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To: The_Reader_David
"You do realize that there is no contradiction between celebrating the Eucharist in remembrance of Christ (the anamnesis is a part of every traditional Eucharistic rite East or West) and when this is done the Holy Spirit making the elements of bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ so we can literally fulfill His command that we eat His Flesh and drink His Blood that we might have Him and the Father abiding in us, and might have life."

No, my FRiend, there is a mountain of "difference". And, for a moment consider...nowhere does the text indicate any of the "processes" the RCC has manufactured over the centuries to attempt this "literal" change. Notice, Jesus never said, "By the way, when this comes up after I am gone, you will need a special man (I'll designate him a priest) to have special bread baked and special wine set aside in a chalice. Then, at a moment, he must lift it up and say certain words over it for the actual transubstantiation to occur. Then, he must "administer" it to parishoners who line up and walk across the stage. This is what I mean by 'doing this in remembrance of me'."

Compare that to eating bread and drinking wine and saying, "I remember you Lord Jesus".

And, yes, there were many believers who saw this second understanding as the correct one. Paul and Peter, for example. Nowhere in Scripture do either of them refer to a "transubstantiation" ceremony. Your club made the whole thing up...and we invite you to abandon their chains and find rescue in Jesus, alone...if God permits you (Rom. 9).

41 posted on 10/16/2013 1:32:26 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

No, Jesus didn’t say all the things you seem to fancy would be necessary to justify the universal practice and understanding of Christians, both East and West, until Zwingli got it into his head that nothing really happens in the Eucharist. But He did tell us that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth.

So your position is that, at least as regards the Eucharist, somehow Our Lord’s promise concerning the Spirit, remained unfulfilled with all the generations of martrys under Roman and Persian persecution, all the faithful who sought to follow Christ down 15 centuries or so, getting the nature of the Eucharist wrong until the promise of the Holy Spirit guiding us into all truth was fulfilled in Zwingli judging that the command “do this in remembrance of me” somehow nullified all the Scriptural texts that point to the reality of Christ’s Body and Blood in the Eucharist. Really?

Or do you have some patristic evidence supporting a proto-Zwinglian position in the Apostolic era? I’ve certainly seen none, and I’ve read all the major writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers. Had the view even been held by a substantial body of heretics, we’d have texts condemning it, but nothing... The post-communion prayer in the Didache speaks of the Eucharist as spiritual food and drink and connects it to eternal life. St. Ignatius of Antioch, who knew the Holy Apostles and according to his life as we read it in the Orthodox Church met Christ as a child, being in fact the child who was brought to Jesus and sat on His lap when He said “suffer the little children come unto me”, plainly holds the traditional understanding of the Eucharist as the very Body and Blood of Christ, and understands the taxis of the Church with its orders of ministry (read his Letter the Smyrneans).


43 posted on 10/16/2013 4:34:01 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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