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Barter Goods
Survival Blog ^ | 3/14 | C.Y.

Posted on 03/20/2014 7:03:59 PM PDT by Kartographer

This article is about identifying, stocking, and using the post collapse equivalent of a pocket full of dollar bills. It should be enough that if someone is trading eggs or socks you can buy a pair without having to run back to the house, but not so much that if someone robs you at gunpoint, you've lost a major part of your savings. That's barter.

I define trading being qualitatively different, because it involves much higher-value items. Trading involves some psychology on both sides, similar to buying a car or a house, as opposed to daily shopping. Also, it is less likely you will know the other person or people involved. Trading is the subject of another article, because you don't want to have a reputation for doing it (or, more precisely, doing it for a living). Professional traders have always been distrusted, even by those they know. House flippers, car salesmen, and traditional horse dealers are good examples. However, if you continually trade goods (services are different and safer, because the buyer has a stake in keeping you alive and happy), you'll also have to deal with people you don't know. This is a temptation for the opportunists among them to follow you home. You might drive them off with gunfire, maybe wound a few, but the rest will still be out there, and you and yours have to leave the house eventually.

(Excerpt) Read more at survivalblog.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: preparedness; preppers
For your review and comments.
1 posted on 03/20/2014 7:03:59 PM PDT by Kartographer
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To: appalachian_dweller; OldPossum; DuncanWaring; VirginiaMom; CodeToad; goosie; kalee; ...

Preppers’ PING!!


2 posted on 03/20/2014 7:04:29 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

3 posted on 03/20/2014 7:17:40 PM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: JoeProBono

I’m not saying nothing, but I suggest that you put on your flame suit!!


4 posted on 03/20/2014 7:18:54 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Copper in pocket sized amounts, could be a coin, could be bullion, safer to have a pound of copper than an ounce of silver. Even if you buy a foot of solid copper bar and slice off your own rounds, they can function as barter tools.


5 posted on 03/20/2014 7:23:22 PM PDT by Spartan302
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To: Kartographer

If a total reset is in store then I don’t think barter will be an issue for a while. Just surviving while the locusts swarm out of their holes will be difficult enough.

AFTER the swarm has burned itself out barter may become relevant. Until then, self defense and keeping a low profile are the order of the day.

(Let’s hope it isn’t a total reset.)


6 posted on 03/20/2014 7:33:34 PM PDT by EternalHope (Something wicked this way comes. Be ready.)
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To: Kartographer

I won’t need anything from anyone and I’m not bartering which I think is dangerous as hell. I have gobs of bartering items bought for that but they are useful items to me, too, so I’ll keep them until I see a safe use for them.

Why would I prepare and leave out something thinking I could barter to get it? That makes no sense.

People who would want to barter right off the bat, are not prepared, they need stuff, and they would be dangerous to be around. No, I’m staying scarce and not being seen. After all, I’m just an old lady who is afraid to leave her house and she couldn’t have anything anyone wanted anyway.


7 posted on 03/20/2014 7:36:10 PM PDT by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today.))
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To: Kartographer

I recall a freeper a while ago mentioning whiskey as a barter item. It does have a long shelf life.


8 posted on 03/20/2014 7:37:20 PM PDT by posterchild
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To: posterchild

Listerine ?


9 posted on 03/20/2014 7:38:06 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Kartographer
I lived through the collapse of the Soviet Union. At the time the main barter items were Maxell audio cassette tapes, blank VHS tapes, Nescafe freeze dried coffee, American-made Marlboro cigarettes, and a few others like Snickers bars. I bought taxi rides and all sorts of other things with cassette tapes.

The main thing is that it be of recognized valuable in and of itself, convenient to transport, and relatively cheap per unit so they're easy to trade other things for. There was always a set market for those things. The ruble was worthless, and dollars were scarce and generally illegal at least in theory. But those things always had a going market in both currencies. The speculator was the guy who knew all the day's prices.

I'd say that the best bet for tradable goods in the event we have a SHTF even is standard ammunition (I like Remington .22 lr because everybody has a .22 gun so demand will always be high and it will be pretty cheap per unit - it would become the next dollar - so everybody would accept it as currency). 9 mm is probably next best, because it's become the gun of choice for self defense. 30-06 is a standard hunting round and there are tons of 30-06 rifles out there, so that would be good, too. I would think that things like laundry detergent in standard sizes - like the $20 bottle of Tide at Walmart - and Pampers diapers, etc.

I have to say that I just can't see the kind of scenario many preppers envision. When the USSR fell apart, it wasn't like there wasn't anything at all to eat or drink. It's just that the ruble was worthless and nobody wanted it. The wheels kept turning, and there were all sorts of dislocations, but people always figured it out.

I think that if we have another 2008-type financial meltdown but maybe bigger we'll have bad dislocations, nobody will want the dollar, and so forth, but you'll still be able to buy stuff it's just that they'll only take ammo or something like that in exchange.

10 posted on 03/20/2014 7:45:56 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: posterchild

Whiskey would be good. I would think that getting several cases of those little hotel-room sized bottles of a widely recognized and desirable brand of any alcoholic beverage would be a great way to go. Say, 1,000 little bottles of Smirnov or Stolichnaya vodka. That would be perfect. It will last for years, is of standard intrinsic value, easily concealed, easily transported, always in demand. I would say don’t get the big bottles like five gallons of Kirkland vodka at Costco - too hard to trade. Far better to have in that situation 100 dollar bills than a single Ben Franklin. Get a whole bunch of the little ones instead. They’ll be as good as gold.


11 posted on 03/20/2014 7:52:35 PM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Kartographer

Good subject to discuss.

In a SHTF scenario certain items will be universally in demand.
Food, fuel, ammo, eventually even shoes, socks, etc.

But anytime we barter something it gives the other person information about our own supply status.
That’s something to consider.

And while it’s a no brainer to barter a can of beans with just about anyone, bartering ammo to people not well known can present problems if they turn around and use it against you.


12 posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:02 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The future ain't what it use to be -- Yogi Berra)
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To: Iron Munro

Develop skills or know someone who has them.
Know what has value.
Never stop prepping.


13 posted on 03/20/2014 8:16:52 PM PDT by Texas resident (The democrat party is now the CPUSA)
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To: Kartographer; ChocChipCookie; Marcella; Bride Of Old Sarge; WakeUpAndVote; yorkiemom; ...
Never, EVER, barter your ammo.

During my downrange time overseas, we had no problems with ammunition. Burned through a few magazines? No worries, First Sergeant will be by shortly with the LOGPAC, and you can reload. What, Top ain't coming yet? No problem you can cross-level with Smitty.

But now this is SHTF. This is TEOTWAWKI. This is "Survivor: Ruby Ridge". There's no First Sergeant, no LOGPAC, and the neighbor next to you would just as soon shoot you and take all your ammo (and your daughters) for his later use.

Oh, you want to trade "ballistic wampum"? Sure, no problem! Hey guys, see what that doofus just traded us? What else does he got?

And at 0300, you have your former trading partner, and his boyfriends, storming your house, taking your stash of supplies (and your daughters), and laughing at you as you bleed out on the carpet.

The bullet you trade in the morning will be shot back at you in the night.

Never, EVER, barter your ammo.

14 posted on 03/20/2014 8:18:28 PM PDT by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Old Sarge

I think that if the SHTF, the only way to survive will be to shoot anyone you see.


15 posted on 03/20/2014 8:28:36 PM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: EternalHope

I think of “prepping” only in terms of prepping for those at my house AND my family living away from here....if I have extra tin foil or plastic wrap or extra canned veggies or aspirin, or spam or toliet paper, I’m sure it’ll go to good use within just my extended family..


16 posted on 03/20/2014 8:28:53 PM PDT by cherry
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To: Gluteus Maximus

interesting post thanks


17 posted on 03/20/2014 8:31:00 PM PDT by Therapsid
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To: Lazamataz; Marcella

OPSEC uber alles...

If someone’s passing by and all they see is a trashy abandoned-looking place that looks like it’s been picked over, they shrug and move on.

That’s where Marcella’s “Gray Woman” tactic comes in - right, darlin’?


18 posted on 03/20/2014 8:31:24 PM PDT by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Therapsid

Ive got bit coin....should be ok ....right?

:)


19 posted on 03/20/2014 8:34:55 PM PDT by Therapsid
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To: Gluteus Maximus; Kartographer

Couple points.
.22 ammo stored for a couple years can have a high fizzle factor.

Laundry detergent. I no longer use laundry detergent or bleach. I recently bought ($300) a Pure Wash. It’s an ozone generator that injects ozone into your cold water and cleans and disinfects your laundry. No detergent, no bleach, no hot water. Local dairy farmers have found they can hook it up to a hose and have a disinfecting wash down.
Which means it is a water disinfectant. 12 volt operation off of a plug in power converter.

Trade is what makes countries wealthy and is what will keep civilization going.


20 posted on 03/20/2014 9:32:38 PM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: Kartographer

I like seeds.


21 posted on 03/20/2014 9:37:29 PM PDT by Ellendra ("Laws were most numerous when the Commonwealth was most corrupt." -Tacitus)
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To: posterchild
I recall a freeper a while ago mentioning whiskey as a barter item. It does have a long shelf life.

Not in my house.

22 posted on 03/20/2014 9:44:47 PM PDT by Veggie Todd (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. TJ)
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To: posterchild

Not in My house. I’d have to hide it really well or someone would drink it all before I had a chance to barter it.


23 posted on 03/20/2014 10:01:48 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Gluteus Maximus

Thanks for the post. That observation about the collapse of the Soviet Union, makes more sense to me that the nothing nowhere nohow scenario.


24 posted on 03/20/2014 10:20:06 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Kartographer

In additon to stocking up, I try to move toward being as self sufficient as possible, and get the skills I need for that.


25 posted on 03/20/2014 10:21:56 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Gluteus Maximus

Very good perspective.


26 posted on 03/20/2014 11:28:00 PM PDT by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: Lazamataz
I think that if the SHTF, the only way to survive will be to shoot anyone you see.

I think you might be right during the first 90 days.
27 posted on 03/20/2014 11:34:33 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: Old Sarge
If someone’s passing by and all they see is a trashy abandoned-looking place that looks like it’s been picked over, they shrug and move on.

I have considered both Ferfal and Selco in this scenario. Sometimes it is better to just look at a place that says keep moving.

It all depends on the scale of SHTF. If really the number 10, there will be no people passing without being stopped or diverted away.

JMHO. YMMV.

I have to do a post on proximity detectors. These fellows just work. I put them up for the deer problems we are having. They will drive you crazy. With Mr. Beams and wireless cameras you will not have issues with people sneaking up on you.

I am testing with deers and raccoons. Sadly, I am getting a bit of shadenfreude dealing with them. They just work. Long life with batteries. I can sleep at night.

A subject for another day.
28 posted on 03/20/2014 11:44:46 PM PDT by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
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To: PA Engineer

If you post that, please ping me - I’d LOOOVE to see how it’s done...


29 posted on 03/21/2014 4:03:41 AM PDT by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Cold Heart
.22 ammo stored for a couple years can have a high fizzle factor.

That has not been my experience.
I have several thousand rounds of CCI Blazer .22 - the cheapest stuff I could get - that's many, many years old, and every time I take out a box to shoot I've have zero failures.

30 posted on 03/21/2014 4:51:47 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: Old Sarge
If someone’s passing by and all they see is a trashy abandoned-looking place that looks like it’s been picked over, they shrug and move on.

Sooner or later, someone's likely to come by who wants to burn it, just because it hasn't been burned yet.

31 posted on 03/21/2014 5:06:31 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: grobdriver

I’ve got most of a 500-round box I bought about 15 years ago, (Remington?), brass-plated bullets, and lubricated.

It still shoots 100%.

The problem is that the lubricant has dried-out somewhat, and in a pump-action rifle I’ve got, after 10 or 15 rounds the empty case won’t extract; I have to push it out with a cleaning rod and clean the barrel.


32 posted on 03/21/2014 5:10:22 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
after 10 or 15 rounds the empty case won’t extract

Huh.
I'm shooting a Ruger 10/22 and a Ruger MkII pistol.
No issues.

The only lubricant on a cartridge should be on the bullet, not on the case.
Have you checked the extractor on the rifle? I guess if new .22 (if you can find it) extracts flawlessly then the extractor's good... and you say it works OK until a dozen rounds are fired... still and all, crud in the barrel from dirty ammo (Blazer fits that description) shouldn't hinder extraction.

33 posted on 03/21/2014 5:17:58 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: grobdriver

I’ve taken it apart and cleaned the bolt/extractor assembly as best I can with spray cleaner (Outers?) and relubricated that mechanism.

Other, newer/nonlubricated ammo feeds/ejects much more reliably.


34 posted on 03/21/2014 6:38:20 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring
Huh.

Different brands have different size case rims - could be a marginal rim size and a marginal (worn) extractor.
Stick with what works and good luck to you!

35 posted on 03/21/2014 6:41:52 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: Old Sarge; Lazamataz; All
“That’s where Marcella’s “Gray Woman” tactic comes in - right, darlin’?”

Yes. I'll move my car from in front of my place. No light will be seen coming from my place as I have black out blinds that go up quickly. No smell of food will come out of my house. I have a solar panel hooked to recharger and rechargeable batteries for power so there won't be noise from a generator since I don't have one and won't need it.

Someone on here is recommending a motion detector for long range notification of movement. I have a battery motion detector alarm for my back small garden and front window has vibration detector to go off if the window is touched enough to cause vibration and front door is hardened against being kicked open, and has battery operated motion detector under the door in case it moves even a tiny bit. I have “defensive” weapons to use in case any sensor sounds.

Everything I have causes no sound except for the motion and vibration detectors and defensive weapons.

If I have to be seen, my hair won't be combed and I have old lady type clothes bought for that reason that will be wrinkled and I'll dirty my hands so I won't look freshly washed.

I look at this like playing a part in a movie. I'll be playing an old lady with nothing and whatever it takes to play that part, I have it.

I have one fixation - every time I go to the grocery, I pick up a package of dried multi-bean soup mix and a box of instant rice. I have a fast way to cook dried beans and instant rice will cook with the beans. Those two items are so cheap and available, and would provide a lot of good tasting soup and be a complete protein with the added rice, that I just keep picking those up.

An extended family member who lives 5 hours away, knows I'm a prepper and he says prepping is a good thing to do but it costs a lot of money. So, he has nothing. All he has thought about is having many pounds of dried beans sealed in a trash can. He hasn't thought about how one would provide water and heat to cook those beans which would taste flat without any seasoning if he managed some way to cook them.

Prepping first requires a plan so one doesn't freak out at the thought of the magnitude of it. Then, action has to be taken to begin that plan and follow it until the plan is complete. Everyone’s plan will be different as needs are different from person to person. Shelter, water, food, power, protection, medical needs, sanitation, are basic needs but each of those needs are large within its category when you begin to prep for each one.

A person will never prep until he/she actually starts doing it. Thinking won't buy a bag of dry bean soup mix and a box of instant rice, but picking it up at the store will.

36 posted on 03/21/2014 7:32:16 AM PDT by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today.))
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To: Kartographer
Spices...

In a true SHTF sit-u Spices will be at a premium because a majority of them are imported...

Sam's Club usually has a large assortment in large containers for cheap. They store well and the can be easily broken down to smaller amounts (old prescription pill bottles work great)

37 posted on 03/21/2014 7:39:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: Marcella
After reading your excellent treatise, I am encouraged to share with you my plan. I will start with step 1:
1. I am so screwed.

38 posted on 03/21/2014 7:49:36 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Lazamataz

“1. I am so screwed.”

I have told you over and over, that woman is not going back to your house, so you might as well start prepping. :o)


39 posted on 03/21/2014 8:04:12 AM PDT by Marcella ((Prepping can save your life today.))
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To: Marcella

You are so right.

What people don’t realize is how quickly preps can be accumulated, even if you are just picking up one or two extras every time you hit the store.

With food prices continuing to climb, I look at it this way - there is no excuse for throwing away spoiled food, which is just money wasted. If you can afford to throw away food, you can afford to prep - you just have to shop smarter.


40 posted on 03/21/2014 8:28:47 AM PDT by LadyBuck (....and we're off to the rodeo......)
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To: grobdriver
CCI has been reliable, other brands not so much. Not just my experience but many others. A lot depends on storage conditions. I have had match grade 7.62 go bad but that was 30 year old stuff. All had excess fouling and two misfire. out of twenty.
41 posted on 03/21/2014 8:30:06 AM PDT by Cold Heart
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To: Cold Heart
A lot depends on storage conditions

I was concerned about that myself - but we're talking decades in ammo boxes in a Central Texas garage.
Same for good quantities of .223 and .45 stuff put up at the same time

I don't worry about storage conditions so much any more. I've made room inside for my ammo, but it'll probably be good long past when I'm gone - if I don't shoot it up.

42 posted on 03/21/2014 8:34:01 AM PDT by grobdriver (Where is Wilson Blair when you need him?)
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To: PA Engineer
It all depends on the scale of SHTF.

I agree. Like I said, I lived through a major collapse. I was fortunate to have been in Moscow when much of that went down. It's not a "Mad Max" scenario. There were some border wars and of course Chechnya was right out of "The Road Warrior" but those were extreme exceptions with very specific aggravating factors. It wasn't like Mad Max at all. It was more like a constant foraging for basics. You spent all sorts of time that.

So long as you don't live where there are a lot of people EBT cards (when they turn those off in an economic collapse, there will be rioting), you will be able to get along without dollars. Farmers will figure out a way to plant and harvest. Truckers will figure out a way to get the stuff to market. There will be stuff to buy. It's just that not having a regular monetary system makes all of that much, much more complicated.

So, to avoid the Mad Max scenario just don't live anywhere near a EBT population. And I mean nowhere near. Stay way far back because those are the elements in our society that will explode in the event of a financial collapse. Think Rodney King riots on steroids.

I would add that I think the libtards couldn't be more wrong about their strategy of getting everybody on the dole in order to cause a collapse so then the government can move forward with totalitarian centralized powers, a la Cloward-Piven. Based on my experience with the USSR's collapse, where everybody really was directly dependent on the government, when collapse came further centralization was the last thing on people's minds. What the average Soviet citizen (or Eastern Block) country understood very clearly was that if they had a chance to survive it was going to be at the local level. Remember what actually happened: the USSR did not get more centralized; rather, it split nicely along its internal borders. Same with Yugoslavia, although the inter-ethnic tensions really did give us a Mad Max scenario, tragically. But Yugoslavia did split up. Same with Czechoslovakia. Much of the history of the past 25 years was about adjusting those internal boundaries that became international ones, both in the Balkans and across all of Eurasia.

No, in my opinion, the libtards won't get a tightly centralized federal government wielding unchecked powers against the States and local governments. Quite to the contrary. A financial collapse might well mean States telling the Feds to go pi$$ up a rope. We are seeing the beginnings of that now with talk of nullification and Article V convention and so forth, IMHO.

Libtards really are lost in their fantasies. Their ingrained habit of shoehorning reality into their neo-Marxist narrative is their great weakness. That's why I think that a financial collapse would certainly be a big black cloud of misfortune for us but it would also have a nice, shining silvery lining. At the other end of the mess we might just wake up one day in a place completely free of libtards. I think that might just make the whole thing worthwhile.

43 posted on 03/21/2014 9:42:33 AM PDT by Gluteus Maximus
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To: Kartographer

bttt


44 posted on 03/21/2014 3:05:22 PM PDT by TEXOKIE (We must surrender only to our Holy God and never to the evil that has befallen us.)
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To: Mad Dawgg
In a true SHTF sit-u Spices will be at a premium because a majority of them are imported...

I've been investing in seeds for my favorite spices, as well as some that I don't use but most people do. This year I'm making a big push to expand my seed supply. I have a wide variety, but not much of each one.

If nothing else, seed saving is fun :)
45 posted on 03/22/2014 7:52:19 PM PDT by Ellendra ("Laws were most numerous when the Commonwealth was most corrupt." -Tacitus)
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