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The main reason your can't find any .22 ammo (Just my opinion)
vanity | 1-13-2014 | vanity

Posted on 01/12/2014 9:39:52 PM PST by servo1969

Let me tell you why you can't find any .22 ammo.

Yes, people are buying it and selling it online. Yes, people are hoarding it. But these alone are not enough to make the supply at gun stores as low as they've been. The manufacturers are cranking out .22 as fast they can. 24/7. Wide open. Some are still backlogged for over a year. Where is it going? Why isn't it reaching the smaller stores like it used to? Here's the secret: IT IS.

You see, when your local gun dealer tells you he only got a few boxes of .22, there's a chance he's lying right to your face. He didn't get just a few boxes of .22; He got a whole case. He even might be getting a case a week depending on his back-orders. But he knows he can't charge you 300-500% retail for ammo and have any customers left. So, he only puts maybe 25% of what he received on the shelf. (If it's high quality .22 like, say, CCI Mini-Mags he doesn't put any of it out! It's too hot a commodity to waste on you.) The rest he posts for sale under a fake name on GunBroker. He makes 10 - 30 cents a round from the suckers buying .22 there. And why are they buying it? Because they need .22 ammo and their local shops just can't seem to get any. Isn't that weird?

Now that's capitalism and that's how things work. If he can get that much and he doesn't care about anything but his bottom line then so be it. But capitalism works both ways. If people stopped buying .22 ammo at auction sites there would be no incentive for local FFLs to put their shipments online. They would start putting their .22 back on the shelves and tell their store customers 'Man, it sure is nice that the .22 is finally coming back in, huh?'

So this will go on until people stop buying .22 on auction sites. Let the people on these sites sit on their .22 ammo long enough and they will put it back out on the shelf to move it and make some money. That's the main thing that needs to happen.

If you're buying .22 from GunBroker or some other auction site try to stop. Tells everyone you know not to buy from these places either. Stores like W-mart and Academy are getting .22 regularly but you have to get there early to get any. There are limits to how much you can buy at one time but they are still selling it at the regular price. I haven't seen them price gouging.

Just my 2 cents.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Hobbies; Military/Veterans; Outdoors; Sports
KEYWORDS: 22; ammo; banglist; shortage

1 posted on 01/12/2014 9:39:52 PM PST by servo1969
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To: servo1969

My local Walmarts are always out of stock because the employees buy and resell online instead of putting on the shelves. There is a shortage.


2 posted on 01/12/2014 9:45:36 PM PST by peyton randolph (Proverbs 13:20)
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To: servo1969

I am not buying this line of reasoning. Walmart, Academy etc. are slowly getting more stock and selling them at a reasonable market price. Unfortunately the demand is greater than the supply and is probably about 50% more than two years ago relative to price.

This is good as it means supply is getting close to demand. What one must really worry about is when there is NO SUPPLY!

Do not blame Walmart, Academy etc. The blame for elevated prices is fear of government.


3 posted on 01/12/2014 9:54:00 PM PST by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: servo1969
Federal allocated 20 million rounds for BSA and other youth organizations.

Federal Premium® Ammunition and CCI® Allocate 20 Million Rounds of .22 LR Ammunition for Youth Shooting Sports Programs

4 posted on 01/12/2014 9:58:25 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: servo1969

I haven’t even looked, I have plenty.


5 posted on 01/12/2014 10:05:27 PM PST by TheRhinelander
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To: servo1969
You see, when your local gun dealer tells you he only got a few boxes of .22, there's a chance he's lying right to your face.

My best friend owns a gunshop. You are wrong.

6 posted on 01/12/2014 10:18:59 PM PST by sockmonkey (Of Course I didn't read the article. After all, this is FreeRepublic..)
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To: servo1969

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/01/gun_show_vendors_discuss_2014.html


7 posted on 01/12/2014 10:23:08 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: servo1969

Less people shooting centerfire for enjoyment because they can’t afford it any longer, so it naturally puts a heavier demand on the rimfire.


8 posted on 01/12/2014 10:25:48 PM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
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In 2000 the U.S. Department of the Interior reported that excise taxes on ammunition generated $68 million, whereas in 2012 that figure was $207 million. With inflation taken into account, that’s approximately a 129 percent increase in 12 years. A lot of that growth has taken place in the past few years. Between 2007 and 2012 excise tax money generated from ammunition sales almost doubled from $108 to $207 million. Tax dollars from ammunition sales were stable from the mid-1990s through 2006, but then started to climb fast as gun sales began surging.

To understand what $207 million represents, it’s helpful to know that in 2012 the NSSF estimated the size of the consumer rimfire, center-fire and shotshell market at about 9.5 billion shells and cartridges. That includes U.S. production in addition to imports minus exports. Last October the NSSF predicted there would be more than 10 billion cartridges and shells made for the American consumer market in 2013 as manufacturers attempt to keep pace with consumer demand.

Obviously this massive increase in demand has made it difficult for ammunition makers to keep up. Can you imagine what would happen if the demand for your other favorite products doubled in five years? Wouldn’t they likely be more expensive and harder to find? Also, ammunition production can be difficult to increase quickly because it takes investment in expensive machinery and additional personnel to increase production. Making more ammunition also requires companies to purchase more raw materials in a competitive and international marketplace. Manufacturers also must worry about overinvesting in a market bubble and thereby getting caught overextended in coming months or years.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/why-weve-had-ammunition-shortage


9 posted on 01/12/2014 10:54:15 PM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: servo1969

I haven’t noticed a shortage of ammo for several months. Certain reloading components remain difficult to find however.


10 posted on 01/12/2014 11:05:54 PM PST by RC one
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To: smokingfrog
Making more ammunition also requires companies to purchase more raw materials in a competitive and international marketplace. Manufacturers also must worry about overinvesting in a market bubble and thereby getting caught overextended in coming months or years.

These are valid concerns even in areas that are relatively unregulated such as raw materials (aluminum, copper, iron and so on), where a significant number of companies are losing billions due to overcapacity. Given that state-by-state or federal gun or ammo bans could crater demand very rapidly, it's understandable that ammo-makers are being cautious.

11 posted on 01/12/2014 11:06:13 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: servo1969
There is no difference where the ammo is sold, in stores or on the Internet. If there are 10 million rounds for sale but buyers want only 5 million, what will happen to the other 5 million? You think the gun shop will be sitting on unsold inventory? Unlikely; it takes very deep pockets to execute such an operation. And if the gun shop stops reordering, the supplies pile up, and all other shops get unlimited ammo for sale - which will bring customers to them. The original "hoarder" shop cannot afford that.

What happens in reality is that the sellers are lowering the price, and some buyers decide to buy some more for those lower prices. In the end the natural market forces bring the prices to some sensible level - no matter where the ammo is sold, in stores or on Web sites.

The shortage can be only explained by demand that is higher than production. But I do not understand where would higher demand come from. I haven't bought .22LR in couple of years; it's not a good hunting round, I use .17HMR for that. Limited availability should automatically reduce the demand among those who cannot reach far and wide in search of the ammo. I also do not see people around me who, out of the blue, would get a .22LR firearm and start practicing like mad. The only feasible explanation is that production is reduced, or bought out right off the assembly lines. There are government-level players with deep pockets who can afford such an operation. They can even pay good money for shutting those lines down, and they can order the manufacturers to be silent about that.

Still, it would be weird that .22LR got subjected to such manipulation. It is not a very useful round for anything but training at short distances. If the government wants to disarm the population, it would first try to undermine serious rounds, like .223 and above - and the easiest way to attack those is by restricting availability of primers.

12 posted on 01/12/2014 11:21:14 PM PST by Greysard
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To: servo1969

I have a single .22 rifle. It’s from the 1930s and is a manual-load single shot bolt action. It’s the only thing I have that fires .22 rimfire.

Still, I have a few thousand rounds of Aguila SSS Subsonic for it, and can’t ever imagine shooting it all up in my lifetime.

When I saw it was selling for $0.30/round, my wig almost flew off. Who on Earth needs .22 rimfire so much that they’d be willing to pay that price for it?


13 posted on 01/12/2014 11:30:10 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: peyton randolph

Son works at “Shoot Straight”. There is definitely a shortage of 22 ammo. A friend visiting from Kentucky was visiting South Florida. He can’t get any at home and son’s store has some but can’t get a lot!


14 posted on 01/13/2014 12:06:16 AM PST by Fran B (Love!)
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To: sockmonkey
My best friend owns a gunshop. You are wrong.

I always get a chuckle from this type of post. Does the original poster think that anyone who is willing to pay exorbitant prices for ammo online is going to pay any attention to his wishes that they stop doing it?

I have my own theory... a bunch of newbies who haven't been through this type of thing several times before have bought cheap rimfire guns and are now willing to pay a premium price to stock up on ammo that doesn't kill a bunny or crow any better than a decent pellet gun. A shortage of .22 ammo is far more funny than crisis.

If you need a cheap firearms like experience just shoot pellets or bb’s until the supply catches up with the demand. I have friend who has an air rifle that shoots home cast 180 grain .45 caliber “pellets” at approximately 800 fps. He charges it with a high pressure scuba tank. One slug split a 2 inch thick piece of wood in half that he was using for a target when he came to visit.

Hog taken down with large bore air rifle.

15 posted on 01/13/2014 12:12:18 AM PST by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: servo1969

Instead of theories, you need math.

Prior to the ammo crisis, the U.S. had spare manufacturing capability for an extra 2 Billion rounds of ammo.

Well, what if 100 people in each state were buying a single brick of .22?

That’s 100 people * 1,000 round brick * 50 states = 5 million rounds.

Times 365 days = 1.825 Billion rounds.

Poof! There goes the entire spare manufacturing capability of .22!

It just takes 100 people in each state buying a single brick of .22.

100 people buying a single box of .22, per above, and you’ve got yourself the ammo-equivalent of a bank run!

Math is an amazing thing...


16 posted on 01/13/2014 12:21:38 AM PST by Southack (The one thing preppers need from the 1st World? http://tinyurl.com/ktfwljc .)
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To: Southack

Shuddup....

I hate math....


17 posted on 01/13/2014 12:59:34 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: servo1969

I traded 5 rifles last year for motorcycles, got some outstanding deals, I have 12 now, 4 Goldwings, one is a 95 the other an 85, a 95 Yamaha Virago, an 89 Yamaha Venture Royale. They all run.
Would have cost me over $10,000, maybe more if I paid cash, instead I just traded some guns I have not fired in a decade, now I have several calibers of excess ammo.


18 posted on 01/13/2014 1:08:57 AM PST by Spartan302 (Spartans never quit, they come back later with more warriors. Asymmetrical Warfare.)
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To: Southack
Math is an amazing thing...

Yeah, math is something, but so is real life. First, a brick in my world is 10 boxes of 50. 500 rounds that used to sell for $14-17. If you bought more than one most dealers would throw in an extra box for a total of 550 rounds. I could go into Walmart and find 20 to 30 bricks on the shelf at any time. I could go into a typical gun store and find maybe double that. If they were out of your favorite brand, tell the nice man on the desk and he could get what you wanted by Monday.

That was then. Since Sandy Hook, if you wanted anything, he would tell you that it's on backorder. .22LR, .45, .223, .38, .40 or 9mm didn't make a difference. If you wanted it, it was on backorder.

So what you're telling me is that because some nut shot up a school in Connecticut, everyone thought at the same time that now would be a great time to open a website and sell ammo over the internet? Gee, I wonder why these same folks didn't think of this in any of the highly publicized gun incidences in the past?

Something doesn't smell right about this and I don't think it's a case of 10,000 people that just got this great idea at the same time...

19 posted on 01/13/2014 1:51:41 AM PST by Wingy
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To: servo1969

I’ve been able to buy all the .22LR I want at Dicks Sporting Goods for the past 6 weeks or so, but I get CCI Stingers online from Midway.


20 posted on 01/13/2014 1:57:25 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Jim Noble
" I get CCI Stingers online from Midway."

Not today not yesterday and not tomorrow;-{)


21 posted on 01/13/2014 2:10:52 AM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: servo1969

I buy it online all the time with no problem.


22 posted on 01/13/2014 2:17:21 AM PST by maddog55
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To: servo1969

It is all falling in to the bottom of lakes with all the guns out there. There are lot of unseaworthy gun owners out there


23 posted on 01/13/2014 2:27:11 AM PST by Organic Panic
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To: JoeProBono

I get the notifications, they work.


24 posted on 01/13/2014 2:28:15 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: peyton randolph

The Wal-Mart in Lexington, VA had an empty shelf where the 22 normally sits. The price tag, however, indicated that the quantity of bullets in the box was 40 not 50. So like ice cream and coffee, manufacturers and retailers just sell us less stuff than we’re used to. No half gallon containers of ice cream and no one pound cans of coffee.


25 posted on 01/13/2014 2:51:49 AM PST by KingLudd
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To: servo1969

Delusional.

This is happening everywhere?

Is there not a single honest man in the land.

Oh, right...they are ALL conspiring against YOU.

You might want to look up paranoia.


26 posted on 01/13/2014 3:12:35 AM PST by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Greysard
Still, it would be weird that .22LR got subjected to such manipulation. It is not a very useful round for anything but training at short distances.

Ever go out and shoot just to have fun? I do all the time. I have purchased several 22 LR guns in the past couple of years. I already had three or four but I bought these just because I wanted them. That is why I shoot a lot of 22, because I have fun doing it and I have fun collecting them. There is no other reason.

I also purchased a large quantity of 22 LR back in 2008 and 2009 when they went on sale at Cabela's and another store. I know the prices are high now but I do not have to worry about 22 LR ammo for many more years.

27 posted on 01/13/2014 3:25:21 AM PST by OldMissileer
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To: KingLudd
"...No half gallon containers of ice cream.

Blue Bell Rum Raisin comes in half gallon containers!

YUM! :)

28 posted on 01/13/2014 3:27:53 AM PST by Does so ("Miranda Warnings" and loss of "Common-Law Marriage" = 2 Big Mistakes...)
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To: Jim Noble

I get so much crap e-mail from Midway virtually daily that I trash it all. I wouldn’t want to encourage them by asking for notifications, if you catch my drift. I’ll look elsewhere for my ammo.


29 posted on 01/13/2014 3:30:16 AM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: servo1969

My last order for .22 w/ Cabela’s was made in Dec 2012, and hasn’t been filled yet. I get a new backorder notice each month.


30 posted on 01/13/2014 3:41:08 AM PST by RavenATB
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To: servo1969; All
The manufacturers are cranking out .22 as fast they can. 24/7. Wide open. Some are still backlogged for over a year. Where is it going? Why isn't it reaching the smaller stores like it used to?

The reason .22LR is not on the shelves yet is not because of a vast conspiracy. Rather, it is the ONLY type of ammo which cannot be reloaded at a time when more people are shooting, and more are talking about .22LR as being the next currency.

That's it in a nutshell.

31 posted on 01/13/2014 4:07:47 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: servo1969
I have personally seen why .22lr is always out at the local 24-hr WalMart in my area -- there is a pack of older guys (retired) who are lined up at the sporting goods counter at 5 AM the morning the shipment arrives, and everything is gone within 30 minutes. This has been the case for almost a year now.

It's possible that they're using it all up on a weekly basis but frankly, I doubt it.

32 posted on 01/13/2014 4:50:04 AM PST by Joe Brower (The "American People" are no longer capable of self-governance.)
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To: Wingy
So what you're telling me is that because some nut shot up a school in Connecticut, everyone thought at the same time that now would be a great time to open a website and sell ammo over the internet?

That's the way that technology works. Auction sites have been spreading like wildfire lately; it was only a matter of time before someone made one for guns and ammo.

And Sandy Hook is why we have the ammo shortage. But it it only indirectly tied to Sandy Hook. The direct link is to 0bama and the left-wing conspiracy against the Second Amendment. Every time 0bama talks about a gun ban, the guns start flying off the shelves at every gun store in the country. And at the same time, people start stocking up on ammo in every caliber they may use. That's why you can never find standard pistol calibers on the shelves at Walmart. That's also why you can only rarely find common rifle calibers on the shelves at Walmart. But there are enough of each that occasionally the supply will meet that day's demand. But not everyone has a 9mm, or a .45, or a .223, or a .308. Practically everyone and their mom has at least 1 .22LR (even if it's just for the kids).

33 posted on 01/13/2014 4:54:09 AM PST by lcms rev
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To: Red in Blue PA

IMO, in the very near future ANY ammunition containing LEAD will be banned and outlawed. The cost of a “replacement” component (other than lead) will make ammo too expensive to even sell.

You will NOT be able to posses or use ANY lead containing ammo, PERIOD. We can all blame the California liberals and wacko environmentalist who started this. They are, at this very minute working as hard as possible to eventually be rid of ammunition in general. No ammo? No guns!

This ammunition lead ban needs to be defeated.


34 posted on 01/13/2014 4:56:24 AM PST by DaveA37
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To: servo1969

People don’t seem to appreciate a key tipping point in the supply and demand curve. So long as a stable product is available on demand, demand itself tends to remain low relatively. The moment the demand for that product exceeds supply, demand tends to spike. This is most dramatically seen in gas shortages: nobody worries about getting gas, then just fills up whenever they need it, but the moment there’s any hint of gas being not available, everybody races out and buys up as much as they can topping off whatever containers they can. Likewise, ammunition supply behaves the same. People do not buy all that much ammo a time usually, but when there’s any hint of a shortage everybody wants to buy up as much ammunition as they can - so the demand triples quadruples or more overnight. The supply-chain empties out and suddenly we have a real shortage just because there was a very slight shortage briefly. Of course done this inspires lots of conspiracy theorists to claim all kinds of absurd schemes going on by evildoers in the background.


35 posted on 01/13/2014 6:38:29 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: ctdonath2

Preppers!

Of course, you can’t store something like gasoline for very long, so buying a whole bunch extra wouldn’t do much good. Ammunition will last a very very long time when stored properly, and probably won’t be getting cheaper anytime soon.


36 posted on 01/13/2014 7:01:28 AM PST by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: KingLudd
No half gallon containers of ice cream and no one pound cans of coffee.

What's occurring here is very similar to what happened to Argentina. Prepare accordingly.

37 posted on 01/13/2014 7:07:07 AM PST by peyton randolph (Show me the man and I will find the crime. - Lavrenti Beria)
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To: servo1969

I’ve got several hundred rounds of Federal .22. Unfortunately my auto firearms choke on Federal and I can’t find good Winchester .22 hi-speed anywhere.

Federal makes my auto firearms go pop! pop! pip(jam) pop, POW! pop, pop, pip(jam).

Good only in bolt action rifles and revolvers.


38 posted on 01/13/2014 7:09:33 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: servo1969

There are a number of things happening to generate the shortage:

1. There are more shooters. About a quarter of the record gun sales of the last 5 years are noobies generating higher demand for ammo.
2. There have been large numbers of non shooters buying ammo for investment purposes. Their ammo is stored right next to their Beanie Babies.
3. The idea that 22lr is the legal tender of the future is common and those who feel that this is correct are converting dollars to this new currency.
4. It is quite possible that the new normal for the industry will settle in at 10 to 12 billion rounds as demand seems to be holding steady but supply is increasing.
5. Building new ammo plants is high risk as no one knows if the demand will continue in the next twenty years.
6. I no longer shoot rounds which I cannot reload.


39 posted on 01/13/2014 7:17:36 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: servo1969

The number of NICS checks during the current administration is roughly 86 million including about 20 million noobies.

That is the reason for the shortage.


40 posted on 01/13/2014 8:03:02 AM PST by buffaloguy
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To: Organic Panic

I’ve heard horror stories like that all over the place – thankfully some have marked the side of the boat where it happened to help find where all that stuff is..


41 posted on 01/13/2014 8:21:35 AM PST by HammerT (The COMMONSENSE CIVIL RIGHT OF SELF-DEFENSE is not just a good idea, itÂ’s the LAW OF THE LAND.)
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To: servo1969

Mr. GG2 just scored some .22LR at Walmart for $6.00


42 posted on 01/13/2014 9:30:42 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: ctdonath2

ctdonath2 nailed it.

People don’t want to ever face a shortage of ammo again, so everyone’s goal is to lay in a lifetime supply of ammo as quickly as they can. With the prices of .22LR, this is actually achieveable from a cost standpoint. 20k rnds of .22lr at .06/rnd is only $1200. So, everyone has allocated money in their personal budgets to buy .22lr to stockpile - hence demand outstrips supply and will continue to outstrip supply for the foreseeable future.


43 posted on 01/13/2014 9:54:19 AM PST by altsehastiin
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To: Southack

I’ve noticed what seems like more imported ammo at stores’ sporting goods depts. I’m not sure how foreign sources figure in?

An interesting question, if there is so little capability to “ramp up”, is what happens in the event of a protracted shooting war? How many rounds did our armed forces go through in Vietnam, in, say, 1968? (Yes, I know our armed forces aren’t plinking away with .22’s — this is more of a general question.)

I’m not buying now anyway - prices are too high, I don’t have the spare $$, and I’m not an “enthusiast”. (The biggest thing I’ve “fired” in the last few years is a 800 fps BB gun!)


44 posted on 01/13/2014 12:13:34 PM PST by Paul R. (We are in a break in an Ice Age. A brief break at that...)
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To: Fran B

There’s no shortage in Alberta, come on up.


45 posted on 01/13/2014 12:45:56 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: KingLudd

Most likely the 40 round boxes are American Eagle .22 rounds. Other brands are sold in 50 round boxes.


46 posted on 01/14/2014 6:28:37 PM PST by Redcitizen (Never bring a tank to a Chuck Norris fight.)
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To: Southack

Don’t go ruining a good conspiracy theory with facts and math. :) But I say you’re right.


47 posted on 01/14/2014 6:35:54 PM PST by Redcitizen (Never bring a tank to a Chuck Norris fight.)
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To: servo1969

I was in Academy the other day and the ammo shelves were full of everything.


48 posted on 01/14/2014 6:39:19 PM PST by 38special (For real, y'all.)
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