Posted on 10/15/2013 2:24:21 PM PDT by Rusty0604
Father Ray Leonard, who serves as the Catholic chaplain at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in Georgia, filed suit Monday against the Department of Defense, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, the Department of the Navy, and Navy Secretary Ray Mabus. DOD is prohibiting Father Leonard and the other Catholic priests from administering the sacraments and providing other services to their congregations even though two weeks ago Congress passed, and President Barack Obama signed, a law that instructed DOD to maintain on the job and keep paying contract employees who were supporting the troops. DOD took this action because Hagel determined--after consulting with Attorney General Eric Holder's Justice Department--that civilian Catholic priests, working under contract as chaplains, did not, among other things, “contribute to the morale” and “well-being” of service personnel.
Father Leonard, who spent a decade serving the Tibetan population in China, likened the administration’s behavior to that of the regime in the People’s Republic. “In China, I was disallowed from performing public religious services due to the lack of religious freedom in China,” Father Leonard said in a statement. "I never imagined that when I returned home to the United States, that I would be forbidden from practicing my religious beliefs as I am called to do, and would be forbidden from helping and serving my faith community.”
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
Now, that is a peculiar claim. Are you speaking for all Catholics and saying Catholics do not see the view represented by my post as the "un-saved", out of fellowship, separated, or lost? Clearly, Catholics are "against" biblical Christians as errant in their doctrines of salvation by grace alone, through faith. This is always objected to and Rome is represented to stand against this simplistic view.
I was simply pointing out that now that the trappings added by Rome are no longer available, this need is coming back to haunt them. Not so with biblical Christianity.
I am curious. Are you one of that species of Christian who insists that the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God, and moreover that their true meaning is found by reading them literally, without regard to an interpretive tradition?
I was just wondering because you seem to read “Then Jesus said unto them, ‘Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you’,” on the basis of some interpretive tradition (dare I say a tradition of men?) that tells you to not take it literally.
Did you eat His flesh or did you a biscuit with the magic wand waived over it? Did Jesus turn into a door? Did you see Him become a gate? You may wish to invest in a good course on hermeneutics, my FRiend. “Do this in remembrance of Me.” not “Do this and believe that my flesh has become the biscuit.” Reading is your friend.
ping to 23
Well, then exercise it...just leave off the pomp and circumstance. No one is stopping you from worshiping Jesus...if you can without all the bells & whistles.
Too bad Hagel and Kerry didn’t need priests to take their last confessions in Viet Nam.
The original conflict between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland was not truly a matter of religion — it was a matter of social class.
Put quite briefly, the majority of the population in Ireland, post 1000 A. D., was Catholic. They never underwent the church reform that England did in the 1500s. Thus, by the 1600s, England = Anglican (Protestant), and Ireland = Catholic.
When England began to establish plantations in Ireland and establish themselves as the ruling class, they often did it in a relatively unpleasant and domineering fashion, making themselves unpopular with their new subjects in the manner of America and India.
Hostility arouse between Catholics and Protestants in this way not because the religions themselves bore marked differences, but because these denominations were attached to two very different classes. Intermarriages were frowned upon, not for spiritual reasons, but because the Protestant was marrying below their class.
I can think of two reasons: 1) the admonition to pray for the leaders of a nation (no matter who/what they are); 2) praying for those who spitefully use us, for their enlightenment.
The put Barrycades around the Body of Christ?
The last people to do that were the Romans.
He can sue, but military chaplains are often made of extremely strong stuff. Being locked out of a church, no problem. They can conduct services about anywhere they like, in muddy trenches, POW camps, in the middle of a battle, you name it.
Sure, they can sue, but if they want to be remembered and toasted as gentlemen of character by their congregants, they need to rough it. Having to tough it out is also great for their congregants spiritual morale as well.
It reminds everyone involved that this is important.
Until CBS and NBC and ABC carries this story instead of just CNS sadly it won’t mean anything.
You do realize that, except for gnostics and iconoclastic heretics (two groups that had trouble with the reality of the Incarnation), no Christian of any note prior to Zwingli denied the reality of the Eucharist as Christ's very Body and Blood? Not the Latins (you call them "Catholics", why do you do that? do you credit their claim to be the universal Church?), not us Orthodox, not the monophysites (Copts, Syrian Jacobites and Armenians) not the Nestorians (Assyrians), not the first generations of Lutherans, not Calvin and those of his followers who didn't adopt Zwingli's views. We might quibble over whether the Latins' use of Aristotelian categories to describe the miracle is appropriate (we Orthodox don't like applying Aristotelianism to matters of the Faith, and the Copts and Assyrians aren't wild about it either), we might quarrel with the Latins and Armenians over their use of azymes in place of artos for the Eucharistic bread, but we all agree that Jesus should be taken at His word at face value when He instituted the Eucharist.
You do realize that there is no contradiction between celebrating the Eucharist in remembrance of Christ (the anamnesis is a part of every traditional Eucharistic rite East or West) and when this is done the Holy Spirit making the elements of bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ so we can literally fulfill His command that we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood that we might have Him and the Father abiding in us, and might have life.
To believe otherwise you need to insert a non-existent "only" into the passage you quote against the vast majority of Christian believers, and read large swaths of Scripture non-literally.
John 6:56: Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
Luke 22:19: ..."This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
I’m glad that the priest is fighting it. But truthfully, if the church had any balls they would simply disobey the orders and have mass and sacraments without the permission of the military commanders.
Hold mass outside on the lawns of the chapels for God’s sake. Let’s see some real, genuine civil disobedience here. The legless vets had the stones to tear down the BarryCades and dump them in front of the WH. And the priest and church *sue*?
Screw Obama, screw the base commander, screw the Provost Marshall and screw the MPs. When I was growing up Catholic clergy practically brought down despotic governments with their protests and civil disobedience.
WHO KNEW? The Obama administration is denying Catholic Mass because they fear for our immortal souls! Awww, I didn’t know they cared...
“Come join your pal in his trashy, despicable bigotry.”
Have you considered whether perhaps Dutchboy’s dyke left suddenly and now his finger hurts?
Amendment I -- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
That’s not the point.
Obama’s thugs are disgraceful... thanks Ciz for pinging me to this one...
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