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Why communism didnít have its own Nuremberg?
interia.pl ^ | May 8, 2013 | prof. Andrzej Nowak

Posted on 02/16/2014 6:05:35 PM PST by annalex

Why communism didn’t have its own Nuremberg?

translation: fb.com/SayNOtocommunism

The Nazis were trialed during the Nuremberg Trials, while communism, the most criminal system in the history of human kind still remains with impunity. Who is to be blamed? The Soviets? The Americans? Or maybe Western media and universities, dominated by leftist thinking? Prof. Andrzej Nowak replies to these and other questions.

Image

The efforts of realising the communist ideology ended up with annihilation of at least 100 million people

/Istockphoto

Tony Judt, an American historian and a disappointed intellectual who died short time ago noticed in his last book (which was written as conversations run by Timothy Snyder) that 20th century was the age of intellectuals.

Brave New Omelette and broken eggs

It was also the age of the biggest mass crimes. The idea of bulding a new, better world behind those crimes was carried out on the greatest scale by communism. And it was the intellectuals who were able – and still are able – to justify those crimes, still dreaming about making the perfect omelette from human abilities. They also justify this laudable idea with every broken egg, every life used. Because it is not their life.

Attempts to make the communist ideology real led to annihilation of at least 100 million people. Let us imagine that suddenly France and England are gone, or even the whole US East Coast – from Boston and New York to Miami. This would be 100 million people. But victims of communism died somewhere else, in such uninteresting places like Katyn, Kolyma, somewhere in China, Vietnam, Cuba. Who would care about them – in the big political and intellectual world of elites Western Europe or American East Coast.

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Russia – prisoners from gulag building the White Sea Canal (Byelomorski Canal)

/Laski Diffusion / East News

Why communism remains not trialed?

First of all, because it was approved that it did not lose, but it was kind enough to share the responsibility and power with its slaves and made an agreement (a compromise) with the West. This version was suitable with political interests of the status quo defenders – both for those from US Department of State and for those who were invited to various round tables.

The second reason is that the communist ideology has made in the last 90 years a WINNING march through various media and educational institutions of the West. The universities of Western Europe and America as much as editorial offices of the most influential media are dominated by so-called caviar left (gauche caviar) who constantly undust the bust of old good Marx (if not Stalin and Mao).

Since the beginning of the 90’s I regularly visit academic bookstores in the biggest cities of the West. I always look at the shelves with philosophy. After a short break, just after 1990, marxism again reigns on them. Now it has a separate part of bookshelves and it is much better supplied with books than the other parts of philosophy. From Louis Althusser to Slavoj Zizek – marxist inspiration rules.

The victims aren’t “fashionable”…

Right now the emperor of this wisdom is Alain Badiou, a French fan of Mao. Very popular is Eric Howsbawm, an English historian and communist, in his texts easily absolving (forgiving) crimes commited in the name of the “beautiful idea”. Quite a new star is Terry Eagleton, trying to match christianism with hard marxism.

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Skulls of people murdered by NKVD soldiers

AFP / AFP

Generally, the dominating issues are the critics of capitalism, especially America, liberalism, religion and the horrible “middle class” (bourgeoisie). A very percipient study, contained in the three-volume study of the totalitarian temptation, written by Leszek Kolakowski, remains covered with dust. Few people refer to it. What really is a market product is the hatred towards the West, the political, economic and ethic system, on which it was based. And who would be better to sell this hatred than good old Marx?

Among these opinion-forming circles the victims of communism are not “fashionable”. When the Latvian minister of culture, Sandra Kalniete, dared to demand for memory of the victims of communism during the opening of the book fair in Leipzig in 2004, she raised a great European scandal. How is it possible? When at the same time in Portugal there’s a world congress of more than 100 communist parties’ representatives, Europe would condemn the heritage of Marx and Lenin? Remember about some “Russian peasants” who died of hunger, about Polish “reactionist” officers shot in the middle of nowhere, about priests crucified in the name of the progress? It’s pure fascism!

Let’s ask about North Corea

Communism still remains the hope of the humand kind… Surprisingly none of these intellectuals, who proclaim this belief wants to notice that communism is still implemented practically in North Corea. I really want to ask you: do you truly want to build the second, improved Democratic People’s Republic of Korea?

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A poster “Chinese enemy of the people” on Beijing streets, 1996

AFP/ AFP

Or maybe in the name of these noble ideas you would be ready to take the slaves dying of hunger from Korean communist camps under your roof? Let’s say, ten for each editor of “Krytyka Polityczna” in Warsaw, twenty for each marxist-professor in Paris, Rome or New York, two for every student fascinated with communism, a hundred for every influential editors from the most popular newspaper, magazines and TV – from BBC and CNN up to their poor copies in Poland. And so – hundreds of thousands of communism victims, suffering right now, would be relieved… It would be quite better than “suspended” coffee in Starbucks.

From the question about North Korea we could start a conversation with all defenders of communism heritage – if they were ready to talk. But they are probably not. “Hell is other people” – it’s an aforism of Jean Paul Sartre, a French philosopher, one the gurus of counterculture revolt of the 60’s and a consequent admirer of Mao Zedong. People like him don’t like talking about facts. So let us remind them some facts.

Communism did not win in democratic elections

Communism is an old ideology. It was already introduced in Plato’s “State”, 24 centuries ago. But it was Karl Marx who gave it a form of mature ideology in the middle of 19th century. The prophet of revolution and annihilation of the old world was expressing hope to create a new, better man and to improve the human nature. And he was justifying violence with this great hope.

The first lesson was given by the Paris Commune in 1871, which executed their enemies, until it was damped down. The new man wasn’t created yet, a lot of “old” people were killed, especially priests (among them the bishop of Paris). But not these victims were remembered, but rather big indeed – victims of repressions aimed against the Commune. A nice legend remained.

The next attempt to introduce the communist utopia was more spectacular. It was done in Russia. And just like in any other case, communism did not win in democratic elections, but was forced with violence by the minority of determined and organised activists of the ideology.

A symbolic monument of Cain

Let’s remember: communism and democracy, like communism and freedom, refer to one question which was asked in the best way by Lenin, the leader of the revolution in Russia. The question is: who, whom? This is the essence of communism – fight for life and death, and mainly for death. Communism or democracy. Communism or freedom. In order to win the revolution in Russia Lenin needed to create the first totalitarian political police in the world: Cheka (Chrezvychaynaya Kommisiya, Emergency Commission). After overthrow in Pietrogrod in 1917 he made Feliks Dzierzynski the head of this office. Who wishes to see how this organisation worked can find the film by Alexander Rogoshkin “The Chekist” (1992). It is the best shown “factory belt” of killing. Only in the years 1937-1938 the officials of this institution (known from now on as NKVD) shot more than 670 thousand “enemies”.

But shooting was not enough. Communism immediately needed to make the next step: the right hand of Lenin in the work of the revolution, Leon Trotsky in 1918 gave an order to create concentration camps. The first was settled in Sviyazhsk next to Kazan. Trotsky commanded to build a monument of Cain in the middle of the camp – as a symbol of the rebellion against God.

GULAG – rebellion against God

And indeed, GULAG, the system of camps, started by Trotsky is the most shocking monument of man’s revolt against God, and precisely against the fifth commandment: You shall not murder.

The defenders of communism like to remind that concentration camps had been created before – English made them during the war with Boers in south Africa. It is true. But let’s stay close to facts: British camps were to isolate civil people from partisants only during the war time. And right after it they were disbanded. Due to illnesses and hunger 27 thousand people died in them. It was a crime, although it was not planned.

The camps in the Soviet country “worked” for more than 70 years. According to Robert Conquest, at least 42 million people died in gulags. If English camps in south Africa were a crime, what were camps who were created to build communism?

After Soviet Union they were “needed” in China (another tens of millions of victims), in Vietnam, in Cuba, Korea, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland… Every victim had a name and a surname, everyone was someone, like Osip Mandelsztam, the biggest 20th century Russian poet (martyred in GULAG in 1938), or like Wasyl Stus, the biggest 20th century Ukrainian poet (died in GULAG in 1985, when Gorbaczov was governing the Soviet Union)…

Rifle butts and lack of faith in supremacy of communism

There were other great “experiments” of creating a new Soviet man in the process of modernising the whole society: elimination of religion, getting rid of “rich peasants” and collectivisation (collective farming), fight with the Ukrainian “nationalistic element” (the operation “Great Famine”) or Polish (NKVD operation from 1937: 111,091 people shot). During each of these operation there were between hundreds of thousands and a few million people dead.

Later on, in the name of strengthening the homeland of the world proletariat, the allience with Hitler was needed. The red star with swastika, the red banner of the Comintern next to the brown symbol of the Third Reich. The Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, the partition of Poland and aggression on Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland. And again massive exile, executions and finally the symbol of the series of Soviet success: Katyn genocide.

Then friendship with Hitler ends, and war begins – finalised by conquering half of Europe. In Warsaw, Prague, Budapest, Sophia or Bucarest communism gloats. But not because the citizens of these countries wanted it, but because this system was forced: by outside violence coming from Soviets. They did not want this “beautiful idea”. It had to be done, as Milosz wrote, with Soviet stocks and rifles, using them to get rid of “alienation” from these dumb-heads. Alienation meant disbelief in supremacy of communism over freedom and “old” identity.

“Hungry mob from Eastern Europe”

The outside, imperial, soviet violence supported minor communist organisations in conquested countries and it gave them the power. Using the backup of the red Moscow, the Red Army and NKVD divisions (for example in Poland until 1947 there were present 2 NKVD divisions) these organisations – like “our” PPR, then PZPR – were becoming more stable, they were getting bigger, they were protecting themselves by using structured violence and their own “chekists”, they were building camps for their “enemies” and shooting them, killing on the streets – like in 1956, 1970 or in 1981-82. They were becoming stronger, also in numbers.

These millions of people who were taking crucial positions in the whole power structure were interested in not letting communism be condemned because by doing it their own well-being would be discredited, as much as their bonds with their uncles and mommies from NKVD, UB (Ministry of Public Security), KPZR (Communist Party) and from the nomenklatura. They were too strong in the controlled societies in order to let it happen.

And when it was clear that communist system will lose the global chase with the West, political leaders of western states – such as George Bush senior or Francois Mitterand – all they wanted was to avoid troubles and new responsibility for “hungry mob from Eastern Europe”.

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Cambodia: the leader of the Red Kmers, Pol Pot and bones of victims murdered during his dictatorship – during 3.5 years 2.5 million people died (out of a 7.5 million country)

AFP/ AFP

Communism and hopes of elites

“It’d be better if Soviet Union didn’t end too early” – said Bush during his visit in Kiev in 1991. Moscow, even “red”, is a stable partner for interimperial games. It is a partner for finest economic business. It was known to Helmut Schmidt, chancellor of FRG (West Germany) who developed gas agreement with Moscow’s Brezhnev.

The most cynical Realpolitik and hope for business profits close the eyes for communist crimes. The attachment of intellectual elites of Western Europe and America to their own ideological hatred keeps alive their hopes that communism is the only beautiful alternative for the world, which these elites would love to destroy.

The fact that this alternative was already built and implemented makes them even more proud. Communism is wonderful – repeated Hobsbawm – because it was no longer a theory but became a practice. This practice killed millions, so much the worse for the victims of this “great experiment”.

Andrzej Nowak

Professor Andrzej Nowak is a historian, publicist, lecturer at the JagiellonianUniversity. He works at the Institute of History of PolishAcademy of Science.

The text was published at Interia.pl - http://fakty.interia.pl/swiat/news-dlaczego-komunizm-nie-mial-swojej-norymbergi,nId,964171


TOPICS: History; Society
KEYWORDS: bolshevism; communism; nuremberg; ussr
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The anonymous translator attached this note:

Polish readers may have already found a marvelous article by professor Andrzej Nowak of Jagiellonian University in Cracow about communism.

http://fakty.interia.pl/swiat/news-dlaczego-komunizm-nie-mial-swojej-norymbergi,nId,964171

After reading this summary, I came up to a conclusion that still people among the world (especially in the Western world, but not only) are unaware of the subject.

The reasons for it are very different and I wouldn’t like to call everyone an ignorant. The propaganda is very strong and some may not have had a chance to learn these facts.

But coming from a country like Poland and seeing admirers of Mao, Che Guevara and Marx, who worship them as the greatest idealists and philosophers of the world makes me sick.

Surprisinly so much energy is used to find and condemn people who follow Adolf Hitler, so why so little is being done about Stalin, for example?

I have prepared an English translation of the article by prof. Nowak.

I have no purpose of earning any money nor to violate any laws.

My idea is to make non-Polish speaking people able to read this text.

That’s all.

If you have any questions please write: saynotocommunism@wp.pl


1 posted on 02/16/2014 6:05:35 PM PST by annalex
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To: A.A. Cunningham; andyk; BatGuano; bayliving; Belteshazzar; bert; Bibman; Bigg Red; bigheadfred; ...

If you want to be on this right wing, monarchy, paleolibertarianism and nationalism ping list, but are not, please let me know. If you are on it and want to be off, also let me know. This ping list is not used for Catholic-Protestant debates.


2 posted on 02/16/2014 6:07:49 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

It was by comparison, a fairly minor happening but everyone should watch the movie “Katyn” about the murder of the entire Polish officer corps by the Soviets.

I always thought it unbelievably ironic to have Soviet Judges presiding at Nuremberg trials.


3 posted on 02/16/2014 6:09:48 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: annalex

^ ^ well deserved bump ^ ^


4 posted on 02/16/2014 6:11:30 PM PST by tomkat (sooner/better)
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To: annalex

BUMP!


5 posted on 02/16/2014 6:14:52 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: annalex
“It’d be better if Soviet Union didn’t end too early” – said Bush during his visit in Kiev in 1991

The infamous "Chicken Kiev" statement.

6 posted on 02/16/2014 6:14:58 PM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: yarddog

Very difficult to watch. Also available on Youtube.

7 posted on 02/16/2014 6:20:49 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Fiji Hill

It did not “end too early”. They are building the improved version on a reduced scale.


8 posted on 02/16/2014 6:22:09 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

What is there to add? Nothing, except a feeling of shame for our leaders, and public so easily fooled by a century of Communist propaganda from out lets such as the New York Times, and the idiotic myth of Nazism, dead since 1945, as the ultimate and everlasting evil and danger to the present paradise.

While Communism still thrives and murders in several places around the globe, and Che Guevara T-shirts sell millions on college campuses.


9 posted on 02/16/2014 6:23:57 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: annalex
North Corea

Huh? Is that Huntington's North Corea?

On a serious note, the Killing Fields in Cambodia were, in theory, what the UN was intended to prevent / stop. Which tells you how much use the UN really is.

10 posted on 02/16/2014 6:26:41 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: annalex
Why communism remains not trialed?

First of all, because it was approved that it did not lose, but it was kind enough to share the responsibility and power with its slaves and made an agreement (a compromise) with the West. This version was suitable with political interests of the status quo defenders – both for those from US Department of State and for those who were invited to various round tables.

The second reason is that the communist ideology has made in the last 90 years a WINNING march through various media and educational institutions of the West. The universities of Western Europe and America as much as editorial offices of the most influential media are dominated by so-called caviar left (gauche caviar) who constantly undust the bust of old good Marx (if not Stalin and Mao).

Since the beginning of the 90’s I regularly visit academic bookstores in the biggest cities of the West. I always look at the shelves with philosophy. After a short break, just after 1990, marxism again reigns on them. Now it has a separate part of bookshelves and it is much better supplied with books than the other parts of philosophy. From Louis Althusser to Slavoj Zizek – marxist inspiration rules.

There you have it! The root of every problem we have in this nation today can be traced back to a dishonest corrupt media and academia (they are one and the same). When they finally succeed in taking this nation down.....we need a Nuremberg type trial for every one of these folks!

This thread needs posted once a week for the next two years.

11 posted on 02/16/2014 6:27:02 PM PST by Carbonsteel
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To: annalex

First...very interesting post

Communism sure will never be tried...look at all the folks on here who continue to support Free Trade with Communist China!

You think there will be any prosecution of Communists when we have so many folks, on a conservative site, praising the Peoples Republic of China...and even some of them going as far as “Commie China is more open for business than USA”

It wasn’t too long ago economically supporting a Communist enemy got you executed for treason. Now, you have folks claiming to be conservative supporting the largest, most deadliest ever Communist nation

You should hear the folks squeal when “tariffs on Communist China” are mentioned....


12 posted on 02/16/2014 6:27:43 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Diversity is just racism against white folks)
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To: All

Globalism is the new communism. Putin’s variant is an old-fashioned dinosaur version at odds with the new globalist consensus. What makes this new variety so dangerous is that no particular country is the sponsor. The academic left are the brains behind it. We ignore this challenge at the peril of losing our freedom within a generation. Freedom of speech and freedom of academic inquiry have already seen nearly fatal blows from globalism, especially its new science, climate change, the theory that basically says any weather you see should make you subservient to globalism.


13 posted on 02/16/2014 6:28:50 PM PST by Peter ODonnell (It wasn't this cold before global warming)
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To: SeminoleCounty

NAZIISM and Japanese Imperialism were not just defeated they were utterly discredited.

Communism has not really been defeated


14 posted on 02/16/2014 6:30:58 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: annalex

The Chekist on Youtube (English subtitres)

15 posted on 02/16/2014 6:35:54 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

The Soviets had their own show trials, basically. They acted mostly through neiborhood denunciations and tedious fabrications of evidences of wrong doing. Their purges involved extensive demoralization of their targets along with tortures and demands of admissions of guilt until they broke.

Thus communism was more a suicide PC cult than a direct murder cult and thus it made it much more vicious and difficult to track.

Today the media masquerade is pretty similar, one involving making innocent an arab-street known to cooperate with terrorists as obvious agents, but then making them look like they are just normal families doing weddings.

This is all a masquerade.

Also the Geneva convention of turning war into some kind of sports with a non-existing referee is absolutely outrageous and part of the problem, because the nations following these rules that go beyond mere punishment of crime against humanity, have been used to blackmail the West.

Then we got the grand masquerade role play of unmasking Hitler before unmasking Stalin, a typical war alliance scenario ploy. WWII could have happened with Europe allied with Hitler against Stalin, but it did not happen that way... Hitler was unmasked as a more immediate enemy and had to be vilified more urgently and determinedly to justify the war effort.

This justification did not want to dig further in the case of Stalin because of pure cowardice. It simply is that the Nuremberg trials were not the genesis of Western determination in WWII, but simply a political tool product that was not meant to be furthered beyond its use in the prosecution of the war against Germany.

Much like today’s reverse racism in America, the Civil Rights are not applied universally against black racism and obvious black in-race inbreeding, despite it following a very tradition of Demorcrat slavery of inbreeding blacks to make them hard worker or ... Basket Ball players.

Hitler chose Socialism but morphed it immediately into some sort of misguided grotesque nationalism survival of superiority by pure racial historicisms and not historical veracity. The Soviets got to play the more feminist card as a result of opposition and masquerading as a victim. THe Soviets however did have their own progressist views of race superiorizing and combined usage of armies of tools (half-ape and half human). Nazies had pure race nonsense for their pride, the Soviets had an anticipationist extra-terrestrial like race of progress.

However the language of progress was clear, it was one of equal or greater corruption than Nazi loot.

Because just as the Nazis viewed Jews as backwards and demanded them to surrender their inheritences, so is the language of progressism, demanding that current generations abandon their treasures to the Soviet Apparatus as trophies.


16 posted on 02/16/2014 6:38:54 PM PST by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: SeminoleCounty; All

“It wasn’t too long ago economically supporting a Communist enemy got you executed for treason.”

I do not recall a single case. Please refresh my memory.


17 posted on 02/16/2014 6:39:54 PM PST by marktwain (The old media must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: annalex

To the Left, everything I don’t like is fascism, to the Right, illustrated on this forum, everything I don’t like is Communism.

Well, China today is not Communism, neither is Russia. Murderous Communism is North Korea, and Cuba, to which we stopped paying attention when we don’t travel there as tourists, concerned as we are with tariff free tchotchkes from China. And the author writes of the past well known crimes of Communism that we prefer to forget about, while we continue call our opponents on Internet ‘Nazis’!


18 posted on 02/16/2014 6:48:17 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: SeminoleCounty

I hear you. The Chinese charade is disgusting.

THe biggest lie is that CHina needs the economy.

NO! The greedies and government backed fascist companies all the way to food stamp people funding WalMart groceries ARE THE ONES NEEDING CHINA.

Watch the product of food stamp loot WalMArt and Wal-of-China-MArt. This looting is ominous. A real or manufactured Earth Quake in Beijing would force them to sell US bonds and bam, we would be pouring more money out there or go completely bankrupt.

This is the kinds of writings in the wall that are getting ignored or hushed under the carpet.

China is a continued history of gangsters and terrorism. They never will have an understanding of normal free choice fund raising capitalism. For them it is always feed the thug on top. For them it is about profit and “fun” paranoia money, not about getting or spreading instruction.


19 posted on 02/16/2014 6:48:52 PM PST by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: lavaroise
the Nuremberg trials were not the genesis of Western determination in WWII, but simply a political tool product that was not meant to be furthered beyond its use in the prosecution of the war against Germany.

I was going to note the same thing: Nuremberg had enough fundamental problem to not be repeated in its exact form: it was a trial by the winners of the losers, with the Soviet Union sitting as judge of Germany for no other reason than that; the body of law under which to try war crimes did not exist; the concept of guilt seemed fuzzy. But I think that the author asks us to look beyond the implementation of the Nuremberg trial, and to recognize that no public condemnation of communism was ever done by any international institution, nor in fact by any leading world power in its own jurisdiction.

That indifference to the problem of international justice of this proportion makes the entire edifice of international law nothing much more than a self-serving joke of the Left.

20 posted on 02/16/2014 6:49:27 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: SeminoleCounty

We are saying China and thus removing all other options of trade, letting China bully Japan, Taiwan, South Korea etc..

ANd it goes on like this.

We are Chinese suckers.


21 posted on 02/16/2014 6:49:45 PM PST by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: SeminoleCounty
economically supporting a Communist enemy got you executed for treason

The Soviet Union was practically built by the Western powers, and it was defended against a sure defeat by Germany also by the Western powers.

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution
Lend-Lease

22 posted on 02/16/2014 6:53:44 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Revolting cat!

It is not just propaganda though. The Bolshevik revolution was financed by the West and Stalin’s industrialization was done on American technology. Any Nuremberg-type trial might expose many people in the West, and not all of them would be journalists. See my preceding post, for example.


23 posted on 02/16/2014 6:56:36 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

BUMP!


24 posted on 02/16/2014 6:58:56 PM PST by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: annalex

It’s because communism is part of our id whereas Naziism is “other”.

Communism expresses our (”our” roughly meaning “the West’s”) nagging concerns about capitalism and therefore in some sense is part of us. The failures of communism as a governing system are huge and obvious, and if that were all it had to offer we would have wholly rejected it long ago. But we apparently find value in it as a critical voice against an unrestrained free market system and so we allow it to have a place in our politics and our thinking.


25 posted on 02/16/2014 7:02:22 PM PST by Yardstick
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To: annalex

The Soviet Union wasn’t overrun and occupied by invading armies.


26 posted on 02/16/2014 7:04:02 PM PST by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINEhttp://steshaw.org/economics-in-one-lesson/)
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To: annalex

According to fellow traveler NBC Sports at the Olympics, Communism in Russia was just a pivotal experiment.


27 posted on 02/16/2014 7:10:09 PM PST by The_Media_never_lie (The media must be defeated any way it can be done.)
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To: Travis McGee; SLB; ATLDiver

Ping


28 posted on 02/16/2014 7:17:55 PM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: annalex
There were never any trials, because Communism never went away. This is all part of the plan, as laid out in this speech:

"War to the hilt between communism and capitalism is inevitable. But today we are too weak to strike. Our day will come in 30 – 40 years. But first we must lull the capitalist nations to sleep with the greatest overtures of peace and disarmament known throughout history. And then, when their guard is dropped, we will smash them with our clenched fist.” Dimitri Manuilski — In a speech to the Lenin School for Political Warfare in Moscow in the 1930s.

With the exception of the time frame, it's all unfolding just as planned. Think Communism went away with the collapse of the Berlin Wall? You got lulled to sleep is all.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

29 posted on 02/16/2014 8:00:31 PM PST by wku man (We are the 53%! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXN0GDuLN4)
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To: annalex

Just started watching the movie - very good so far. Quote apropo for this thread.

“Hitler said it would be a thousand year Reich. Communism is forever.”


30 posted on 02/16/2014 8:29:35 PM PST by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: annalex

The reason the Germans and Japanese were so militarized in the decades before WWII was because they were neighbors with the USSR. They were terrified of the commies. Why in hell did we wind up on the same side as them?


31 posted on 02/16/2014 8:35:49 PM PST by Born to Conserve
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To: annalex

Bump


32 posted on 02/16/2014 9:28:41 PM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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To: annalex

Please add me to your list.


33 posted on 02/16/2014 10:44:38 PM PST by shove_it (long ago Orwell and Rand warned us of Obama’s America)
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To: Yardstick
we apparently find value in it as a critical voice against an unrestrained free market system

The same can be said of National Socialism: "Gas chambers were a bit excessive, but overall social harmony, strong leadership, self-reliance and state control over key industries is a critical voice against an unrestrained free market system", etc.

34 posted on 02/17/2014 5:24:59 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
Nearly every teacher in this nation ( both in private and government schools) was trained by godless Marxists in Marxist-run colleges and universities.

That's scary! Yet....Conservatives seem asleep. While conservatives run around chasing the latest political issue of the day, the Marxists have the kids.

35 posted on 02/17/2014 5:25:03 AM PST by wintertime
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To: arthurus
The Soviet Union wasn’t overrun and occupied by invading armies

Yes I think that is partly an explanation. The author touches on that when he talks about the peaceful end of the Soviet System: Gorbachev and Reagan had an understanding that no military advantage would be taken by the West, and Bush soft-pedaled the dissolution of the USSR with nauseating nonchalance.

Nevertheless nothing prevented the media from pressing for greater access to the archive and more historical research. They could be making triumphalist pieces in press and on television about the evils we've overcome. Instead, whatever research was done was buried by the media. For example, remember Venona intercepts? That could have been a matter of countless spy stories at the same time upsetting the conventional wisdom about McCarthyism. Nothing happened. That is because the identity of the media is rooted in the far Left political movement; they defend their own and the gathering and dissemination of information, that is, journalism is merely a cover.

36 posted on 02/17/2014 5:36:23 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: wku man
With the exception of the time frame, it's all unfolding just as planned

No, the liberation of East Europe was not planned. The dissolution of the USSR was a considerable blow, and an unplanned one to receive. These people believed in the economic superiority of the Soviet economic system and could not understand how it could crumble.

37 posted on 02/17/2014 5:39:01 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Born to Conserve
the Germans and Japanese were so militarized in the decades before WWII was because they were neighbors with the USSR

That is correct. Hitler never wanted to fight Britain, and Japan would have been happy to just keep China as a colony.

Why in hell did we wind up on the same side as them?

You mean Hitler going for the Molotov pact? I think, he wanted to gain time to build up more. Same as Stalin, actually. Remember that the Red army was beaten in the beginning of the German-Soviet war not for lack of armaments but for lack of the spirit to fight. The Red soldier was (there are exceptions) ready to surrender. Numerically, the Red Army was superior to Germany.

38 posted on 02/17/2014 5:45:17 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: wintertime
the Marxists have the kids

On college level that's probably true.

39 posted on 02/17/2014 5:50:49 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Nearly all the teachers in this nation ( both in private and government K-12 schools) were trained by godless Marxists.

While surely not every teacher in this nation is a Marxist, the training does leak through into to the classroom.


40 posted on 02/17/2014 6:53:29 AM PST by wintertime
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To: annalex

And that unknown translator has done a great service.

I think, though, an important piece left out of the professor’s work is the fact that the USSR had such an effective PR campaign and numerous State Department infiltrators even before WWII.


41 posted on 02/17/2014 7:32:34 AM PST by Bigg Red (O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! Ps 8)
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To: annalex

National Socialism could serve a similar purpose if it weren’t based on racial theories and fear of Jews and a type of nationalism that’s foreign if not repulsive to most westerners and especially Americans. It’s too polluted with that stuff at the theoretical level to be kept around. Communism, on the other hand, looks great in theory. It’s all about the universal brotherhood of man, liberation of the individual, equality, peace, justice, etc. Its moral aspirations come straight out of the Judeo-Christian tradition (while distilling out inconveniences like God and the Bible) and so it has access to lots of familiar receptor sites in the western mind. For the West, communism is like clinically pure heroin whereas National Socialism is street junk tainted with battery acid.


42 posted on 02/17/2014 8:07:03 AM PST by Yardstick
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To: annalex
Did you read the quote? The "dissolution" of Eastern Europe and the "fall" of the Soviet Union are the unprecedented overtures of peace the guy spoke of. It's all a ruse, it's all part of the plan to lull us to sleep, and asleep we are. The greatest Communist threat is no longer from the Russians, or even the Chicoms -- it's within our very own borders. The Commies are in charge, because we went to sleep.

The clenched fist is coming.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

43 posted on 02/17/2014 9:58:38 AM PST by wku man (We are the 53%! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXN0GDuLN4)
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To: wintertime

Indeed it leaks through. It is just less a determinant of professional success, since school teachers mostly teach the basics, if anything.

I know a school principal back in the day, now retired, who kept his Republican affiliation secret all his professional life.


44 posted on 02/17/2014 6:12:19 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Bigg Red
that unknown translator has done a great service.

Indeed. I wrote to him, but haven't heard back.

I think more often than not it wasn't such a skill at PR that influenced opinions in the West, but that people at all levels just wanted to believe the Soviets. A misunderstanding of the proper role of monarchy played a part as well.

45 posted on 02/17/2014 6:15:39 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Yardstick

Yes, but these are post-WWII when the US fought against Germany. Prior to that, Hitler was looked upon favorably by everyone precisely because people instinctively respect nationalism and reject Communism. It was an incredible turn of the tables that America, itself a nationalistic nation like no other (remember “Truth, Justice and the American Way”?) was conditioned to treat nationalism like a dirty word. Of course, the brutality of the SS is repulsive, but it needn’t have transferred to abandonment of nationalism. In fact, in 1950’s it didn’t. The decline of American nationalism dates to the Vietnam war, I think. Moreover, socialism — the other component of nazism, — should have been rejected just as strongly by that logic but it hasn’t been.


46 posted on 02/17/2014 6:24:32 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: wku man
The "dissolution" of Eastern Europe and the "fall" of the Soviet Union are the unprecedented overtures of peace the guy spoke of

I understand that point but I do not fully agree with it. The dissolution of the USSR was, perhaps partly reversible (as concerns Belarus, Kazakhstan and a handful of other limitrophes); there are now some courageous souls in Kiev risking their lives to make it wholly irreversible. The break-off of Eastern Europe is clearly irreversible already. It would be no easier for a new Stalin to occupy Riga or Warsaw than to occupy Holland, -- and probably harder still.

47 posted on 02/17/2014 6:30:04 PM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
While all you say might be true, it's absolutely irrelevant. The Russians can take back Eastern Europe without breaking a sweat. It's us that are the targets of their "overtures of peace". It's us, not Belarus, Kazakhstan or the Ukraine, that they were and are worried about. We're the ones who have been lulled to sleep. What's going on in Eastern Europe has nothing to do with how we've dropped our guard in the West.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

48 posted on 02/17/2014 8:39:05 PM PST by wku man (We are the 53%! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUXN0GDuLN4)
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To: wku man
It's us that are the targets of their "overtures of peace"

Yes, on that score I agree. What, do you think, the ultimate objective is?

49 posted on 02/18/2014 5:40:11 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Why no commie Nuremburg? Because the winners don’t have to stand trial.


50 posted on 02/18/2014 6:35:20 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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