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Greenfield: We Can Have Gay Rights or Freedom of Speech
Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog ^ | Saturday, December 21, 2013 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 12/22/2013 5:55:43 AM PST by Louis Foxwell

Saturday, December 21, 2013

We Can Have Gay Rights or Freedom of Speech

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog

What do a reality show star, a cakemaker and a photographer have in common? They're all victims of a political system in which the mandate to not merely recognize gay marriage, but to celebrate it, has completely displaced freedom of speech.

The issues at stake in all three cases did not involve the Orwellian absurdity of "Marriage Equality". The cases of a Christian cakemaker and a Christian photographer whom state courts have ruled must participate in gay weddings or face fines and jail time were blatant violations of both Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion in the name of outlawing any dissent from gay marriage.

That is why Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty was suspended. Robertson, unlike Bashir, didn't take to the air to make violent threats against an individual. He expressed in plain language that he believes homosexuality is wrong. And that is something that you aren't allowed to do anymore.

The left sneers that A&E isn't subject to Freedom of Speech because it's a private company. And they're right. But then they insist that a cakemaker and a photographer aren't protected by Freedom of Speech or Religion because they're private businesses.

In their constitutional universe, companies have the right to punish speech in the name of gay rights, but not to engage in protected speech in dissent from gay rights. And that's exactly the problem. It's not just gays who have been made into a protected class, but homosexuality itself. To dissent from it is bigotry that you can be fired for, fined for and even jailed for.

Gay rights were not settled by legalizing gay marriage. We are facing an ugly choice between freedom of speech and gay rights.

In these three cases, gay rights activists have made it clear that we can have one or the other. But we can't have a country where we have both gay weddings and people who disagree with them.

And that's unfortunate because even the most generous interpretation of the benefits of two men marrying each other would struggle to prove that it is more beneficial to a society than the ability to speak your own mind and to practice your own religion without being compelled to violate it.

If we have to choose between gay rights and the First Amendment, the moral arc of the universe that liberals like to invoke so often will not swing toward the bullies who insist on dealing with their self-esteem problems by forcing everyone to consent and approve of their lifestyle.

Gay marriage was sold to Americans by cunningly crafted "gay families" on popular sitcoms. Now Americans are discovering that real gay activists aren't friendly people who just want to make jokes between commercial breaks, but are neurotic and insecure bullies who attack others from behind the safety of the politicians that they bribed with the massive disposable incomes that comes from not having families or long-term relationships.

Most Americans still believe that homosexuality, adultery and a range of other deviant sexual behaviors are sins. They also, like Phil Robertson, believe that disapproving of a behavior does not mean rejecting the person. That's where they part company with gay activists who are unable to tolerate Phil Robertson as a person if they are also unable to tolerate his opinion of their sexual habits.

The American tolerance for things like homosexuality comes from a mindset that is a lot closer to Phil Robertson than it is to Barack Obama. It's that very Phil Robertson attitude which allows Americans to disapprove of homosexuality, while accepting that homosexuals should have spaces for expressing their need for political identity ceremonies. That tolerance led to civil unions and then gay marriage. And that tolerance has been woefully abused.

Americans are far more tolerant of sexual misbehavior than they are of people trying to take away their civil rights. And that is something that gay rights activists need to consider carefully.

American tolerance for homosexuality is not a blank check. It's not the "progressive" endgame that the left believes it is in which tolerance for a thing is mistaken for the Stalinist willingness to punish dissent from that very thing.

When ordinary Americans talk about tolerance, they mean tolerance. When the left talks about tolerance, it means intolerance.

Now the gay rights movement, which is just another pimple on the bony arm of the left, is showing its true colors. It is showing that its calls for tolerance are really mandates for intolerance.

It isn't looking for public spaces in which to be gay, but the elimination of public and even private spaces that reject homosexuality. It's not gay rights that we are talking about, but gay mandates.

If Americans are forced to choose between Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion and gay rights; the Pajama Boys of America may not like which way they will vote.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: greenfield; homosexualagenda; sultanknish

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1 posted on 12/22/2013 5:55:43 AM PST by Louis Foxwell
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To: daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; blaveda; ...

Homosexuals may celebrate their depravity. They my not require me to join the party. I will tolerate their depravity but they must tolerate my condemnation of their depravity.


2 posted on 12/22/2013 5:58:45 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

RNC Committeeman Dave Agema actually said it best a while back.

Basically he made the point that gays already have every single constitutional right that every other American has. The difference is the fact that they’re trying to silence any who disapproves which effectively means outlawing religion in public.


3 posted on 12/22/2013 6:02:01 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Louis Foxwell

4 posted on 12/22/2013 6:03:45 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: cripplecreek
outlawing religion in public

That is the goal of everything they do -- and it's specifically aimed at Christianity. All Leftwing policy is aimed at eliminating faith in God. All of it

5 posted on 12/22/2013 6:05:46 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Louis Foxwell

Gays have rights like everyone else.we don’t need a liberation movement for a sexual act.


6 posted on 12/22/2013 6:07:00 AM PST by Williams (No Obama)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Well written, well said. Thank you for posting.


7 posted on 12/22/2013 6:07:00 AM PST by onona (The Earth is the insane asylum for the universe (yup, I belong))
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To: Louis Foxwell

If we were really having a discussion about “marriage equality” in this country, perhaps we could have it.

But its not about gays getting married, its about creating a society where those who disagree with homosexuality and gay marriage are marginalized in our society.

Those who espouse those views are entitled to their First Amendment rights but the angry mob says no.

Those who oppose homosexuality and gay marriage will become the equivalent of black people in the South during Jim Crow days and Jews in mid 1930’s Germany. They will be excluded from employment and business.

ALL AMERICANS WHO BELIEVE IN OUR CONSTITUTION AND ITS GUARANTEES CANNOT BE SILENT IN THESE MATTERS REGARDLESS OF THEIR VIEWS ABOUT SEXUALITY.

We have seen these kind of bullies who label people “haters” before. They stood outside of businesses in Germany 80 years ago with “Jew” signs.

Pastor Niemoller in Germany stood by while they went after trade union leaders, Catholics, Jews etc. etc.

EVERYBODY’S FREEDOM IS EVERYBODY’S BUSINESS


8 posted on 12/22/2013 6:10:43 AM PST by Nextrush (AFFORDABLE CARE ACT=HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY BAILOUT ACT)
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To: Williams

There is no specific right to marriage in the constitution. Marriage falls under our constitutional religious freedoms.

Gays aren’t seeking a right, they’re seeking to impose their will.


9 posted on 12/22/2013 6:12:53 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

exactly, what the homostapo want is for us to be silenced and not inform anyone what the homosexual agenda is really all about plus tramping on the first amendment, freedom of religion, speech and the 10th amendment.

A fed judge should not decide how a state like NM or UT should govern their marriages , this was a state issue not a fed issue


10 posted on 12/22/2013 6:13:03 AM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Louis Foxwell
As a new Christian (many years ago), I was suckered into defending my new faith with a fellow collegian. For being new to the faith, I held up pretty well. The kicker was when they fell back to the old "You're not very tolerant of my views!" statement. It had to be divine, but I looked at them calmly and retorted: "Well, I don't think you're being very tolerant of my views either!".

The deer-in-the-headlights look as they saw their bigotry in the mirror was priceless! The sword cuts both ways...

11 posted on 12/22/2013 6:13:10 AM PST by Dubh_Ghlase (Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls, It tolls for thee.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

I despise the term “homophobic”. It’s a made up term used to describe the inherent irrationality of people who are against homosexuality.

Phobic means “irrational fear”. Just because people for any number of reasons disapprove of Homosexuality, and all that goes along with it ie. sodomy, promiscuity, AIDS etc doesn’t make them either fearful or irrational!


12 posted on 12/22/2013 6:14:26 AM PST by traderrob6
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To: Louis Foxwell

Homosexuals have the same rights as hetrosexuals.


13 posted on 12/22/2013 6:16:44 AM PST by sport
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To: Louis Foxwell
Sultanic Bump
14 posted on 12/22/2013 6:17:02 AM PST by tomkat
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To: Louis Foxwell

Gay rights are about two things: money and validation.

Money - Gays want to get the same perceived financial advantages of married couples. Tax breaks and spousal benefits. In the case of politics, politicians want to get contributions from the amble discretionary funds that many gays have. In the case of the military, gays want the extra pay for people who live off-base and medical coverage of tricare for their gay partners.

Validation - Gays couples want the same legitimacy of normal heterosexual couples. They want validation from everyone, more enjoyable to them, if that validation is forced upon a reluctant segment of the population. Also, since many gays are resentful towards religion, they want to undermine those churches and poke them in the eye with their behavior.

All of this goes beyond toleration or the simple demand to be treated with dignity. They want to become a protected class beyond reproach.


15 posted on 12/22/2013 6:18:20 AM PST by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededicaton to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution...)
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To: Louis Foxwell

16 posted on 12/22/2013 6:18:34 AM PST by Baynative (Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.)
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To: cripplecreek
Actually, our own Jim Robinson has emphasized this fact over the years.
17 posted on 12/22/2013 6:19:36 AM PST by sport
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To: Louis Foxwell

AS I read this article, what I come away with, is that there shall be a war. It will not be the SHTF’er’s war, not yet.

It will be a war of a magnitude that could justify the eradication of possibly 2% of the American population. That is a lot of Americans. However, when John Q. / Jane Q. Public cannot speak their mind about any issue at all, then a lot of headstones, in a lot of military cemeteries, got there, for nothing!

Will the Sodomites silence me? No. They might be ‘Americans’, but they are endearing Communist ideology, and that I will not stand for.

Do not be fooled, fellow Americans. If there be war, it will because the homosexuals in this country, will be the ones “firing the first shot at Fort Sumter”, not John Q. / Jane Q. Public.


18 posted on 12/22/2013 6:20:16 AM PST by Terry L Smith
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To: cripplecreek

That is a very worthwhile reminder. In my occasional, painful discussions with queers about rights, my fav question is, “What Constitutional rights do I have that you don’t have?” After they sputter and stumble around from a minute, I say, “Then quit you’re bitching. There’s nothing special about me and there’s nothing special about you.”


19 posted on 12/22/2013 6:21:47 AM PST by upchuck (My Internet addiction is so bad... it's alt of ctrl.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
I've been saying this on Free Republic for many years now:

Christianity and homosexualism (the political arm of the movement) cannot coexist.

They know this too. It will get very ugly in the near future. Far worse than what we're seeing today.

20 posted on 12/22/2013 6:24:51 AM PST by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: upchuck

Seems to me that the only inequalities are those created by government when they tied things like tax policy and social security to marriage.

Obamacare is doing more of the exact same thing.


21 posted on 12/22/2013 6:31:49 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Louis Foxwell

hypocrisy at it’s finest. The gay community has an aggressive agenda to attack religious folks as can be seen in this photo of the “sisters of Perpetual Indulgence” attacking Catholic nuns in a recent “Gay Pride” Parade in Boston.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Yq69fFwk2Os/UrSnYQMnBfI/AAAAAAAADQQ/gHq2VWJgR9Y/s1600/Gay+Pride+Parade;+in+Boston.jpg


22 posted on 12/22/2013 6:35:15 AM PST by jazzpatriot
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To: Louis Foxwell

Right now we are suffering form the tyranny of the minority.


23 posted on 12/22/2013 6:37:21 AM PST by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: Nextrush; Louis Foxwell

No doubt. We must annunciate and repudiate the war against Christian values that is being led by the media complex in this country. This would be a ready made campaign cry for the right if they had the courage to actually stand for anything... The war against Christians.

The most important thing is for us to constantly point it out so that voters know it even exists.


24 posted on 12/22/2013 6:46:05 AM PST by ez (Muslims do not play well with others.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
But we can't have a country where we have both gay weddings and people who disagree with them.

The evidence is already overwhelming. But he's wrong about the Pajama Boys. If they do not like the way the people vote, they will get the courts to reverse it, and if need be, our now-gay military will enforce the decision.

25 posted on 12/22/2013 6:56:22 AM PST by madprof98
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To: Louis Foxwell

Christians look to the Bible as a guide to living and salvation. We know what sin is and battle against it on a daily basis. Sometimes we fail but forgiveness is available. If we choose to embrace sin and make it our lifestyle then we are no longer asking for forgiveness but acceptance. I’m still looking for the verses that preach acceptance of sin.


26 posted on 12/22/2013 7:22:01 AM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUJE9YfsbNQ

Democrats BOO GOD At Convention


27 posted on 12/22/2013 7:25:09 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: traderrob6

CDC: 94 to 95 percent of HIV cases among young men linked to gay sex

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/cdc-94-to-95-percent-of-hiv-cases-among-boys-and-young-men-linked-to-gay-se/


28 posted on 12/22/2013 7:28:40 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: traderrob6

“April 2, 2013 – I had a great talk yesterday with Dr. Thomas Clark, an epidemiologist and meningitis expert at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Our topic: the recent deadly meningitis outbreak among gay men in New York City.

As you may recall, we’ve been reporting on increasingly scary warnings out of New York that a particularly deadly variant of meningococcal disease (bacterial meningitis) was showing up in gay men in New York.”

http://americablog.com/2013/04/meningitis-nyc-gay-men-cdc-fact-sheet.html

Do homosexuals have to pay more for Obamacare?


29 posted on 12/22/2013 7:31:35 AM PST by ilovesarah2012
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To: Williams

You may not need a liberation movement to have sex,
But you seem need the trillions of taxes taken from the work of millions of people to keep you from infecting each other and causing horrible deaths in your community and elsewhere !!
when you start believing your own Bull s—t your in real trouble.


30 posted on 12/22/2013 7:35:34 AM PST by chatham
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To: Louis Foxwell

excellent commentary


31 posted on 12/22/2013 8:02:00 AM PST by Nevadan
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To: Louis Foxwell

Realize that the left (er, “progressives”) are not honest advocates of liberty. They only advocate something in order to advance the liberal agenda.

Recall that in the 1960’s the left demanded free speech from the conservative establishment. But they didn’t want really free speech, like Phil Robertson exercised. They wanted speech that was useful to tear down social norms especially those that helped to protect sexual morality.

Now that these same leftists are in control of education, media and entertainment, notice how they act while demanding free speech. A person cannot just remain silent. GLAAAD now demands affirmation that there is nothing wrong with homosexual behavior. If this was true, why is it still a big deal when some public person “comes out of the closet”? If the debate were settled, why does GLAAAAD need to exist any longer?

The people who were upset by Phil Robertson’s honesty can say or do anything. They are really raging against God who declares that what they are doing disqualifies them from receiving the free gift of eternal life made possible by Jesus’ sacrifice. These are similar to the people to whom Jesus said were “dead in their sins”

John 8:24 MKJV Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins.

This is a hard truth. A lot of liberals reject God and at best have some nebulous feeling about what happens after death. God tells us plainly in many ways that all humans will be judged for their actions. He also tells us plainly that some humans will choose to adhere to beliefs and behaviors that disqualify them from receiving eternal life.

Liberals can rage all they want, but that is the deal.


32 posted on 12/22/2013 8:14:25 AM PST by theBuckwheat
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To: Louis Foxwell

“When the left talks about tolerance, it means intolerance.”

The vociferous want not only mandated acceptance, but mandated approval and participation, no matter the cost to an individual or society.

tolerance: the act of putting up with something one disapproves of or surviving that which causes irritation or poisoning


33 posted on 12/22/2013 8:19:32 AM PST by This I Wonder32460
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To: cripplecreek

“Gays aren’t seeking a right, they’re seeking to impose their will.”

Gay activists are Christophobes - they are afraid of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and are using this issue to attack anyone who is a Christian.

Federal law prohibits someone from being fired for their religious beliefs. Unless there was something in the contract allowing them to be fired for their religious beliefs, then I fail to see how the firing was not illegal.

As for the Christian bakers - again, they are under ATTACK for being Christian. It is a travesty for any judge to rule that religious belief is only allowed inside the home. The first amendment should have settled that issue, but it seems the courts are more interested in gay rights than the Constitution or religious freedom.

We need to be pointing out to everyone we meet that this is a religious freedom issue, and that Christophobic homosexuals are attacking people for their religious beliefs.

At a minimum, we need to push for a federal law that states the right to hold and express and live one’s religious beliefs outside the home and in the workplace. If you can be fired for being intolerant of homosexual behavior, and specifically for expressing your views on your own time, then there is no religious freedom in America and the christophobic left will have conquered America.


34 posted on 12/22/2013 8:30:14 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: Mr Rogers

That right is guaranteed in the first amendment to the Constitution. If it is not sacrosanct there no lesser document will make it more viable.
We must demand absolute allegiance to the Constitution. No other course is defensible.


35 posted on 12/22/2013 8:34:35 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Just a reminder. Buggering and infanticide are not Constitutionally protected.


36 posted on 12/22/2013 8:36:59 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

“...but they must tolerate my condemnation of their depravity.”

Good luck with that. They’re not very tolerant of any other view, except their own.


37 posted on 12/22/2013 9:41:04 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: carriage_hill
"They’re not very tolerant of any other view, except their own."

That's all that really needs to be said about the gay rights movement.

38 posted on 12/22/2013 9:59:07 AM PST by ZirconEncrustedTweezers (I'm not anti-government, government's anti-me.)
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To: ZirconEncrustedTweezers

100%.


39 posted on 12/22/2013 10:16:50 AM PST by carriage_hill (Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading.)
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To: Travis McGee

Priceless! And, BTW, this article is the best yet on the topic. Lays it out clearly for all to see.


40 posted on 12/22/2013 10:25:33 AM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: Louis Foxwell
The left sneers that A&E isn't subject to Freedom of Speech because it's a private company. And they're right. But then they insist that a cakemaker and a photographer aren't protected by Freedom of Speech or Religion because they're private businesses.

This is a great point.

41 posted on 12/22/2013 10:33:18 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: Louis Foxwell

I’m always posing this question to homos and liberals: why is it that whenever “gay rights” laws are passed, someone who doesn’t agree with homosexuality is forced to do something unwillingly?


42 posted on 12/22/2013 11:50:14 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
Homosexuals may celebrate their depravity. They my not require me to join the party.
To quote Billy Joel, "you can speak your mind/ but not on my time...
43 posted on 12/22/2013 11:53:03 PM PST by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Amen!


44 posted on 12/24/2013 12:06:01 AM PST by caww
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