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Cardinal Dolan says "Bravo!" (to Gay Football Player Michael Sam)
Rorate Caeli ^

Posted on 03/09/2014 4:44:13 PM PDT by ClaytonP

"Who am I to judge?" makes a triumphant entry in the American subset of the College of Cardinals, in an interview granted to the highest-rated political debate program on US television, to be broadcast tomorrow:


Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York praised University of Missouri football star Michael Sam for coming out as gay, saying he would not judge the athlete for his sexual orientation. "Good for him," Dolan said in an interview with NBC's "Meet the Press" airing Sunday.

"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'" [Source]

OK, then. Naturally, the Cardinal did not have to say anything at all regarding a specific individual, even if asked. But silence and discretion are one thing, explicitly refusing moral discernment is another, and raising such refusal to the status of "good" and "bravo" is quite noteworthy for a Prince of the Church, because it is in itself a moral judgment, a positive moral judgment.

It is quite easy to see that no moral debate in which the Catholic Church takes part, of any kind and on any level, can ever anymore advance even one inch if the parameters become simply an isolated reading of "not judging" - and much less if "not judging" is elevated to the positive judgment of "good" and "bravo." Politicians quote a pontiff when casting immoral votes, and what can the Church say, from now on, on any legal matter (that presupposes a moral order)? It can always be used to stop any social debate. What can poor pastors and vicars say regarding any sin, even personally to a parishioner, when the isolated presentation of "no sense of judgment" becomes normative? Or even regarding, for instance, an inclination that our judgmental Catechism of the Catholic Church defines as "objectively disordered" (regardless of the practice or not of the "intrinsically disordered" acts attached to it)?

And if you do not like this post, who are you to judge us?...

[Op-ed update: Cardinal Dolan, in this age, it is keeping the faith that deserves a "Bravo".] 


TOPICS: Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: athletes; cardinal; cardinaldolan; catholic; homosexualagenda; michaelsam; religiousleft

1 posted on 03/09/2014 4:44:13 PM PDT by ClaytonP
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To: ClaytonP

There is no such thing as moral depravity any more.


2 posted on 03/09/2014 4:46:49 PM PDT by JT Hatter (Who is Barack Obama? And What is He Really Up To?)
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To: ClaytonP

“Who am I to judge?”
If a Cardinal in the Catholic church doesn’t feel qualified to say what is sin,what is he doing in that position of authority?


3 posted on 03/09/2014 4:47:15 PM PDT by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Farmer Dean

My King grieves.


4 posted on 03/09/2014 4:52:57 PM PDT by mothball
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To: ClaytonP

If he is good at football I don’t care but see it isn’t enough that he is good at football. He must be praised for his lifestyle as if that is something worth glorifying when it is not. Its not a matter of ‘judging’ to point out the flaw of homosexuality anymore than it is judging to point out the health dangers of smoking. I’ve worked with people who were gay. I’ve known people who have went from living a gay lifestyle to a heterosexual and back again and those that have moved to exclusively heterosexual and vice versa. Human beings are flawed, we have desires that make us want to do things that are not good for us, not smart, and depraved. My problem is that this “do not judge” crap is being translated into license and prideful sin which is entirely contrary to Christianity at its core.


5 posted on 03/09/2014 4:53:46 PM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: ClaytonP

Dolan is an utter disgrace.


6 posted on 03/09/2014 4:56:17 PM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1!)
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To: JT Hatter

Well, if this reasoning applies across the board, then there is no way to criticize any sinful behavior. Thus, there is no sinful behavior at all, because who is he to judge???

What am I missing here? If clergy aren’t able or willing to say anything about sin anymore, then where are we as a culture????

Or are we saying that homosexuality is special, and since homosexuality is special and fabulous, we won’t say anything about that sin????????

Is the Cardinal afraid of being called homophobic by homosexual activists?????

yinf


7 posted on 03/09/2014 4:56:54 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (as)
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To: Farmer Dean

Exactly the point. If you have a position of leadership and purport to be a teacher and leader, making moral judgments is the job. This “Who am I to judge” business is just a politically correct way to avoid unpleasant duties and appear popular. Frankly id Cardinal Dolan and the Church leadership denies reality, refuse to purge homosexuals from the priesthood, then the vile molestation of young boys by depraved , decadent homosexual priests will continue. The Church and the faithful will suffer due to the cowardly behavior of these “leaders”.


8 posted on 03/09/2014 4:57:35 PM PDT by allendale
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To: ClaytonP
WTF? Is that what he actually said? I'm trying to find the transcript of the interview and will withhold "judgment' until I can find it.



"Dia shábháil ar fad anseo!"

Genuflectimus non ad principem sed ad Principem Pacis!

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

9 posted on 03/09/2014 4:57:43 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Mlichael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: ClaytonP

Watch them fold like deck chairs


10 posted on 03/09/2014 5:00:18 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: ClaytonP

Cardinal Dolan just made a huge mistake!

The Bible says we are not to judge...OK fine let’s go there Cardinal Dolan.

Judging means to pass approval or disapproval, by saying “bravo,” you passed judgment.

Good job ...you just stepped into the temptation and snare.


11 posted on 03/09/2014 5:02:22 PM PDT by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: ClaytonP

Presumably one could look at the government forcing the Church to provide contraception and say ‘Who am I to judge?’


12 posted on 03/09/2014 5:02:45 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: ClaytonP

Sadly, too many of our bishops, archbishops and cardinals would rather be loved by the world than tell the truth.


13 posted on 03/09/2014 5:08:25 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: ClaytonP

Wow. Sounds like a pro-sodomy statement...from a "leader" of the Roman Catholic church.

Pretty sad.

14 posted on 03/09/2014 5:11:29 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: ClaytonP; flaglady47
HISTORIC AND NOTABLE QUOTES

"Don't fire til you see the whites of their eyes!"
"Remember the Alamo"
"Peace in our time"
"Who am I to judge?"
"What difference does it make at this point?"

15 posted on 03/09/2014 5:11:31 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: ClaytonP

Dolan.....the same guy who is “all in” for amnesty and opposed to the Second Amendment. Disgusting.


16 posted on 03/09/2014 5:17:51 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (I don't want to feel "safe." I want to feel FREE!)
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To: ClaytonP
Is this the passage to which he refers?

Gospel of St. Matthew, Chapter 7:

"Judge not, that you may not be judged,
2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye?
4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

(Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)


Not exactly saying not to judge, IMO. I am judged every day, as are all. We are called to bear witness to the Truth of God, not to facilitate the spread of Evil.



America demands Justice for the Fallen of Benghazi!

O stranger, tell the Lacedaemonians that we lie here, obedient to their command.

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. (Isaiah 49:1 KJV)

17 posted on 03/09/2014 5:18:04 PM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines RVN 1969 - St. Mlichael the Archangel defend us in Battle!)
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To: ClaytonP

The Catholic priesthood is so intrenched in homosexuality, it is not surprising to read Dolan’s remark. This must be a calculated effort to condition the Catholic laity for the great coming out of the homo priests.

Matthew’s 23:27-28 is appropriate at this time:

27“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.”


18 posted on 03/09/2014 5:22:07 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: mothball

Isn’t there enough evidence of Priests molesting alter boys?


19 posted on 03/09/2014 5:24:17 PM PDT by billhilly (Its OK, the left hated Bush.)
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To: ClaytonP

Isn’t cheering “Bravo! “ being judgemental?


20 posted on 03/09/2014 5:26:09 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: ClaytonP

Dolan is a massive disappointment. And to think he is sitting in the chair of the late, great Cardinal O’Connor. Makes me sick to my stomach.


21 posted on 03/09/2014 5:31:46 PM PDT by livius
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To: ClaytonP
Buffoon: noun \(ˌ)bə-ˈfün\. : a stupid or foolish person who tries to be funny.
22 posted on 03/09/2014 5:36:52 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: ClaytonP

US bishops....bleeech


23 posted on 03/09/2014 5:47:45 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

I think buffoon is the appropriate word for Dolan. Also...Democrat. He adores Cuomo and, bizarrely enough, he really seems to love De Blasio, the leftest of the left..


24 posted on 03/09/2014 5:51:03 PM PDT by livius
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To: ClaytonP
 photo dolan.jpg
25 posted on 03/09/2014 5:51:12 PM PDT by don-o (He will not share His glory and He will NOT be mocked! Blessed be the name of the Lord forever!)
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To: Farmer Dean; All

as a practicing Catholic i agree with his view not to judge Sam but Dolan then contradicts himself by saying “bravo”....isn’t that judging in a positive sense just as condemning him is judging in a negative sense????


26 posted on 03/09/2014 5:57:44 PM PDT by God luvs America (63.5 million pay no income tax and vote for DemoKrats...)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Rorate Caeli is just doing Satan’s work for him.

“Bravo” Rorate Caeli!!! Good for you!

You like doing satan’s lifting and who am I to judge? That’s your choice, your free will given to you by God the Father, the one you choose to offend.

Myself, I will follow Jesus Christ, like Cardinal Dolan. Yoy can’t kill me so easy when I say “Bravo, Good for you!” though we disagree completely. Don’t live in fear like that football player, come out and feel the freedom to state your sinfulness and begin to see that you are more than a homosexual inclination. You are a child of God and deserve not just your free will, but all of his love - see the bible and Church on how to do that.


27 posted on 03/09/2014 6:12:17 PM PDT by If You Want It Fixed - Fix It
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To: ClaytonP

Huh, but the cardinal certainly judge divorced heterosexuals and non-catholic Christians!


28 posted on 03/09/2014 6:14:52 PM PDT by RginTN
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To: ClaytonP
"I would have no sense of judgment on him," Dolan continued. "God bless ya. I don't think, look, the same Bible that tells us, that teaches us well about the virtues of chastity and the virtue of fidelity and marriage also tells us not to judge people. So I would say, 'Bravo.'"

Doesn't the same Bible tell us that homosexual behavior is an abomination? So there is no virtue in homosexual behavior. Wow. Never thought I would hear a Catholic Cardinal say such a thing.
29 posted on 03/09/2014 6:18:10 PM PDT by Girlene (Hey, NSA!)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It

Huh? I don’t like Rorate Caeli (gives traditionalists a bad name) but Dolan actually did say this and it was reported in the Post, the News and every other New York source.

What is there to say “bravo” about in this case? If the guy’s a good football player, that’s all that matters. But self-identifying as “gay” means that he believes his penis and where he likes to put it is the most important thing ini his life and supersedes all else. And the Cardinal thinks this is a good thing?


30 posted on 03/09/2014 6:28:44 PM PDT by livius
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To: ClaytonP
My reply to Dolan and his bizarre, aberrant, anti-Catholic endorsements and rantings is

Bravo Sierra!!!

31 posted on 03/09/2014 6:49:02 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Gal 6:7)
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To: If You Want It Fixed - Fix It; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; ...
Myself, I will follow Jesus Christ, like Cardinal Dolan. Yoy can’t kill me so easy when I say “Bravo, Good for you!” though we disagree completely. Don’t live in fear like that football player, come out and feel the freedom to state your sinfulness and begin to see that you are more than a homosexual inclination. You are a child of God and deserve not just your free will, but all of his love - see the bible and Church on how to do that.

No, no one deserves God's love, as instead we are worthy of damnation, and the way God justifies the unGodly is by faith in Christ to save by His sinless shed blood and righteousness.

See the Bible (Rm. 3:10-5:1) and a real Bible church on that, which also teaches homosexual relations are sin.

32 posted on 03/09/2014 7:03:46 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ClaytonP

What is wrong with Cardinal Dolan? It seems that almost every time that I see something about him he has said something stupid.


33 posted on 03/09/2014 7:23:13 PM PDT by Bigg Red (1 Pt 1: As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct.)
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To: billhilly

Alter boys? Is that some new Transformer line?


34 posted on 03/09/2014 7:27:22 PM PDT by Bigg Red (1 Pt 1: As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct.)
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To: daniel1212

It is difficult to decide which admission this week is worst, Dolan above or Pope Francis’ admission of stealing a crucifix from a casket.


35 posted on 03/09/2014 7:42:08 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Farmer Dean
If a Cardinal in the Catholic church doesn’t feel qualified to say what is sin,what is he doing in that position of authority?

And the Bishops wonder why so many Catholics are confused?

36 posted on 03/09/2014 7:48:11 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Bigg Red

I’m not a Catholic, so you will have to make do with my language or ignore it. I will be happy if you choose the later.


37 posted on 03/09/2014 7:56:44 PM PDT by billhilly (Its OK, the left hated Bush.)
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To: redleghunter
It is difficult to decide which admission this week is worst, Dolan above or Pope Francis’ admission of stealing a crucifix from a casket.

I actually do not see the crucifix thing as really stealing, or comparable to Bravo for a coming out, but weekly we see things, that, while not unique to Rome or worse than many other churches, yet examples the diversity of RC faith and often its liberal nature, contrary to the image avid RC supporters seek to paint of it. a couple more:

Cardinal O’Malley, female Methodist pastor team up on ritual

http://www.patriotledger.com/x890778978/To-a-female-Methodist-minister-a-surprise-request-from-Cardinal-O-Malley?zc_p=0

Charismatic priests battle Catholic flight.

About 6 000 faithful are seated and thousands more are standing, all waiting for the master of ceremonies and face of the movement - 46-year-old rock star Catholic priest Marcelo Rossi. - http://www.news24.com/World/News/Charismatic-priests-battle-Catholic-flight-20130605

38 posted on 03/09/2014 8:02:14 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Bigg Red

Archbishop Timothy Dolan] also does not outright deny the sacrament to dissenting Catholic lawmakers, yet he is seen as an outspoken defender of church orthodoxy in a style favored by many theological conservatives. — from the thread US bishops elect NYC archbishop as head in upset (Catholic bloggers blamed) http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2711746/posts?page=289#289


39 posted on 03/09/2014 8:04:19 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Cardinal Dolan has betrayed his flock.

Jesus was very specific about the need to stop sinning in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The difference between judging and making a value judgment should be understood by the good Cardinal. He should teach it. But apparently not.

If there is no sin, then there must be no reward for a life of faith and virtue.

Moral relativism ... from the church? They did not learn that from Jesus or the Apostles.


40 posted on 03/09/2014 9:45:50 PM PDT by JT Hatter (Who is Barack Obama? And What is He Really Up To?)
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To: ClaytonP

EWTN is currently running video programs with Cardinal Dolan for Lent.    Catholics may want to consider contacting EWTN (website "http://www.ewtn.com/"), and strongly urging them to remove those video programs from their lineup.

41 posted on 03/09/2014 10:02:27 PM PDT by Heart-Rest ("Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Gal 6:7)
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To: SoFloFreeper

My “gadar” pegs into the red whenever I see a picture of Dolan.


42 posted on 03/09/2014 11:52:37 PM PDT by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Heart-Rest

This Cardinal is doing no favors for Catholics.


43 posted on 03/10/2014 7:18:45 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: ClaytonP

The same bible also tells us that homosexuals are going to be destroyed by God Himself.

This is not ABOUT liking or not liking the post, hence passing “judgement”. Our Lord compels us to discern the spirits, to ‘test’ these things to see whether they are from God, or if they are of the Devil. If we do not acknowledge sin when we see it, then there is nothing stopping God from destroying us either, as He will judge us as an accessory to evil. Doesn’t matter who you are.

Then again, why we continue to be surprised by the Catholic church is beyond me, as history has allowed us to be enlightened by it’s atrocities and rebellion against God’s Laws.

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter.” Isaiah 5:20

“He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD”. Proverbs 17:15.


44 posted on 03/13/2014 11:11:25 AM PDT by ourworldawry
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