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Greenfield: The Long March Through the Republican Party
Sultan Knish blog ^ | Saturday, June 07, 2014 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 06/08/2014 6:01:13 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell

Saturday, June 07, 2014

The Long March Through the Republican Party

Posted by Daniel Greenfield @ the Sultan Knish blog

The Tea Party's epitaph has been written. A confident Republican establishment is now prepared to possibly take the Senate in 2014 and then lose it again in 2016 to another wave of historical change.

In its defense the establishment, a motley collection of men paid by special interest groups whose future involves lucrative lobbying and even more lucrative consulting for the midterm election of 2018 where they will run on opposition to HillaryCare, can point to all the stupid and flaky Tea Party candidates who lost winnable elections. And they have a point.

We wouldn't have to put up with Harry Reid or Chris Coons. Though we would still have Barack Obama in '08 and '12 because the establishment ran two men with no ability to appeal to people worried about losing their jobs and homes against a man who could do the "Feel your pain" dance.

The left didn't start with Obama. It was willing to run a roster of bad candidates with silly beliefs for higher office. And it watched as those candidates crashed and burned outside their urban safe havens. But the left didn't stop. It didn't sit back and accept that the Democratic Party's mainstream candidates would be the best it could get. Instead it doubled down and kept on doing it until it paid off.

It didn't matter if they became national jokes. It didn't matter if for a while the left seemed as likely to take higher office as Superman. The left thinks long term.

It built a coalition of its base groups and got them to agree to a single agenda. It got the unions and the NAACP to back illegal immigration and gay rights. It got the environmentalists to back illegal immigration. It got the unions to back the environment. There are tensions, but everyone falls into line even though the single agenda cuts the throats of their own working class voters.

Meanwhile the GOP has no idea who its base groups are and would like them to go away.

The GOP celebrating a victory over the Tea Party is like NBC celebrating a victory over its own highest rated shows. Finally the experts who gave us the Romney Presidency and the De Facto Amnesty talking point will, hopefully, drag the Senate out of Harry Reid's dead claws long after Obama and the Democratic Party discredited themselves with their own voters and even the media.

And they won't have to credit the Tea Party for it.

The Tea Party's role in politics has been flawed, but then how could it have been otherwise. Politics is a professional sport and in the age of television and Twitter, it's most easily played by people who have been polished by media experts and consultants, who know how to recite talking points and nothing else. And the people most likely to take over have their own agendas.

The left was willing to accept multiple defeats in the short term to build a machine and a momentum that would take it through the system. And it succeeded.

Of course the left had advantages that the right does not have. No matter how much of a mess the left made, the Democratic Party would hang on to racially gerrymandered districts and it would be buffered against any major national changes by a judiciary, academia and bureaucracy that was largely in its pocket.

Reagan might win the White House, but business would continue as usual in Washington D.C. and the entertainment industry would push social change its way. Obama is a disaster for traditional Americans, but Reagan was only a setback for the left. It could afford to organize around opposition to him because it knew that his ability to undo everything they had set into motion was very limited.

The right doesn't have those buffers. It couldn't afford eight years of Obama even after eight years of Bush. And it's easy to look around and see why. And yet it also can't afford the GOP establishment.

What's left is a choice between high stakes gambles on the future or dragging out the inevitable with the establishment. The Tea Party was a series of high stakes gambles, many of which did not pay off, but the road to Obamerica began with a series of high stakes gambles for the left.

And there are few short cuts.

The Republican Party once again brings nothing to the table. It's no longer playing against old gentle enemies like the Kennedy clan or the Chicago Machine. It's now up against an ascendant left backed by billionaires and the entertainment-media complex.

And '08 and '12 shows us how well it performs in that arena.

The GOP's soulless teleprompter machines are no match the soulless teleprompter machines of the left. The ones on the left are occasionally capable of mimicking human emotions and make much better TMZ fodder.

And the left also brings ideology to the table while the GOP brings a shopworn Americanism that is vague on definition and big on grandiose rhetoric. Unfortunately the left has already hijacked that rhetoric and used its vague grandiosity to sell everything from illegal immigration to gay rights.

Tomorrow Obama can give a speech surrounded by American flags and quote from Madison and Lincoln to explain why he has decided to sell America to Saudi Arabia. It will be an obscene perversion and hypocritical nonsense, but then it will only be a matter of time until the GOP opposition summons forth a candidate who gives the same speech but with more flags.

He will say that you can only trust the GOP to get the best deal when selling America to Saudi Arabia.

The GOP doesn't actually believe in anything. It's been through too many changes over the years. It's become a big tent for fiscal and social conservatives, as long as they don't actually try to set policy, for foreign policy hawks, as long as they don't push for anything Democrats are opposed to, and for an assortment of constituencies that add color and identity, but don't actually get their way.

Republicanism has become a bland colorless conservatism that stands for some sort of competence and a vague commitment to smaller government and a stronger national defense which exists in theory, not in practice. It's for morals, until they become too unfashionable. It's for apple pie, as long as it's not too fattening. It's for proving that the left is unfair to call it a crazy bunch of extremists.

In placid times, that can work. Ideology is tiresome and no one likes being yelled at. It's why the left does so poorly in most elections. But in troubled times, people want something to believe in. They don't want the hollow assurances of hollow men that everything is fine when it clearly isn't.

That's when the Republican Party actually has to stand for something and explain why it stands for it.

Neither party actually does that except in the vaguest of ways, but the public rightly senses that there is a system of coherent beliefs behind Obama. Many of them would run screaming for the exits if they had those beliefs spelled out for them, but they're not details people. They respond to passion and certainty. They like knowing that a candidate is animated by something more than careerism.

The public rightly sensed that there was no such system behind McCain or Romney. Both men believe things, but they're big on being pragmatists. Their beliefs adapt to the situation. They have their own moral centers, but it's not ideological. Their passions are personal, not political.

The Tea Party changed that. It had clear and compelling beliefs. It stood for something. And now the GOP stands alone and stands for nothing.

The Tea Party isn't dead, but the results didn't show up quickly enough and there were too many setbacks. And no one likes defeat.

Whenever I'm asked how to beat the left in Field X or Z, I answer that it will take a long march through the system, one way or another. It's either that or cut the field out of your life entirely.

That's true of public education and the entertainment industry. You either beat them at their own game by thinking long term or you cut them out of your lives. Politics isn't like that. Boycotting it isn't an option. Not in the long term. The game is absolute power and that absolutely includes power over you.

The left is collectivist and the right is individualistic. Individualism is the strength of the right, but it also means that the left can create a machine that feeds tens of thousands of its best and brightest into public education until it dominates the system and indoctrinates who passes through it. It can plan this out and carry it out for generations.

Meanwhile many on the right bail out when they don't see results after four years.

The left functions like an army. The right functions like a guerrilla movement. Guerrillas can outlast an army by resisting occupation, but not when the army is fanatical and singleminded, and not if it manages to control the territory.

If the right is to have a future, it has to start thinking long term. It has to learn to understand the territory and it has to stop assuming that showing up is most of the job or that one decisive battle will change everything. It's not and it won't.

The American Revolution was a fight between one of the world's leading powers and bands of ragged farmers. The farmers lost badly, over and over again. They learned slowly that you don't win wars on passion. You don't win them in one battle. You do it by staying in the fight.

The left in America began as a political insurgency. Now it runs everything. It can be beaten, but doing that will require learning a lot of painful lessons and picking up the necessary skills. There will be less passion and more technique. There will be more organization and less waste.

This won't end tomorrow or in 2016. Wars last a long time. They are passed on to children. They become a generational struggle. It's a daunting prospect for individuals as all wars are. But the alternative to the voluntary sacrifices necessary to win a war are the involuntary sacrifices that  come from losing it.


TOPICS: Government; History; Politics; Religion
KEYWORDS: gop; gope; greenfield; republicans; sultanknish

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Lou

1 posted on 06/08/2014 6:01:13 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell
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To: Louis Foxwell

Note to self: stop reading any article wherein the “tea party” is capitalized.


2 posted on 06/08/2014 6:09:14 AM PDT by Theophilus (Be as prolific as you are pro-life.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

An excellent summation of the problem, which is what we expect from Daniel.


3 posted on 06/08/2014 6:13:35 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: Theophilus

>>Note to self: stop reading any article wherein the “tea party” is capitalized.

Q.E.D


4 posted on 06/08/2014 6:14:56 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: daisy mae for the usa; AdvisorB; wizardoz; free-in-nyc; Vendome; Georgia Girl 2; blaveda; ...

Conservativism has 2 major weapons in this war. First, our country is historically and ideologically conservative. Liberals win by disguising themselves as conservative. Second, our country loves the military fighting a just war.

Democrats will take this away from Republicans by doing everything possible to denigrate the character of our involvement in war. They are traitorous to the guiding principles that get us into wars and that birthed us a nation.

The Republican party has become so deeply compromised by corruption, favoritism and power hungry politicians that it cannot stand for conservativism or take us into a just war.

The Republican party does not represent the core values of our nation any more than the Democrat party. They are both hopelessly corrupt. If they did not write the laws they would be condemned by them.

We have at hand the solution to our dilemma. We are developing a batallion of red blooded politicians who are chomping to take on the establishment of the Republican party. No such movement exists among Democrats. They are utterly sold out to their nasty brand of Marxism.

Destroying Democrats is only a matter of calling them by name, something Rino Republicans refuse to do.

The Tea Party is not a political party. It is a movement of people searching for ways to overcome political corruption and reestablish this nation to its proper place as the global leader of decency and honor. To do that the gremlins must be purged. It is happening slowly but it is happening.

5 posted on 06/08/2014 6:22:16 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Theophilus

Tea Party deserves the honorific of capitalization. It is a capital concept with capital citizens engaged in a capital enterprise to restore our nation. What about that does not deserve capitalization?


6 posted on 06/08/2014 6:25:12 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

My question...will the tea party ever be powerful enough to take down the GOPe?

Time is not a luxury for conservatives, and though it seems some inroads have been and will be made, it is hardly enough.

I can’t stop this cynical/pessimistic thinking, as what I am seeing is not in line with what I am hoping.


7 posted on 06/08/2014 6:38:59 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: expat1000

“Politics is a professional sport “

And there is no way you put a rookie or amateur on the field in a big stakes game like the teaparty often tried to do.


8 posted on 06/08/2014 7:15:07 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: Louis Foxwell
...First, our country is historically and ideologically conservative...

If by "historically", you mean "once upon a time...", I agree with you. The political leftists have been working *HARD* to steer new generations of potential conservatives to the left via the education system/indoctrination centers since the 60's (or longer?). Between govt over-reach encroaching on liberty; runaway entitlements becoming the new normal and marginalizing early history (if not outright teaching that the conservative point of view is "bad"), kids grow up thinking that it is all well and good to think "screw the country, Im'ma do what feels good for *me*"!

In 10 years or less, I would not be surprised if 0bama will be part of the curriculum and prioritized over the founders as, "this is the way govt should work".

Nowadays? I think we would be optimistic to say the country is still *almost* half-conservative. Correction, "half-republican". It may be optimistic to think half the GOP is conservative because a whole bunch of Republicans are still eagerly and enthusiastically voting for McCain, Romney, Boehner, McConnell and assorted GOP political-prostitutes, etc. (not on FR of course, but in the voting booth). If we can't find decent, conservative leaders willing to run against and capable of defeating do-nothings like Boehner and McConnell, then I believe we have a loooooong, arduous road back to the philosophy and vision of the founders ahead of us.

9 posted on 06/08/2014 7:33:24 AM PDT by jaydee770
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To: Louis Foxwell
Tea Party deserves the honorific of capitalization. It is a capital concept with capital citizens engaged in a capital enterprise to restore our nation. What about that does not deserve capitalization?

A capital idea if I do say so myself :)

10 posted on 06/08/2014 8:17:34 AM PDT by broken_clock (Do it Sarah! Cut the ties that bind.)
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To: staytrue

“And there is no way you put a rookie or amateur on the field in a big stakes game like the teaparty often tried to do.”

You are correct - So the GOPe did something even better

They gave us the Maverick in 2008. A RINO of unprecedented socialist dictator leanings

They gave us the architect of RomnieCare in 2012. A RINO of unprecedented socialist dictator leanings


11 posted on 06/08/2014 8:19:53 AM PDT by DanZ
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To: Louis Foxwell
The left is collectivist and the right is individualistic. Individualism is the strength of the right, but it also means that the left can create a machine that feeds tens of thousands of its best and brightest into public education until it dominates the system and indoctrinates who passes through it. It can plan this out and carry it out for generations.

And therein lies our problem.
It is individualism against the machine.
If we become a machine to beat the machine, did we win or were we converted?
Or do we wait until the machine self destructs and then revert back to individualism?

12 posted on 06/08/2014 8:28:23 AM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington)
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To: oldbrowser; ek_hornbeck
The left is collectivist and the right is individualistic. Individualism is the strength of the right, but it also means that the left can create a machine that feeds tens of thousands of its best and brightest into public education until it dominates the system and indoctrinates who passes through it. It can plan this out and carry it out for generations.

And therein lies our problem.
It is individualism against the machine.
If we become a machine to beat the machine, did we win or were we converted?
Or do we wait until the machine self destructs and then revert back to individualism?

Outside the United States and other Anglosphere countries the Right isn't so individualistic. It's collectivism is more "organic" than that of the Left, but it's collectivism nonetheless. In fact the European Right sees individualism as a component of Leftism.

It was a French Right winger (Charles Maurras or Maurice Barres) who said "the individual is nothing; society is everything" and the famous German Right wing intellectual Oswald Spengler who insisted that he supported "true socialism," which Leftism was not. He accused Bolshevism was not really socialism, but a form of capitalism in which the proletariat aimed to dispossess the bourgeoisie and then live off it. (Ironically, in The Blue Book of the John Birch Society JBS founder Robert Welch devotes a chapter to promoting Spengler's views, which he consistently misrepresents. While Spengler was an organic collectivist Welch claims that Spengler identifies the decay of civilizations with the move from individualism to collectivism.)

The American Right could become more like the European Right but would lose much of its soul in the process. There are (or have been) Falangist parties in the United States, but Latin Fascism (as opposed to Nazism) is truly alien to the American mind.

13 posted on 06/08/2014 9:03:44 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Well done. It is this “American mind” that is at issue. 3 generations of educational and cultural effort to erase it have done little more than waken a sleeping giant. Still bleary eyed but nonetheless awake and alert Americanism is clear that it is under attack from within.
\When the war begins it will be over quickly because leftists are nothing if not cowards. Just as Muslims ran for the desert when Europe finally began to drive them out we can fully expect liberal/fascists to dig deeply into their lairs (college campuses, leftist journals, SanFran, media and entertainment venues, NYC, ChiTown)and lay low. They will give up every inch they have gained to live to infect another generation.
The war is truly never over. When under attack demons slink into the cracks in the earth out of which they crawled. They will fester in the earth until they feel safe to reemerge and spread their infection again. Eternal vigilence is the price of liberty.


14 posted on 06/08/2014 9:29:38 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

While I agree with many things in this article it hugely misses the most glaring point. America’s problems are almost all moral. There was never a golden era in the past for our nation - it has always had problems. But having said that, it’s also true that most (whether they chose to practice it or not) adhered to a common value system. While not all those in early America were Christian, most were at least willing to go along with a system of government founded on its principles. If you do not base your beliefs on those enshrined in the Bible then you have NO solid foundation to stand on - and that is why we are where we are today. We are a nation that believes there are no moral absolutes. It’s really turning out great for us isn’t it. Democrats and Republicans are almost all lying manipulators out for all they can get. Most do not want Christianity because they like the self life and don’t want to be reminded of their responsibility to their Creator. Many believe they are really good people - and by merely human standards - maybe that’s true. But when we measure ourselves up against God’s Son we don’t compare too well. We are all sinners but God offers us a solution - His solution - to that problem. It’s free but it does have a price - living a holy life (only possible with the Holy Spirit’s help), deferring to God’s plan for your life vs Franky’s, “I did it my way…”, and being concerned about God’s honor more than the pain of life that you may be called on to experience in being true to him. (Job comes to mind from the Old Testament). What to most seems like a straight jack and religious “slavery”, is actually freedom, peace that passes all understanding and real joy and contentment regardless of circumstances. America may fall, we may be attacked, or continue our gradual slide into a socialist dictatorship, etc., etc. but God’s Kingdom is unstoppable - read Psalm 2 for details ;- ) I love my country and grieve for her but unless there is national repentance from at least 1/4 to 1/3 of our nation I don’t see how the future can ever be bright again. I can’t understand how people can look at our country and not see that it is corruption (lying, cheating, immorality, bribes, extortion, favoritism and the list goes on) moral corruption that is killing us - then turn around and say that all we need is good fiscal policy or better families or better education (feel free to plug in your favorite solution). The fact is we are ALL very susceptible to sin - it comes very easy and natural to all of us. It’s why people in general, and politicians in particular, find it so easy to “compromise” and to not have a back bone. It’s why people like Bill Clinton are so popular. He was, on the surface, a really likable guy - and beneath the surface he was like most other men - living the self life. It’s not that Christians think they are better (ok, there are SOME that feel that way but they are dead wrong) they just know how destructive sin is and want to warn others of its consequences - you know, short term pleasure - long term pain. It’s like the person that falls overboard with their 50 lb. bag of gold. They don’t want to let go but if they don’t, well, you know. For the believer in God, he or she knows that there is an all powerful Creator that has the future in his hands AND hears their prayers - no matter how evil, powerful and threatening the other side is (or “appears” to be) - the Old Testament is full of these stories and examples for us to learn from. Many considered giving their life a privilege to honor God (Steven at his stoning). That is the kind of person we need defending our constitution and our liberties and leading our nation - remember the painting of George Washington praying (?). However, REAL Christians seem to be in short supply in America today. Most are just people giving lip service but when the battle gets hot - they fold and slink away - too worried about what their family may say or the folks at the office or the media might say. That’s why Ted Cruz is such a threat to the left. He is FEARLESS because he has faith in an ALMIGHTY God. Yes, he’s a smart well educated guy - but that’s not where his strength comes from. If you can’t see these things for what they are you will not be part of any solution (if there is going to be one) but you will remain part of the problem and blind to your own fallenness. What verse in the Bible could be more appropriate than the one that states: “Righteousness exalts a nation but sin is a reproach to any people.”? Our most pressing problem is not Obamacare, Syria or a balanced budget. It is moral rot and decay. What turns nations around when they get to this level? What is there in our culture powerful enough to correct and purify these things from us and cause us to seek after morally honoring and loving behaviors? What makes people so want to do the right thing that they are willing to suffer for it? There is only one solution - repentance and forgiveness through the sacrifice of God’s son and his power to free us from the grip that sin has on our individual lives and the throat of our nation. Remember… Ninevah repented in one day and God spared the city. Will he not do it for our cities and our nation as well? He would but we want none of it so most likely we will go the way of other nations before us. It’s easy today to imagine an America where Christians and God fearing Jews are hated and are the “new” scapegoat class. Really, it’s already here. Anything that reminds people of God’s standards, his ownership and Lordship of the earth and all creation and our responsibility to him is demonized, ridiculed and legislated against. True Christians are about building Christ Kingdom and are about doing his work. The side benefit to a nation that has a lot of true Christians is that that nation has a lot of moral people. True moral people are honest, tell the truth even when it hurts, do not compromise with evil even if it means they loose their life. America used to have a lot more of that type of person then she does today and our institutions, while not perfect, honored Biblical ideas to a far greater extent than today. Morality and true spirituality are what is missing from America. Those areas are what is causing our down fall - not Rino Republicans or Marxist leftists, or Obama, or Harry Reid, etc., etc. Real change in the right direction means human effort alone will never solves our problems. We must individually and nationally humble ourselves before our Creator and seek his solutions. Evil is in ascendency in our nation. The price for stopping it, if it is to be stopped, will be very high. There are a few who are in fight to stop it. Will those few be enough? I don’t know. I just don’t see our indifferent and pleasure seeking culture wanting anything to do with being moral let alone wanting Jesus, his cross, his shed blood and the salvation he offers. Individuals still come to him - just not in sufficient numbers to save our country. Now our own government is against anything and anyone that will stand in its way. Homosexuality is the new stick to be used in beating the Church. Soon it will be illegal to preach against it - you know - hate speech, homophobic extremists and all the rest. Can true persecution be far away for those that name the name of Christ and who’s lives seek to honor him? Perhaps America’s downfall should cause us all to seek a better kingdom and a better King while the opportunity to repent still exists.


15 posted on 06/08/2014 11:00:07 AM PDT by Lake Living
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To: Lake Living

Yep.


16 posted on 06/08/2014 11:07:57 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: PoloSec

It’s about a hundred years too early to quit.


17 posted on 06/08/2014 1:14:38 PM PDT by GOPJ (https://www.projectveritas.com/home/)
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To: Louis Foxwell

For me, the tea parties were a convulsive reaction of a dying Republic at the revelation and realization that the government is inextricably and insidiously integrated into the economy and that no political opposition in favor of the Constitution, a free market or the principles that our nation was founded on exists.


18 posted on 06/08/2014 1:54:08 PM PDT by Theophilus (Be as prolific as you are pro-life.)
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To: staytrue

Good candidates or bad, conservatives are going to keep on losing until they abandon this self-destructive, juvenile, refusal to even fight unless all their standards of ideological purity are met.

You have a perfect example of that in this thread where someone won’t read an article by one of the very best analysts – and BTW also strategists, - that we have because he doesn’t like the author’s use of capitalization.

And when liberals lose, they don’t spend the next 2/4 years castigating those candidates. They get up off their asses and work on strategies to win. And then they win.


19 posted on 06/08/2014 5:59:12 PM PDT by expat1000
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To: expat1000

Good to hear from you Expat. How are things under the coup in Thailand?


20 posted on 06/09/2014 5:21:59 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell
How are things under the coup in Thailand?

Probably about like things under the coup in America, only less irritating because the Thai Military is a much better keeper of the Thai people's integrity and the Obama Maladministration is of the American people's.

21 posted on 06/09/2014 12:29:46 PM PDT by Jack Black ( Disarmament of a targeted group is one of the surest early warning signs of future genocide.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; oldbrowser
I think one counterexample easily shows that Left vs. Right is a little more complicated than a spectrum of extreme collectivism to extreme individualism. If you ask a conservative vs. a liberal "are you willing to fight and die for your country," who is more likely to honestly say "yes"? The conservative. Yet what can be less "individualistic" and more collectivist than sacrificing your life, or that of friends and loved ones, for the good of your country?

Everyone has both an individual identity and a collective/group identity. The difference between left and right is often what you attach your group identity to.

22 posted on 06/09/2014 12:44:18 PM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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To: ek_hornbeck
If you ask a conservative vs. a liberal "are you willing to fight and die for your country," who is more likely to honestly say "yes"? The conservative. Yet what can be less "individualistic" and more collectivist than sacrificing your life, or that of friends and loved ones, for the good of your country?

In order to have a country, you have to have an agreement among the membership.

T difference between the collectivist and the individuals is that the individual believes that the collectivism is a necessary evil and should only be used when absolutely necessary

Collectivists believe that individualism is a necessary evil that should be kept to the absolute minimum and collectivism is always the preferred system.

23 posted on 06/09/2014 4:04:23 PM PDT by oldbrowser (We have a rogue government in Washington)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Hi Louis,

Glad to see you are keeping up the good work! :-)

I live in a smallish town, and am not much affected by the political situation here. I don’t expect it to get violent in any case.


24 posted on 06/10/2014 2:14:54 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: expat1000

Thank you. Thinking of you 1/2 way around the world. Keep the faith.


25 posted on 06/10/2014 5:24:30 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Thinking of you too. G-d bless!


26 posted on 06/10/2014 6:15:35 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: oldbrowser
The point I was making is that conservatives and liberals are individualistic and collectivist about different things.

The Left in America is economically collectivist, but their lack of patriotism and obsession with the sexual license is in a very real sense selfish and individualistic.

Consersely, the Right is individualistic in the economic sense but has a stronger collective national, community/civic, or religious identity. In other words, the distinction between Left and Right isn't individualism vs. collectivism, but rather the entities and concepts of the collective allegiance.

27 posted on 06/11/2014 7:28:11 AM PDT by ek_hornbeck
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