Skip to comments.WHAT TO DO ABOUT THOSE PESKY “NO-GUNS” SIGNS
Posted on 01/16/2014 8:03:31 AM PST by KeyLargo
ILLINOIS STATE RIFLE ASSOCIATION
WHAT TO DO ABOUT THOSE PESKY NO-GUNS SIGNS
As you may know, the concealed carry law enacted last year ironically includes provisions that will greatly impede your ability to defend yourself against violent criminals. Among these impediments to self defense is a provision allowing private property owners to prohibit concealed firearms on their property. The law requires such property owners to post government-approved no guns allowed signs on property entrances.
As implementation of concealed carry goes forward, more and more of these no guns allowed signs will be springing up in businesses across Illinois. Although law-abiding firearm owners are offended by such signs, most of us accept that private property owners are free to limit access to their property as they see fit. Nonetheless, the placement of such signs poses some serious public policy implications to those who honor free exercise of basic human rights.
In practical terms, the official no guns allowed sign actually declares, No Self Defense Permitted Beyond this Point. Thus, a property owner who posts a no guns allowed sign is telling you point blank, I dont care if you and your family are in danger, I will not allow you to defend yourself. The net effect of the property-owners self-righteous indignation is that anyone who enters the posted property unarmed is being set up for violent attack.
The beauty of concealed carry is that only handful of citizens need to be armed in order to protect the greater part of society from harm. This benefit arises out of the fact that would-be criminals are never really sure which citizens around them may be armed. As a result, their criminal urges may be stifled in the interest of not getting shot.
Given the deterrent value of concealed carry, the posting of no guns allowed signs openly invites criminals to enter a business to commit mayhem without the fear of facing an armed citizen. Under the concealed carry statute, persons licensed to carry must obey these signs. By their very nature, criminals will not be deterred by a plastic pictogram stuck to a window. Consequently, armed criminals will be absolutely assured that nobody in the establishment is capable of warding off their violent behavior. No guns allowed signs give a distinct advantage to those who seek to harm others.
For thugs who may be too shy to perform for an audience, the parking lots of no guns allowed establishments would be little more to their liking. It would be a given that anyone leaving such a business would be unarmed and, thus, easy pickings for robbers or rapists. Likewise, these criminals would be free to burglarize cars in the parking lot to harvest guns dutifully left behind by permit holders who enter the antigun business.
All in all, its distinctly possible that posting a no guns allowed sign makes patronizing a business more dangerous now that concealed carry has been passed than it had been to patronize the same store before the passage of concealed carry.
Quite a few people have contacted ISRA headquarters to report businesses that have posted no guns allowed signs. Many of the people ask how they should respond to the posting of such signs. Below are our recommendations.
1. Carrying a concealed firearm in to an establishment bearing an official no guns allowed sign is not lawful and should not be attempted.
2. Business owners who post no guns allowed signs consider lawful firearm owners to be social outcasts. Therefore, those businesses should be avoided, but not without first hearing how displeased you are with their decision. We recommend that you ask to see the manager and then politely tell him or her that you are a lawful firearm owner and that you disagree with their position on concealed carry. Advise the manager further that, as long as the offensive sign is posted, you will not spend money at their establishment and that you will tell all your friends to avoid doing business with them as well.
3. Reward businesses who allow concealed carry by spending money in their establishments.
4. Remain active in the gun rights movement at a local level.
5. Join the ISRA.
6. Donate to the ISRA so that we may carry on the fight to preserve, protect, and enhance gun rights in the state.
Follow the ISRA on Twitter and Facebook.
Give the gift of an ISRA membership. Not an ISRA Member? Join Today!
Cook County leading concealed carry applications
31 minutes ago Associated Press
SPRINGFIELD, Ill. | Illinois State Police say almost one in four of the roughly 23,000 people who’ve applied for concealed carry permits live in Cook County.
Figures released this week show the highly populated county leading the rankings with more than 5,300 applications that have been filed since Jan. 5.
Will and DuPage counties followed in second and third with almost 1,800 and 1,600 applications respectively.
But on a per capita basis, rural counties have the highest proportion of applicants.
“WHAT TO DO ABOUT THOSE PESKY NO-GUNS SIGNS?”
Those businesses should be avoided!
A little “guerilla stickering” might be called for.
On the window under/over the no guns sign,
post a sticker that says “Notice to Criminals - Unarmed Victim Zone”.
I am not familiar with the latest Illinois mess of laws to skirt the SCOTUS rulings. It sounds like recent state law has bestowed legal ramifications beyond trespassing upon persons otherwise legal at the whim of private business owners.
For those that do not know, in most states (that I am aware of), there is no legal authority or action beyond trespassing that can be taken against a legal citizen who does not recognize or conform to a posted “no guns” sign on an establishment that has not been designated specifically by law (ie. schools, government buildings, etc.).
In other words, a business can ask you to leave the premises if you are carrying (concealed or otherwise). If you refuse, they can call the police on you for trespassing. It seems Illinois is now radically different.
IL law patterns KS law on a state-specified sign being a legal notice that can result in charges beyond simple trespass. So IL is not the only place. My home state of OK follows your description on simple trespass for failing to leave when told.
As to the overall ISRA material, my problem remains with the treatment of firearms as an onerous civil right that can be restricted at a whim. Years ago, many restaurants posted signage about “reserving the right to refuse service to anyone” and that’s been trumped by the various civil rights acts since 1965.
Your no gun sign prevents me from patronizing your business. So I, my family, and other gun owners will spend our money with your competitors. Look on the back to see why you should remove your sign.
Your no gun sign is bad for business. It does nothing to make you safer. It simply tells criminals youre an easy target and drives away good customers with a concealed carry license.
Unlike most people, license holders have passed a criminal background check. Statistics show we are far more law-abiding than the general public. Our numbers are growing every day. We are ideal customers and will patronize your business if you let us. Remove your sign and I, my family, and many other gun owners will gladly return.
Buckeye Buckeye Firearms
Funny thing, but the number of businesses which have those signs up now is a fraction of the number back when the Concealed Carry law was originally passed.
Vandalism won’t help the cause.
Just take your business elsewhere.
Consider a form letter to the manager of such places telling the manager that you have been a customer for a long time, but cannot, in good faith, do business with anyone who would put politics and political correctness over the safety of its customers by not allowing them to defend themselves.
If you have one of those signs on your house, are the cops allowed to bring their guns in??
There was an argument before me between the manager and a customer at my local credit union in Florida. The customer was complaining about a “no firearms on premises” sign. The manager, a known lefty, pointed out she did not want firearms present because someone may misstake them for a robber (it is concealed, not open carry btw) and she pays to have an armed police officer present to protect persons on the property. The guy said so what about the parking lot and what about those places I go to before I come here or where I intend to go when I leave? She looked like deer in the headlights at that one and simply continued that was their policy. I just said nothing and went about my business, armed. I abide by the premise better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Here in Texas, a business establishment has to place a State Approved sign (30.06) on their point of entry for it to be valid. Check your State Law to verify the validity of the signage before you enter.
Besides, if you are truly carrying concealed, how would they know if you are armed or not? :-)
If caught, though, you lose your CCHL forever...
Cards are good, but a letter is better. No one gets mail nowadays.
It would also seem to me to be opening up the store to liability if there is a shooting and someone who had the legal ability to defend themselves was denied that ability by the store. Negligent security.
Yes, that is another angle...
by posting that sign, Mr. Store Owner, you are assuming full liability for the security of the patrons of your store.
On occasion I have gone through the effort of asking a manager about signs when I have seen them. At two places (Gander Mountain and a Wireless service and device store) I was told that those signs don’t pertain to law abiding customers who have concealed carry licenses. When I asked who the signs are for then, it seemed to occur to them, quite spontaneously, how ridiculous the signs were.
“So you have those signs up to deter criminals from bringing guns into your store? Is that the purpose? Isn’t that like posting “no swimming” signs at pools to deter fish from swimming in them?” -— I actually used that line and will continue to do so. I’m so clever. :o)
And in other news.
French Consul Accused of Racism For Advising Citizens To Avoid Walking In Bostons High Crime Areas After Dark
Students called the Foreign Ministrys travel warnings racist, noting they advised French nationals to avoid areas mainly where members of minority groups live.
Advise the business owner that if their patrons are prohibited the means to defend themselves and if the business owners don’t take positive steps to prevent criminals from illegally harming their patrons, then the business owners will be liable if their patrons suffer harm from any criminal acts for which their legal customers are prohibited from defending themselves against.
WIN! Signs coming down at Wal-Mart
January 15, 2014
Weve seen reports that Wal-Mart is taking down the No Guns signage, thanks to gun owners politely contacting them and explaining the confusion the signs were causing. GSL joined with other gun rights groups in encouraging gun owners to make their voices heard and with a little tact and finesse, it seems the signs are coming down as we wanted.
Nice job, everyone!
We will update this as we have a chance to run it down.
Just got off the phone with Beverly, the district manager Kevin Haneys assistant.
She confirmed reports weve read and heard that Wal-Mart has reversed itself and will be removing the No Guns (for on-duty staff and vendors) signage from all of the Illinois stores in the coming days.
Kevin got the initial email from corporate on their decision on this earlier today, because his eight stores in central Illinois generated the most comments and concerns to corporate of any district in Illinois.
Kudos to all of you, right in the heart of Guns Save Life territory, for getting involved to get Wal-Mart to make the right decision to pull the signs.
Beverly did say that corporate legal people were working on the language of the final order to remove the signs but that should be a done deal by the end of the week at the latest and signs should start coming down very shortly after that.
Again, fabulous work, folks!
This entry was posted on January 15, 2014 at 1:44 pm and is filed under Blog. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
2 comments on WIN! Signs coming down at Wal-Mart UPDATED
Armed citizen truncates crazed mans mass attack
January 15, 2014
Once again, we see that the only thing that stops a bad person with evil in their heart is a good guy with a gun.
In Portland, a disgruntled man with no shortage of previous arrests thought he was going to show them after getting turned away from admission for being an obnoxious jerk. He returned wearing a Halloween mask and carrying a gun and opened fire.
Thank you for the good new KeyLargo, Guns up!
And in other news:
In America, How Does Such a Thing Happen?
Jan. 15, 2014 4:49pm Jason Howerton
On the surface, John Filippidis seems to be just the kind of responsible gun owner who should carry a concealed firearm. Hes a family man, small business owner and taxpayer who takes the responsibility of gun ownership seriously.
Those Politically Correct Solutions can kill you.
January 16, 2014 Miguel G
A so-called panic button, which is designed to alert a schools main office to a classroom emergency, reportedly didnt work after a Key Largo School teacher pushed his repeatedly while a third-grader threatened to shoot and stab his classmates last week.
The threat was apparently just that, and the boy did not have a weapon. But the schools reaction to the situation sparked outrage among concerned parents who say they were never informed about the incident until after a child told his parents and that couple posted it on Facebook several days later.
via Classroom panic button didnt work during threat at Key Largo School Florida Keys MiamiHerald.com.
One more time: In case of death or grave bodily harm, it is PULL THE TRIGGER, not PUSH THE ALARM BUTTON.
As the Opposition loves to say: How many more childrens bodies have to fall for the common sense to be exercised?
And in other news:
Jan 16, 2014
Harvey Weinstein Wants to Destroy the NRA and Leave Us Unprotected
Posted 4 hours ago by Gary DeMar Filed under 2nd Amendment, Constitution, Crime, Entertainment, Gun Control, History, Liberalism, Low Information Voters, Police Brutality, Politics
Movie producer Harvey Weinstein announced on Howard Sterns radio show that he wants to destroy the National Rifle Association.
Weinstein told Stern, I shouldnt say this, but Ill tell it to you, Howard, Im going to make a movie with Meryl Streep, and were going to take this head-on. And theyre going to wish they werent alive after Im done with them.
And in other news:
NY Gun Control Groups, Pols Double Down on SAFE Act
By Robert Farago on January 16, 2014
Or not (courtesy wivb.com)
Hows that compromise thing working out for New York gun owners? A press release (after the jump) from a fanatic of civilian disarmament advocates celebrating the first anniversary reveals that Empire State anti-gunners are looking to build on the historic NY Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement Acts (NY SAFE Act) widely popular provisions. Specifically, they want to enact MA-style Child Access Prevention (stored guns must be rendered inoperative), Unicorn-based cartridge ID creation (i.e. microstamping), One Gun A Month purchase limits, ten-day waiting period for firearms purchases, immediate firearms confiscation during domestic abuse calls (without due process), a ban on 50-Caliber Military-Style Sniper Rifles, requiring gun dealers to call the cops for failed NICS background checks, and background checks for gun dealer employees. Strangely, outright confiscation was not mentioned . . .
Walmart continues to exemplify the behavior of successful “big business”. While many excoriate their aggressive business to business practices as heavy handed and unfair, their business model, mission of keeping prices low for customers and bending to the demands of their customers per location is the reason for their continued and unprecedented global success.
They will not be bullied by anyone except customers. They will force all levels of executives to behave and spend in accordance with their mission and have laser like focus on the goals. At the same time, despite what liberals and media would have you believe, they pay comparably fair wages and do take care of their workforce.
Love them or hate them, you have to admire their success and the reasons for it.
Items 5 and 6 were certainly predictable.
Depends on state law - if it’s simple trespass, that’s usually a misdemeanor. Above that, there may be an impact on his license but it’s still dependent on state law.
They started popping up around here when Mississippi affirmed open carry... complaining to the businesses and avoiding them while the signs are displayed have caused some of them to disappear.
Libtards and their “ideas” are hazardous to Children and all other living things.
I’m hoping he has a Matt Damon-like experience from his foray into being anti-fracking with his recent agit-prop film “Promised Land.”
Free as a bird, guilty as sin!! I think I heard that somewhere before, hum, who was that? Oh I know, the commie terrorist who wrote O turd’s books for him.
I am glad to hear the Mississippi has open carry! I hope the Louisiana and Texas get it too. And yes, all responsible gun owners should do most of the shopping at gun friendly businesses.
What about walking in and asking if you can check your firearm at the front desk while you patronize the business? (You don’t actually have to packing, but could do this just to see the reaction.)
no-gun zone means civil liability.
have the lawyers lined up and ready to go.
In 6 months, I have only seen one open carry person. Most everyone carries concealed... but the right is there and affirmed!
“Here in Texas, a business establishment has to place a State Approved sign (30.06) on their point of entry for it to be valid.”
More to the point, only bars and restauraunts that bust the 51% booze revenue law can legally put those up -— and churches I think.
“I am glad to hear the Mississippi has open carry! I hope the Louisiana and Texas get it too. And yes, all responsible gun owners should do most of the shopping at gun friendly businesses.”
I have a CHL in New Mexico (and routintely carry in Texas).
NM is open carry, so I never worry about accidently showing my gun (e.g., coat lifts up and people see).
TX they’ve got stories about people getting arrested for “imprinting” -— a concealed gun that is visible as a buldge and such.
Just seeing that signage is enough to make me do an abrupt about-face and leave.
In Texas there are two different signs that restrict a concealed handgun license holder from carrying into a place of business. They are a 30.06 sign, and a 51% sign.
A 30.06 sign is a sign that a business owner can post to restrict a CHL holder from entering the business with a concealed handgun. The sign must contain the exact words required by Section 30.06 in both English and Spanish, be placed in an area visible to the public, and have 1” lettering or it will not be considered a legally-binding 30.06 sign. “Gunbuster” signs, or signs with a red slash through a gun, are not considered valid 30.06 postings.
A 51% sign is a sign that a business is required by law to post if 51% of their revenue is obtained through on-premises drinking, such as at a bar. Unfortunately this also has the consequence of not allowing CHL holders to enter the premises where the drinking is taking place while carrying their handgun.
Additional places are not required to post a sign to forbid CHL holders from entering the premises with their handgun as Texas law already forbids it, such as court houses and educational institutions.
In essence, one must exercise COMMON SENSE as well as being up to speed on the Law. Then again, part of the requirement in obtaining a CHL IS being familiar with the Law.
Let such businesses die a swift and painful death.
Give your business to someone who deserves it!
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