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Ukraine's Military Mobilizes, Prepares For Combat: Trucks, APCs, SAMs, Howitzers, Tanks Rolling Out
Zerohedge ^ | 3/8/14 | Tyler Durden

Posted on 03/08/2014 7:29:55 PM PST by Kartographer

Did somebody say de-escalation?

Earlier today, photos were distributed showing the latest military convoy reinforcements heading into the Crimea, accompanies by a Police car demonstrating Moscow license plate numbers, most likely providing further support to the pro-Russian forces in the peninsula.

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: russia; ukraine
GEEETTTTTT REEEEADDDDYYYY TOOOO RUMBLE!!
1 posted on 03/08/2014 7:29:55 PM PST by Kartographer
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To: Kartographer

Assassinations of Ukie officials begin tomorrow. Plausible deniability, of course.


2 posted on 03/08/2014 7:34:34 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great -- until it happens to YOU..)
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To: KC_Lion; GeronL; nuconvert; txhurl

PING.


3 posted on 03/08/2014 7:38:59 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Kartographer

I’m sure the Ukrainians right now are just tickled pink they got rid of all their nukes, right?


4 posted on 03/08/2014 7:40:08 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Kartographer

Reminds me of the great movie comedy from the ‘60s “The Russians Are Coming!’’ “Egermancy, Egermancy, everybody to get from street!’’.


5 posted on 03/08/2014 7:41:05 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: Kartographer

this is not going to end well


6 posted on 03/08/2014 7:42:14 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Kartographer

Great live link

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi/


7 posted on 03/08/2014 7:44:14 PM PST by crosslink (Moderates should play in the middle of a busy street)
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To: Kartographer
When we do things, our military is hampered by our Rules of Engagement.
If things get nasty in Ukraine, I don't think Putin will be hampered by gentle ROE.

And what will the world say about a modern military that REALLY fights to shock and awe?
Real war isn't pretty if you want to win fast and decisively and also pacify a country that wants you to leave.

8 posted on 03/08/2014 7:48:23 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Kartographer

Why would Ukraine want to fight a war it has no chance of winning over a piece of land filled with Russians that was only given to the Ukraine in the 50’s?


9 posted on 03/08/2014 7:54:04 PM PST by Husker24
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To: gaijin
I’m sure the Ukrainians right now are just tickled pink they got rid of all their nukes, right?

Nukes are pretty useless unless you want to exterminate the other guy's population while getting immolated in the process. The Afghans outlasted the Russians and they had nary a nuke in their possession. Ditto with our guys in Afghanistan and Iraq and Sunni Arab and Taliban insurgents respectively. Ukraine can kick the Russians out of Crimea without a single nuke - they just have to want it more than the Russians, and that means doing what it takes to get to the Russians' uncle point, casualty-wise. 13K dead was the Red Army's limit back in Afghanistan. I suspect if the Russian body count gets to 10K, Putin will be looking for a comfortable locale for a retirement in exile.

It's impossible to know the degree of Ukrainian rancor over the bloody suppression of past rebellions against the Russians. Was the Holodomor the Ukrainian equivalent of the Irish Potato Famine - the event that finally turned them irrevocably against their Russian masters? Only time will tell - in the form of the amount of punishment they're prepared to take in order to remove the Russians from the Crimea.

10 posted on 03/08/2014 7:59:31 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Migraine

Very likely


11 posted on 03/08/2014 8:04:52 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Army Air Corps

Wow


12 posted on 03/08/2014 8:05:23 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Kartographer
Meanwhile, Russia reinforces its position in the Crimea.
13 posted on 03/08/2014 8:07:39 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: Husker24
Why would Ukraine want to fight a war it has no chance of winning over a piece of land filled with Russians that was only given to the Ukraine in the 50’s?

I think the question is why Russia would want to fight a war it has no chance of winning. It comes down to who wants it more. Is Russia prepared to have tens of thousands of its servicemen come home in body bags? More and more, I'm beginning to suspect that historians will note the Holodomor as the Ukrainian equivalent of the Irish Potato Famine - the event that made separation from Russia irrevocable. For Ukrainians, this invasion is a nation-making event - the historical enemy engages in yet another instance of unprovoked aggression, giving Ukrainians the opportunity to bleed the Russians, but this time with Ukraine winning instead of losing. Once the war officially kicks off in a few months (after the Ukrainian military is fully mobilized), expect it to be 10x more bloody than what transpired during the partition of Yugoslavia, if the Russians try to tough it out.

14 posted on 03/08/2014 8:12:27 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Kartographer

I think the west and the EU miscalculated - they thought they could engineer one of their cutely named revolutions and that would be that. Not working out that way.


15 posted on 03/08/2014 8:14:34 PM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Kartographer
I spent the evening with a person I know pretty well. This person grew up in Ukraine.

She said the following things:

  1. The disturbances started before Christmas 2013.
  2. Accurate information is very hard to come by. Her family members back in Ukraine are trying to figure out what is going on almost as much as people here are.
  3. There has been much civil unrest caused by "strikers." These are people who are demanding Ukraine join the European Union.
  4. My friend says many of these people are unemployed, students, homeless, etc. They are being paid, but no one knows by whom. They are getting a small amount of money ($20 or $30 per day) plus meals in return for their participation in street protest, vandalism, and civil unrest.
  5. People in the Eastern half of Ukraine are hoping the Russians invade. They are worried about energy and food supplies.
  6. The Russians have greatly tightened security at the Ukraine border, but traffic is still flowing in both directions. There have been attempts to smuggle weapons into Russia from Ukraine by car and truck.
  7. Rumor mill in Eastern Ukraine is that this unrest is being manufactured by US, UK, and Germany, who want to induce Ukraine to join EU.
  8. Ukraine was very close to joining EU last year, but balked at the 11th hour once people began to realize the degree of economic restrictions on UK enterprises that would accompany EU membership.
  9. In particular, my friend mentioned a major highway in Ukraine - "hundreds of kilometers long" that would have to be completely rebuilt before EU admission could be made permanent - because that highway didn't come up to EU standards.
  10. When I made the assertion that Obama probably couldn't care less whether Ukraine joins the EU or not, she shrugged, as if to say "you know this and I know this, but people back home think otherwise."
  11. The population of the Crimea (which she pronounced "krem-a") is almost entirely ethnically, culturally, and economically Russian. They want the Russians to come in.
  12. No one knows or can figure out where the money to pay the protestors is coming from.
  13. The protestors have vandalized monuments to war dead in Kiev and Lvov. Some of the ruined monuments were for Russian soldiers, but some were for Ukraine soldiers. This has angered many ordinary people, including my friend.
  14. The wealthy people of Ukraine have all left for vacation homes abroad.
  15. Putin's position is "if you want to join EU, join, and if you don't want to join, don't join." However, he made it clear that if Ukraine joins EU, they will pay EU prices for Russian natural gas.
  16. There is much theft of gas from the pipeline that carries Russian nat gas through Ukraine.
  17. Russia is building at least one more pipeline for gas that will bypass Ukraine.

As I said, this information is only a few hours old for me.

16 posted on 03/08/2014 8:16:47 PM PST by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: gaijin

How do we know conclusively that they did? Israel has no nukes, right?


17 posted on 03/08/2014 8:22:54 PM PST by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: Steely Tom

Sounds like occupy wallstreet type stuff.


18 posted on 03/08/2014 8:29:53 PM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: gaijin
I’m sure the Ukrainians right now are just tickled pink they got rid of all their nukes, right?


19 posted on 03/08/2014 8:31:06 PM PST by FreeReign
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To: Kartographer
Oh, I forgot some items:

  1. Hospitals and schools are still open and functioning normally.
  2. Gasoline and other fuels are available but are "very expensive."
  3. There are no special travel restrictions between Ukraine and EU countries to its west.
  4. When I asked "why are US, UK and Germany so keen to have Ukraine in the EU, she said "because that would bring Ukraine into NATO, which wants to build military bases next to Russia. This was when I said something like "Obama doesn't care about building military bases next to Russia" and her non-verbal response was like "yeah, I know, but what can you do?"

20 posted on 03/08/2014 8:35:14 PM PST by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: Kartographer

Ukraine’s military will be hampered by mass defections, betrayals, and massive surrenders of units to the divisional level.


21 posted on 03/08/2014 9:16:41 PM PST by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: gaijin

oh, yeah.

And didn’t we agree to protect them if they agreed to go ‘ nuke free ‘?

Yeah, we did.


22 posted on 03/08/2014 10:02:39 PM PST by warsaw44
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To: Zhang Fei

Ukraine winning instead of losing


You really see Russia losing a conflict with Ukraine? I know Russia’s military isn’t what it used to be but reports I have read indicate the Ukrainian military is in shambles compared to Russia.

Not rooting for the Russian’s by any stretch but I just don’t see them losing that fight.

I’ve wondered if border countries will get involved without even trying. Throw Poland in the mix and things get really interesting.


23 posted on 03/08/2014 10:06:46 PM PST by warsaw44
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To: warsaw44
You really see Russia losing a conflict with Ukraine?

Forget the Russians - we couldn't win a war with Ukraine. And by win I mean outlast. Ukraine couldn't conquer either Russia or the US, but it can outlast either in a war for something it holds dear enough. Whether the Crimea is that something remains to be seen, but there's more than territory involved - there's history in terms of the Holodomor and other Russian mass killings of Ukrainians. This Russian invasion is simultaneously a chance to build an enduring national myth (such as the one about the colonials being oppressed* by King George) and an opportunity to bleed the Russians dry over all of the previous times the Ukrainians' forebears were slaughtered** during the Russian suppression of Ukrainian revolts.

* Relative to the rest of the world at the time, the Founding Fathers wouldn't know oppression if it smacked them upside the head.

** This was the basis for both Irish and Scottish separatism. The former is complete, whereas the latter is only a matter of time. Think about how the Scots still commemorate the Battle of Stirling Bridge and the Battle of Bannockburn after all this time, while mourning the Battle of Falkirk, despite the Union of the Crowns having produced a Scottish king to rule all of Britain, King James I.

24 posted on 03/08/2014 10:32:38 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: warsaw44

Speaking of Poland,

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-02-21/polish-minister-tells-protest-leader-you-will-all-be-dead/

nice,huh?


25 posted on 03/08/2014 10:37:19 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: warsaw44

In attritional terms, we won in Vietnam - we killed an estimated 1.2m NVA and VC in exchange for 58K GI dead. We won every major battle and most of the minor ones. In terms of facts on the ground, we lost - the RVN is a historical relic, replaced by the DRV. We decided the war wasn’t worth the cost and left.


26 posted on 03/08/2014 10:41:43 PM PST by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Thunder90
Among latest news - Ukrainian nationals seized dozens portable antiaircraft missiles “Egla” (Needle) analog of US Stingers on military depot. Here is vid of Right sector protester Sashko Bely in municipal council of town Rovno http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOdnE_5-hUA here is his conversation with procuror in Rovno town
27 posted on 03/09/2014 12:30:17 AM PST by Cossak
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To: Thunder90

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDxKuC4GNjk


28 posted on 03/09/2014 12:31:59 AM PST by Cossak
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To: Steely Tom

My acquainted Ukrainian woman told me her cousin and classmate were murdered in Kiev recently. They were not protesters; they were murdered in their homes by gangsters with weapon behaving like occupants on seized land. Police is dysfunctional.


29 posted on 03/09/2014 12:44:48 AM PST by Cossak
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To: ClearCase_guy
“I don't think Putin will be hampered ...”

Just look at the sort of troops and their actions in Georgia a few years back, or Russians troop actions in the Hungarian invasion in the 60s: tanks and other armored vehicles will roll over the demonstrators, crowds and individuals will be shot out of hand just because.

The Ukrainian military is a joke, so no help there.

30 posted on 03/09/2014 5:15:18 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Steely Tom

This follows a pattern of our government. particularly since Obama. Send in Community agitators to disrupt in order to turn the fate of that nation to the NWO. The people that run Obama are behind it.

The confusing part for most of us is that neither side is worth a tinker’s damn.

Thing is, they are really not too successful after looking at Egypt and Libya.


31 posted on 03/09/2014 5:24:02 AM PDT by dforest
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To: Zhang Fei
“... the Russians’ uncle point...” The only trouble with the theory of massive Russian troop loss is:

a) their mil has been restructured away from conscript dependence toward a more professional one;

b) the Afgans were already armed and had a culture of war, aka ‘fighting season’;

c) one of Russia's largest military bases is just over the boarder and;

d) supply lines are very short, unlike in Afghanistan.

Whatever the Ukrainians want, they are not going to get - no matter what they try. Russia will keep the Crimea at all costs - it is their only warm water port.

The crisis could conceivably be solved by giving the Russians a ‘99’ year lease on the port and making Russian an official language.

32 posted on 03/09/2014 5:34:43 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: DonaldC

More like Code Pink helping the MB overthrow Mubarik in Egypt.


33 posted on 03/09/2014 5:39:13 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Husker24
Why would Ukraine want to fight a war it has no chance of winning over a piece of land filled with Russians that was only given to the Ukraine in the 50’s?

It might be a viable stalling tactic to hold off until the cavalry shows up, but there is no cavalry to ride in and save them. The best they can do (lousy tactic) is to bloody Putin's nose and get the world even more irate (more nasty letters and phone calls) when he shows them he's serious.

34 posted on 03/09/2014 6:26:03 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: PIF
b) the Afgans were already armed and had a culture of war, aka ‘fighting season’;

Europe has a long tradition of vicious wars of attrition, the most recent of which ended in the late 90's, during the partition of Yugoslavia. Ukraine's Stepan Bandera gave the Russians a run for their money in the decade or so after WWII, packing it in only after the Soviets conducted mass killings of the Ukrainian rebels' civilian supporters, destroying the guerrilla force after the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. Unlike the Afghans, the Ukrainians fought the Russians for over a decade without any foreign aid.

35 posted on 03/09/2014 9:27:13 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
However, the point is that the Afganis were well armed with extensive daily experience prior to the Soviet conflict, while the Ukrainians are not - at present. Ukrainians have no present day nor daily experiencce with war - it will be a losing learning curve against a modern army - ask the Checheans.

With the EU wimped-out - there is no help there, nor can they expect any from the United Obama States. The European political climate has radically changed from the 90s when they could expect aid overt or covert aid against the Soviets.

WWII is long past, Bandara is gone, as are the arms available at that time. Any attempt to take up arms against the Russians today will have the same result it did in the past. The media will slobber over the horrific mass killings and move on. The Russians do not care, as long as the Crimea remains under their control - same for the gas pipelines.

36 posted on 03/09/2014 10:25:11 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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