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Who Will Stop Putin's Aggression
3/9/2014 | Digest

Posted on 03/09/2014 12:24:55 PM PDT by annalex

Who Will Stop Putin's Aggression

I recently posted this article: Why Russia No Longer Fears the West. The author, one Ben Judah, made the point that the West lately projects an image of weakness, and Putin has been emboldened by it.

I'd say that the author correctly identified one aspect of Putin's mentality: a thug's respect for another thug, the corollary of which is a thug's dismissal of civilized behavior as weakness. It is from that mental vantage point that Putin developed his recent moxie.

The reality is that the West is responding calmly but also firmly. I think that the men in the corridors of power sent Obama to the beach and worked up an effective response. Here Kerry softly suggests that diplomatic relations with Russian Federation may not last past the occupation of Crimea:

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry told Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in a telephone call on Saturday that any Russian steps to annex Ukraine's Crimea region would close the door to diplomacy, a U.S. State Department official said.

"He made clear that continued military escalation and provocation in Crimea or elsewhere in Ukraine, along with steps to annex Crimea to Russia would close any available space for diplomacy, and he urged utmost restraint," the official said.

Kerry Urges Russia to Exercise Utmost Restraint in Crimea

Here Joint Chiefs chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey reminds the Sovs that NATO member countries also have ethnic minorities to protect in Ukraine:

we’re seeking aggressively to resolve this diplomatically, before we would reach the point where there could be a miscalculation.

It’s probably worth mentioning why this is so unsettling to the Eastern Europeans. You know, we live here in America and sometimes don’t understand the realities of geography and demographics in Eastern Europe.

There are — if Russia is allowed to do this, which is to say move into a sovereign country under the guise of protecting ethnic Russians in Ukraine, it exposes Eastern Europe to some significant risk, because there are ethnic enclaves all over Eastern Europe and the Balkans.

I will give you one example. There are 400,000 ethnic Romanians living in Ukraine. So this is enormously unsettling.

Joint Chiefs chairman Dempsey on Ukraine, military sex abuse and budget cuts

Yet there is another force or forces that Putin would do well to fear. They are the people of Central and Eastern Europe. They won't let NATO slide into pacifism. The countries that joined NATO celebrate the wisdom of doing so today.

When I met the Polish PM I was struck by his belief that joining the EU and Nato would protect his country from being invaded by Russia.

John Prescott: Ukraine crisis is best solved by 'jaw-jaw' and not 'war-war'

In Prague, there was a demonstration against the occupation of Ukraine:


Down with Communist Fascism!






For your Freedom and Ours

More here

In Moscow, the Russians support independent Ukraine. Not many, so far; definitely not enough. But the Russian nation will wake up one day to the fact that their greatest enemy is their Soviet legacy.


Arrest in Moscow

This is who will stop Putin.. This is a priest from Nikolaev on the street in Simferopol:


"The red star never stops drinking blood!
Hammer and sickle is death and starvation!
Shame to the blood thirsty Moscow commune! Nikolaev city"

Ultimately, it is the people of Europe, -- not the diplomats from Europe, -- who will stop Putin, because faith and nationalism are stronger than Soviet (and post-Soviet) hordes.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bho44; bhorussia; crimea; putin; russia; ukraine; ukraineprague; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
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1 posted on 03/09/2014 12:24:55 PM PDT by annalex
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To: A.A. Cunningham; andyk; BatGuano; bayliving; Belteshazzar; bert; Bibman; Bigg Red; bigheadfred; ...

If you want to be on this right wing, monarchy, paleolibertarianism and nationalism ping list, but are not, please let me know. If you are on it and want to be off, also let me know. This ping list is not used for Catholic-Protestant debates.


2 posted on 03/09/2014 12:25:48 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Obama

The EU

somebody else

/sarc


3 posted on 03/09/2014 12:27:18 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (When I first read it, " Atlas Shrugged" was fiction)
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To: muir_redwoods

No one.

That being said, I’ve got no interest in a war, nuclear or otherwise.


4 posted on 03/09/2014 12:29:43 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: annalex

Paris is next. Why not?


5 posted on 03/09/2014 12:32:00 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: muir_redwoods

Actually, the NATO as an institution might, despite the weakness of their political leadership. Ultimately, nations win over barbarity, as they force their institutions into action.


6 posted on 03/09/2014 12:32:30 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: RIghtwardHo

Then Paris is next. Why not?

Yeah, France has nukes. So what?


7 posted on 03/09/2014 12:33:55 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: muir_redwoods

Sorry. The WH is closed due to the “lyin’ king” being in the Keys this weekend. Try back next week.


8 posted on 03/09/2014 12:35:06 PM PDT by rktman (Ethnicity: Redneck. Race: Daytona 500)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Has nothing to do with Paris. Kiev, maybe. But most likely, Putin’s current objectives are realistically scaled to just annexation of Crimea. Which, had he been a civilized man, he could have negotiated without military action.


9 posted on 03/09/2014 12:35:10 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: RIghtwardHo

When you disarm then the war is never yours to decide.


10 posted on 03/09/2014 12:36:57 PM PDT by MtnClimber (Liberals - wrong is right, down is up, gulags are utopia.)
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To: RIghtwardHo

The answer is to directly bomb Russia out of the Crimea. They don’t want nuclear war either, so they would lose and Putin would be so weakened he’d be gone in months.

In 1938, Hitler’s own generals were ready to take him down but he was saved for bigger things by the pusilanimity of Chamberlain, which you echo.


11 posted on 03/09/2014 12:40:10 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: annalex

There is no Churchill around that I know of.


12 posted on 03/09/2014 12:40:39 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: annalex

Yeah? Warsaw, Prague, Berlin, Paris, London. Why not? You didn’t answer that.

Why should he get Crimea?


13 posted on 03/09/2014 12:43:40 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: annalex

Putin will only be stopped when he overextends himself and he tries to go someplace that he is not wanted. Comparing Putin to Hitler thus far is historically flawed. Hitler invaded and attempted to dominate and seize countries where he was not wanted. He also attempted to liquidate entire populations. Putin thus far has confined his “aggression” to area that have been traditionally Russian and thus far it has been bloodless.


14 posted on 03/09/2014 12:44:34 PM PDT by allendale
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To: annalex

The Lord will stop Putin when Putin, et al make their move on Israel.....and he won’t be stopped before then....which leads me to believe that it isn’t too far off.


15 posted on 03/09/2014 12:44:43 PM PDT by Tucker39 (Welcome to America! Now speak English; and keep to the right....In driving, in Faith, and in politic)
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To: yarddog

That might be a good thing. Last time Churchill was involved in geopolitics, Poland was sold off to Stalin. We are still dismantling the legacy of the WWII trio.


16 posted on 03/09/2014 12:45:52 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide

Because Crimea is historically a part of the Russian Empire, populated by ethnic Russians. Crimea was gifted — like one can gift cattle — to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 by Khruschev in celebration of defeating Ukrainian nationalist movement.

That Putin wants Crimea is understandable. That he chose military invasion is because of the kind of man he is.


17 posted on 03/09/2014 12:49:09 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
"Геть?" What does that mean?
18 posted on 03/09/2014 12:52:27 PM PDT by x
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To: annalex

Would you buy land anywhere along the Russian frontier?


19 posted on 03/09/2014 12:58:48 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: x

Get (out)

Funny how many Russian words transliterate straight to English.


20 posted on 03/09/2014 1:05:44 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE!)
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To: annalex

Russia got stopped in Afghanistan. BTW We are not weak but realistic. We only war on countries that are ‘doable’.


21 posted on 03/09/2014 1:17:36 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: annalex
Who Will Stop Putin's Aggression

The Won who stopped the oceans from rising, The Won who started the planet healing, Our Lord And Savior, The Obama, the Messiah, The Won!

22 posted on 03/09/2014 1:19:15 PM PDT by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Tucker39

“The Lord will stop Putin when Putin, et al make their move on Israel.....and he won’t be stopped before then....which leads me to believe that it isn’t too far off.”

Right sentiment, wrong actor...

Putin is a student of Machiavelli. Don’t think like an American, think like Machiavelli in “The Prince”.

As long as the Arabs and Jews are at loggerheads, they aren’t that interested in causing trouble in Russia, and there is a market for Russian arms. Actual destruction of Israel would mean no more market for Russian arms.


23 posted on 03/09/2014 1:24:57 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: annalex

He’ll stop when he has what he wants. Seize and pause strategy.


24 posted on 03/09/2014 1:26:28 PM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: allendale
Putin will only be stopped when he overextends himself and he tries to go someplace that he is not wanted. Comparing Putin to Hitler thus far is historically flawed

The comparison is accurate to Hitler in 1938 when he engineered the Anschluss of Austria and Sudetenland. In both cases the Germans were quite welcome by the population overall. That is the comparisons the Czechs are making as it is most meaningful to them.

Besides, it is a commonplace truth in East-Central Europe that while differences between USSR and the Third Reich exists, the similarities outweigh the differences as far as the Czechs, Poles and the Hungarians are concerned.

We should also remember that even in countries not ethnically tied to Germany, Hitler was not all that unwelcome, as he drove the Communists out. The fierce anti-German resistance in Russia, for example, is for the most part an artifact of Communist propaganda.

25 posted on 03/09/2014 1:33:43 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Tucker39
Israel

You think? No other country that matter?

26 posted on 03/09/2014 1:35:09 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
"the West lately projects an image of weakness, and Putin has been emboldened by it

Nonsense!

The West IS WEEK, and Putin KNOWS it.

27 posted on 03/09/2014 1:37:26 PM PDT by Savage Beast (Hubris and denial overwhelm Western Civilization. Nemesis and tragedy always follow.)
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To: annalex
I expect Putin will continue to expand.
I don't think the US necessarily has the role of "Putin-stopper".
Going to war against Russia simply does not seem like a good idea at this time.

Now, having said all that, and also begin aware of Hitler's actions cicra 1938 ... it also does not seem like a good time for the US to take a meat-cleaver to our Defense budget. We may find that we really do have a need for those assets in a few years, whether we want to or not.

28 posted on 03/09/2014 1:38:43 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: x
"Геть?"

It is one of those Ukrainian interjections that has no analogy in Russian, and I only understand Ukrainian as I bridge my Russian and my Bulgarian and take guesses.

This dictionary explains:

геть! out, away, down with! геть! його! — out with him! ідіть геть — out with you!, get out!, clear out!; амер. go chase yourself! геть! з-перед очей! — get out of my sight!

Українсько-англійський словник


29 posted on 03/09/2014 1:40:10 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide
Would you buy land anywhere along the Russian frontier?

No. This is why this Putin's adventure has the Russian people among its victims already. He is creating himself an economic wasteland.

30 posted on 03/09/2014 1:42:05 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

Who will stop Obama’s aggression.....against America.


31 posted on 03/09/2014 1:43:36 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: ex-snook
We are not weak but realistic

Yes, that is my overall impression: that the Western institutions are stronger than their figurehead leaders. Of course fighting a hot war in Ukraine is not in the national interests of the great Western Powers, but Cold War style trade and diplomacy effort will win the Second Cold War probably faster than they won the First.

32 posted on 03/09/2014 1:44:59 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks annalex.


33 posted on 03/09/2014 1:45:55 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: bigbob
Seize and pause strategy

That is known as the Brezhnev Doctrine. No country once in the Soviet geopolitical orbit is to get out. It will probably end just like the USSR ended, and hopefully, kill Sovietism for good.

34 posted on 03/09/2014 1:47:14 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: Savage Beast

Calm down, I don’t argue by font size.


35 posted on 03/09/2014 1:48:15 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: VerySadAmerican

We’ll find out when it happens.


36 posted on 03/09/2014 1:51:21 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Yes. I think, at this point our reaction is about right, and, like I said in the article, it is ultimately the people of East-Central Europe that will stop him.


37 posted on 03/09/2014 1:51:40 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

I see no agression, other than Putin protecting Russia’s interests in Crimea.


38 posted on 03/09/2014 1:52:38 PM PDT by RedwM
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To: Savage Beast
The West IS WEEK

Indeed. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Week.

39 posted on 03/09/2014 1:59:18 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: annalex
Educate yourself...
40 posted on 03/09/2014 2:03:40 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: RedwM
Insertion of troops on the territory of a sovereign nation in absence of invitation to do so from the legitimate government of that nation is, by definition, a hostile act. Further, the military personnel was blocked in their bases by force, communication facilities were damaged or destroyed, a naval vessel was blocked, - all these are not merely a military invasion but aggression.

Presence of legitimate interests on the territory of another nation does not create an excuse for insertion of troops in this manner. Purely peacemaking force insertion might be justified in case of a humanitarian crisis, but not such crisis exists. Typically, the UN or some other international body authorizes a peacekeeping operation.

Absence of national insignia, by the way, is also contrary to all norms of war; these "green men" cannot be afforded the protection of the Geneva convention. They are already war criminals simply for not identifying themselves.

41 posted on 03/09/2014 2:03:47 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: varmintman

LOL. The UFOs said so?

I welcomed Putin’s diplomacy on Syria. It is not possible to run a large country for twelve years and not do something good. The growing economy in the RF is, however, simply a function of growing oil prices.


42 posted on 03/09/2014 2:06:42 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex

I would have thought that a monarchy/paleo list would support the restoration of the four empires in Europe, whose dissolution by American-UK-French progressives in 1919 has brought 95 years of bloodshed.


43 posted on 03/09/2014 2:08:12 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: annalex

I think Putin is only interested in keeping the commerce moving. The UN...hah. The Geneva Convention...ptooie. The whole thing is a joke.


44 posted on 03/09/2014 2:15:21 PM PDT by RedwM
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To: annalex
Better formatted version:

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/03/reichstag-fire-in-kiev.html#more

45 posted on 03/09/2014 2:21:05 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: annalex

If we are to look for historical parallels, instead of the Sudetenland, one might consider the Nazi/Soviet non-aggression pact resulting in the partition of Poland. Clearly, the West has lost its claim to any moral leadership; the West acts in the interests of the global elite. Putin acts in his own interests and the Russian oligarchs. The people of Ukraine are just a morsel to be divided up by the EU and Russia.
The US is economically weak; we are a paper tiger. All that we can hope for is to get our domestic house in order by ridding ourselves of the commie Dems and feckless GOPe. For the US, Ukraine is a diversion with no upside for the American people.


46 posted on 03/09/2014 2:36:24 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: Tucker39

Why would Putin even want to invade Israel? The Jews aren’t the ones bombing Russian transportation systems or killing Russian schoolchildren. And Israel doesn’t have any natural resources that Russia lacks and wants to plunder. So how would an invasion of Israel benefit Russia in any way?


47 posted on 03/09/2014 2:41:55 PM PDT by istandwithsarah (Game on!)
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To: Jim Noble

I don’t think the goal is restoration of the empires that, one way or another, dissolved a long time ago. I would obviously prefer the world order where countries big and small gravitate in some reasonable patterns to imperial nations; but it cannot be the exact same world as in 1914. Russia, for example, suffered near 100 years of Soviet artificial selection, with the resulting loss of national identity, sense of national purpose, and, importantly to the topic on hand, loss of the ability to attract other nations to its imperial sphere. The Ukrainian nation, on the other hand, — a mere fantastical project 100 years ago, — has now been born and has shown an ability to seek its own spot in the community of nations. We see how both Poland and Ukraine, bitter enemies 50 years ago now have found mutual respect and are in the process of forming a political and economic block to the Germany’s East. That would not have been possible even a short while ago. Nations evolve.

The best for both peoples, the Russian people and the Ukrainian people is to live independently and in peace. The national project for Russia should be a complete repudiation of its Soviet past, and acceptance of its loss of the Cold War, so that it becomes a trade partner rather than a constant expansionist threat. The imperial ambition of the Russian Federation today is a dangerous anachronism, which, moreover, goes back not to the Russian Empire but to the worse instincts of the USSR. It might work for the RF in Asia, but then it would not be int he national interest of the Russian people who — what’s left of them, — culturally belong to Europe.


48 posted on 03/09/2014 2:43:12 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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To: annalex
"Everybody...I got this...MI-CHELLLLLE!"


49 posted on 03/09/2014 2:43:40 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: RedwM

If so he has a funny way of showing it.


50 posted on 03/09/2014 2:44:23 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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