Dangerous Malfunction from Water Damaged Remington 700

Gun Watch ^ | 17 December, 2013 | Dean Weingarten

[marktwain]

The clip at the rear of the trigger group shows rust from the water damage

 I recently found that a Remington 700 rifle was water damaged in storage.  It was stored butt down, with a gun sock around the rifle.   The sock wicked water from near the floor up toward the action.  Outside, there was no indication that damage had been done, as the composite stock is impervious to water.

The rifle has always had an excellent trigger, in the range of 1.5 to 2 lbs.   It was set up for target shooting, and did not appear to be modified from the factory. After I had dried the stock and made sure that the action was clear, I aimed at a suitable backstop and pressed the trigger... nothing.   I made sure the safety was off... nothing.

I put the safety on and worked the action.  Now I pushed the safety forward.

CLICK!

The sound of the striker firing was very loud, as I did not expect it.

I tried it again.  Safety on.  Work the action.  Push the safety forward.

CLICK!

Safety off.   Work the action.  The rifle would not stay cocked.  The only way the rifle will stay cocked, is with the safety on.

I tried it for 20 more times to be sure.   Everytime, the mechanism worked exactly the same way.   The safety had become the effective trigger.

I expect that the mating surfaces of the sear were damaged by rust, and they simply were not able to hold the striker in the cocked position by themselves.  However, when reinforced by the safety mechanism, there is sufficient strengh/mechanical advantage to hold the striker in the cocked position. Then, when the safety is released, the striker slips forward.  There is no doubt in my mind that the rifle would fire if a cartridge were in the chamber.

I do not fault Remington for this problem.   They cannot be expected to have their rifles work after they have been damaged.  However, the damage is very slight, and not easily noticible from the outside.   It is plausible that it could happen in the field if the rifle were rained on or splashed on and stored for a few days.

Just another reminder that Murphy is always present, and to always check your firearms after storage, to insure that the mechanisms are working properly.


©2013 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
Link to Gun Watch

[marktwain]

Some have suggested aftermarket triggers for the model 700.

[Delta 21]

The damaged weapon didnt operate like an un-damaged one?

Hmmm.

[VeniVidiVici]

The rifle was stored to where it was damaged by water/rust and then the writer was surprised it misfired.

Huh?

[smokingfrog]

http://www.remington.com/en/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-modification-program.aspx

[ExpatGator]

He should take it to a gunsmith. Someone who is trained to diagnose and repair malfunctions caused by neglect of a firearm. This is NOT a design issue.

Disclaimer: I am a degreed and certified gunsmith.

[tiki]

Ha Ha, Murphy’s law, my grandson was in a shooting competition this weekend and the thrower malfunctioned and hit hard on his trigger finger before he even got to shoot, turned it purple and swelled it up before he even made his first shot.

He won his level but felt like he could have done much better.

[marktwain]

The article does not say it is a design issue. A simple trigger replacement will almost certainly cure the problem. Lots of aftermarket Remington 700 triggers available.

Thinking on it, I may have a spare Remington 700 trigger floating around somewhere.

[oldenuff2no]

"Disclaimer: I am a degreed and certified gunsmith."

So am I. Lassen college Susanville ca.

Have that trigger replaced. No other fix should be considered. It is gunsmith time for you. ExpatGator knows exactly what he is saying.

[Vendome]

Just buy a new trigger group and seer.

Life happens.

[Vendome]

Will they fix the chatter that happens when I draw the bolt and press it forward?

[yarddog]

Since the model 700 has literally been made in the millions there should be no shortage of either aftermarket triggers from say Timney.

Remington probably has replacements. They may even do it for free since there have been some problems with model 700 triggers.

[smokingfrog]

I doubt it. Sounds like a job for a gunsmith. Lapping the bolt or something?

[Vendome]

What pisses me off is I mated a Luepold MK IV to it. Shoots beautifully but, that nasty bolt chatter cheapens the whole thing.

I explained problem to a Smith and he guessed for $300 he could fix and give me a gnarly looking bolt that would definitely stand out as personilization.

Thought the scope was enough.

[Vendome]

Lapping? Maybe. He said it would have that fancy crosscut and a a throw that would definitely be kewel.

I think I’m gonna let him do it next year.

I hate that my brother thinks he can shoot “about”(LOL!) as good with his costum make 270 and that cheap azz mail dot $100 scope he bought .

That thing is a POS and I can’t stand being forced on top of the scope and hoping I don’t get creeped. Plus I hate using a dime to adjust wind & elevation.

Should just dial off the damned scope without more work.

Hey, hey, hey! I have surprise for him next year when I get that FNL thing and top it with a Schmidt & Bender.

He’ll have to worship me then.

I’ll make it more unfair and shoot only match grade.

Then all I have to do is write my marks for 100, 300, 600 and 1,000 yrd

Who duh man now!!!

Frickin $12,000 to brag and $3 bucks a round..

[NVDave]

It is partly a design issue.

The Walker Fire Control system is known to have this exact problem when gummed up with congealed lubricant or rust in the trigger mechanism, especially when set to trigger pull weights under 3 pounds.

The connector isn’t returning against the trigger, in part because the spring adjustment isn’t strong enough to push the connector against the trigger and in part because the connector has no positive attachment to the front of the trigger.

One solution to this is to solder or glue the connector to the front of the trigger. Another is to simply get an aftermarket trigger and be done with it.

[NVDave]

There are not only aftermarket replacements, there are far safer triggers for the 700/721/40X rifles when one wants to set the trigger to have low pull weights.

[smokingfrog]

action and bolt truing

[Rage cat]

The thing that the Remington apologists here don’t understand is that a designer has to anticipate possible failure modes (ways the item can be damaged) in his design, and try to make the failure modes fail safely. AKA (fail safe) As in, when the item has a mechanical malfunction, it will result in a non dangerous situation. The failure modes that should be obvious to the designer is dirt, water, rust, and other environmental contaminates, and their effects on equipment over the years.

When they designed the 700 trigger, they obviously did not think that little detail through.

Most guns rely on a trigger based safety restraint. It will impinge the trigger there by making the movement of that trigger impossible. It does not interfere with the hammer or other movement on down the line. If the trigger will not hold the hammer back, then the unit will never stayed in the cocked position, safety on, or off. Like the savage. The safety will not even engage if the trigger is not in the locked position. If the trigger system is rusted to the point it won’t fully engage the sear, then you can’t engage the safety in the first place. So the possibility of using the safety as a trigger is zero no mater what rust is on the trigger system, or dirt in the system.

On the rem 700 the design is such that the safety can hold the hammer in the firing position even if the trigger is unable to. That creates the condition where the safety can become an effective trigger when the trigger is even slightly contaminated, or damaged from the elements.

The reason they had to go with that type of safety on the 700 in the first place was because they could not rely on a simple trigger safety to prevent the gun from firing during normal drops, mishandling, or trigger damage. That is because there is no way to “positively lock” all the trigger elements in place to withstand drops, or mishandling while the safety was on. SO they had to have one that impinged the striker system directly to achieve a safety that made it impossible for the gun to fire when the safety was on..

Thus, creates the situation where the safety is the only thing holding the striker back after a normal drop, mishandling, or trigger damage. Thus, when you disengage the last thing holding that striker, then the gun will fire.

AKA… A seriously flawed design.

[doorgunner69]

Have not read all the comments, but why would some idiot try to operate a rusted weapon unless his life depended on it?

[DIRTYSECRET]

The Remington Bushmaster with Tracking Point in .223 caliber. The new thing. Anyone know where they can be bought? They’re around $5k.