’s the third one down. It is a great summary of the differences between Nazis, Communists, and socialists, contrasted with those who truly believe in individual freedom.
Beyond that, if you want more, I have a number of germane links about the true collectivist nature of the Nazis.
That is the general concept. In arguments, folks I know who are Lefties and get frustrated by my argument ALWAYS end the conversation by calling me a “Fascist”. It’s a knee-jerk reflex.
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I’ve had enough National Socialists or just plain Socialists for one day, just watching the news. It’s enough to make you just start digging that bomb shelter...
Fascism is right-side statism. Communism is left-side statism.
Also called third position economics.
Best example of that right now is ObamaCare. I’ve enjoyed the experience, several times recently, of using that on Liberals who argue that ObamaCare is a “center-right” solution. It’s easy to get them to buy offon it being a third position solution, then smack them in the face with it being fascist economics.
They really don’t like having that inconvienient truth pointed out ...
Constitutionalism or conservatism is the Right. Fascism and communism are the Left.
All the same. Same ends sought under cover of something good for the people, always B.S.
Nazi and Commies were brutal gangs nothing more. WWII conflict between them was a gang war for turf and dominance.
History is written by the victors and they prefer to hide their true nature behind veils of lies about doing good for the common people.
That is how I see it. You can make your own call but bear in mind that they care nothing for you or yours, witness tens of millions of noncombatants dead on all sides.
Knee jerk is the right word. They don't THINK.
If they THOUGHT they would see the general failure of communism, even of socialism.
Socialism often works in a country where everyone is generally the same. I saw that in Scandinavia. There is a common Scandinavian "think," that is, that mommy-government can/should/must be the nipple on which ALL suckle.
Americans live in a dog-eat-dog society to many socialist countries like them, but THIS is the BEST place in the world to be (Am I a bit prejudiced?). We have to EARN what we get and that makes us stronger.
Stronger is better because it makes us self-reliant so when gubmint fails, and it often does, or when gubmint runs out of money from the commie/socialist "money tree," which it often does, then the independent people can/will survive AND thrive. The nipple-dependent don't survive or thrive and just WHINE.
That’s a simplistic, one dimensional approach.
Look at it two dimensionally. Standard Liberal/Left and Conservative/Right on the X axis, but Statism and Anti-Statism on the Y (bottom and top, respectively)
So extreme lower left quadrant is Communism. Lower right is Fascism, upper right is Randian Objectivism and upper left is big L Libertarianism.
ALWAYS end the conversation by calling me a Fascist. Its a knee-jerk reflex.
To add: Constitutionalism would be in the upper Right quadrant, but not out to the extreme as with Objectivism.
The French are NOT going to die. They are the most tenacious monkeys. They were inculcated with liberal guilt by their mainstream media. So, they tried to do what THEY thought was the "right" thing. WRONG AGAIN, froggies! Enabling folks does them more of a disservice than ignoring them, I think. I wonder if the frogs will let reality happen to those who won't work. Hmmm.
You nailed it.
But,then, you are simply demonstrating the reality of your call sign.
Despite what dictionaries and definition-sites say, YOUR definition is the CORRECT one.
There is no such thing as right-side statism. Statism is leftist thinking. The “fascism is right-side statism” is a successful propaganda blitz performed by the left in order to cover their about-face turn from their former darlings, Hitler and Mussolini. Refuse to accept the left propaganda.
Left loves government and control.
Right loves freedom and liberty.
Keep those keys in your mind and it’s easy to see who falls where.
Thanks for the book tip - I will look for it.
Negative, and see my post #15. Kidd’s #14 is worthwhile as well.
My own call aligns with Hayek, who I must assume you didn’t read by going to my FR profile page.
Summary: There isn’t a nickel’s difference between Nazis and Communists, and the real difference is with respect to a “liberal of the old type”, or what we now call a conservative, since in the intervening years Leftist collectivists have hijacked the term “liberal”.
They’ve had enough. Rapes, theft, murders, cars burned. The parasites come in, take everything they can, and then assault the people who provide for them.
Kick them out!
ObamaCare is very consistant with Corporatism, at least on its face and for the time being.
-Heavily regulated but privately owned insurance.
-Rules on who private insurance can have as a customer and what they have to cover.
Yes, Fascists would be very happy with Obamacare.
Of course, the intent is to force everyone into a single-payer system. Then it becomes pure socialism.
Marine Le Pen interview (translated to English). Being half French this interests me. Glenn Beck's knee jerk (heavy on the “jerk”) reaction was Nationalist Fascists, Nazis, anti Semitic.
As Glenn has suggested in the past, that the political scale is not a line with left on one end and right on the other, but it is a circle. Fascism is the point where left and right meet on the circle. I think this is correct.
The FN Party may have been very close to this line under Marine’s Father, but has moved away from it becoming more of a far right party. Nationalistic? Yes, very much so, but the French are a very proud people when it comes to their nationality. They have a very long history that we in America have no concept of. I remember attending church in this little town of Le Conquet. It had a dirt floor. I questioned it's primitiveness and was told it had been just like this for TWO THOUSAND YEARS. There are Giant crosses in open fields that are so old no one knows how they got there. In colonial days and way before, France was a WORLD power. So, being nationalistic in France isn't the same thing as nationalism in Nazi Germany.
Marine wants to secure France's borders, limit immigration (especially Muslims), get out of the EU, bring back French currency, create and protect French jobs and fair trade.
Sounds good to me! More like her!
Liberalism is simply a stage of Leftist totalitarianism. It’s not a separate category.
The standard libertarian square of personal freedom v. Economic freedom makes more sense, but its flaw is in the definitions, where personal freedom is effectively defined as libertinism.
The Mainstream Media in most Western Countries represent their own opinions and the opinions of their co-worker one desk over...
There’s really no perfect way of representing the political/ideological spectrum. So it comes down to personal preference and how one likes to frame the discussion (and against who they wish to frame it).
I like the two axis approach (Left/Right X and Statist/Anti-Statist Y) because it traps Liberals in their argument that policies like ObamaCare are “center-right” and allows me to define them as fascist (or corperatist). I like going out on the Liberals’ own playing field and being able to win. Which I define as reducing them to sputtering indignance/rage at being unable to defend themselves against being the ones labled “fascist” and “corporate stooge”.
A good assessment. Truly, this is about what we won’t tolerate as we have been pushed beyond the edge and any hope of reconciliation.
For an assemblage of the massive evidence of just how far Left the Nazis were, see The Lies of Socialism.
France, today, has terrible problems. One can only hope that Marine Le Pen's influence continues to grow in France.
The old Protestant-Work Ethic held fast for 200 years. I think it is slowly being subverted by the entitlement mentality. Less hard work, more cut corners and I deserve X.
We are on a slippery slope.
Good point. Instead of letting them get away with it, force them to define...
This author revealed a lot of the internal workings of the Red Army and has theories about how Stalin wanted to launch a massive war to enable him to enlarge the empire, conquering Europe (which he did anyway).
If what this author states is true (and I think much of it is) it will change your thinking about WWII. He has other books as well. He is an outcast in Russia for holding his views.
I think the slope got more slippery when a Muslim became president.
Why do the Bloods fight the Crips?