Skip to comments.Obama Seeks to Confiscate All Apache Helicopters from National Guard - Promises 10 to Egypt
Posted on 06/21/2014 6:28:29 AM PDT by huldah1776
According to reports, the Army National Guard is pushing back against a plan to send every one of its 192 Apache attack helicopters to the active duty Army. Some may think this is no big deal. However, this is coming from an administration that loathes the military and wants to weaken America to the point that it cannot defend herself. The trade would replace the Guard's attack helicopters with 111 UH-60 Black Hawks, basically transport and utility helicopters. This trade comes amid claims that there are deep budget cuts, according to Obama's own sequestration. Make no mistake, this is an attack on the Second Amendment.
Ben Watson writes:
The restructuring would also eliminate three of 13 combat aviation brigades from the Army, while the Guard would phase out its entire fleet of OH-58 Kiowa Warrior scout helicopters, which have been in use for nearly five decades.
This shakeup of Army air assets amounts to some $12 billion in cost-saving measures through fiscal year 2017, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee at a hearing Tuesday.
"None of us like what we're having to do," National Guard Chief Gen. Frank Grass told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday, the military website Defense One reported. "My big concern right now is figuring out how I'm going to move, and how many states I'm going to have an impact on, and what's the cost of facilities and to retrain pilots. I've got to tackle that because the decision's been made."
Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno also testified, saying the aviation restructure allows the Army to "eliminate obsolete airframes, reduce sustainment costs and organize ourselves to meet our operational commitments and imperatives."
Earlier this month, Grass told the House Appropriations Committee that the Guard "provided an alternative solution" that would transfer 40 percent of its Apaches into the active Army. This would allow the Guard to keep six attack battalions. They currently have eight.
Air Force Maj. Shannon Thomas, a spokeswoman for the Guard, reiterated the general's position, the Army Times reported.
"These are very difficult decisions and there will be more difficult ones yet to come," she said. "His focus now is to determine the impacts and how best to implement the decision."
According to the News & Observer:
Some military analysts have said that having a well-trained, combat-ready reserve force kept the country from having to re-institute a draft. At times during the post-9/11 conflicts, the guard has made up 50 percent of deployed troops.
"The National Guard right now is the best led and the best trained it has ever been," said Col. Brian Pierce, commander of the 449th Theater Aviation Brigade, which oversees the 1-130th. "In my opinion, there is no difference between the two organizations now.
"But if we don't look like them, and we don't have the same capability as the active-duty component, how are we going to function as that strategic depth and that combat reserve?"
It's not clear what would happen to the guard's Apache attack battalions if the Army's plan is carried out, which would only happen if it is incorporated into the federal budget. Some members might be transferred to other units, and a few might enter or return to the active-duty force.
The difference in flying a Black Hawk and Apache are night and day and that challenge of the Apache is greater, said Chief Warrant Officer Christopher Wilson.
"It's not even comparable," he told the News & Observer before boarding an Apache to perform an annual evaluation of a pilot. "This is one of the most sophisticated and advanced attack helicopters in the world. Flying this air frame is not like anything else."
Wilson, 45, has served in the Guard for 20 years. He is a veteran of the first Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq.
National Guard Association spokesman John Goheen warned that this will present problems down the road due to lack of experience.
"We're just going to squander that experience? These are some of the most experienced pilots and maintainers in the Army. Basically, we're going to say to them, 'Get out, or we're going to have to retrain you in something else.' Where is the savings there?"
"They don't want to be in a service that isn't in the fight," Goheen said. "Ours is a force full of people who want to be on their feet, with a rucksack on their back, doing things, getting their hands dirty. If the nation goes to war, they want to contribute. It's not a team you can put on the bench, and I think that's the fear."
According to Maj. Gen. Gus Hargett, who heads up the National Guard Association, he believes the entire issue is an insult to those that serve in the Guard.
"For me personally, I'm insulted by it. Most guardsmen that I talk to, they feel insulted," he said. "They feel like they are now being told after 12 years of war that somehow they are just not the equal to the active guys."
While some continue to push the idea that Black Hawks are best suited for dealing with natural disasters, something the Guard has been involved in many times, Gen. Hargett says the Guard already has plenty of Black Hawks.
"You know, we filled the skies of New Orleans (during Hurricane Katrina) with Black Hawk helicopters from the Guard," he says. "How many can you put in the sky at one time? How many do you need at one time?"
In the event of another war and the Army depleting the Guard's Apaches, it will lead to less reserves being available. "We will have no Apache helicopter pilots sitting on the bench to go in the game," Hargett said.
All 50 governors sent Barack Obama a letter opposing the removal of the Apaches from the Guard.
According to the letter, the governors called for reconsideration, understanding what it is to be the head of the executive branches of their respective states. "Two years ago we opposed efforts to dramatically cut personnel and equipment from the Air National Guard," the letter reads. "Congress subsequently chose not to impose the cuts and called for a National commission on the Structure of the Air Force. That commission recently concluded that the Guard is a cost-effective and invaluable force that should be a critical component of the total force structure. The commission's conclusions and the ongoing Army debate strengthen the case for a similar independent review of the Army's future force structure and active and reserve component mix."
First, we continue to spend more money at the federal level than we did in previous years. Second, this is rather curious coming from the Obama administration, as it takes helicopters that can be used by the states to defend themselves, and keeps reservists properly trained. Additionally, it simply replaces them with fewer "flying transport" helicopters, more useful for natural disaster recovery operations than fighting.
We've pulled out of Iraq. Our forces are lingering in Afghanistan. There should be no need to transfer the Apaches from the National Guard to the US Army. Lest you think this is not planned, consider how many millions of dollars are being spent on the Obamas vacationing every single month of the year. As a friend of mine has said, this doesn't smell right. There is something amiss here and I think we all have a pretty good idea what it is.
Meanwhile, Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) introduced a bill in January that is languishing in committee, which would block the transfer. Wilson issues a statement saying, here were times during Operation Iraqi Freedom when the Army National Guard represented 50 percent of the Army's combat power."
Wilson's bill has bi-partisan support from 41 Democrats and 111 Republicans. It also calls for a commission to study the proposed changes. Of course, Obama says that's not necessary. Why? It's because this is exactly what he wants. Make no mistake. This is as much an attack on the Second Amendment as any legislation that targets the guns you own.
UPDATE: It has just come to my attention that the treasonous Obama administration just pledged 10 Apache helicopters to Egypt on Tuesday. Where do you suppose those Apaches will come from? RT reports:
Delivery of the choppers is intended to aid in counterterrorism operations, the Pentagon said in a statement Wednesday, but comes only months after the US first suspended military aid to Egypt after the countrys interim government began harshly cracking down on dissidents and protesters.
"We believe these new helicopters will help the Egyptian government counter extremists who threaten US, Egyptian and Israeli security," Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby said.
According to the statement released by the US military on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel told his Egyptian counterpart, Col. Den. Sedki Soby, that US President Barack Obama has authorized the decision to deliver the helicopters.
Next, the Pentagon said, US Secretary of State John Kerry soon will certify to Congress that Egypt is sustaining the strategic relationship with the United States and is meeting its obligations under the 1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty. That deal between Americas top Middle East ally on Egypt has for decades allowed Cairo to stand as one of the largest recipients of US military and economic aid.
UPDATE 2: Rep. Joe Wilson's Communications Director Caroline Delleney provided Freedom Outpost with a statement from the Congressman:
"The Armys Aviation Restructuring initiative should be monitored closely. In addition to introducing legislation, Congressman Wilson will continue to work on this issue with House Armed Services Committee Chairman Buck McKeon while crafting this year's National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). He and many other Members remain deeply opposed to the Armys plan to remove all AH-64 Apache helicopters from the Army National Guard and will work closely with all interested parties to ensure these resources remain intact."
How many will go to DHS?
obamas civilian army needs airpower
The Tyrants FIRST visit and call were to the Moslem
Brotherhood (al Qaeda) in Egypt.
And to this day, he is enabled, assisted, and helped
by the EXEMPT US Congress -— against the American people
who elected them.
You're active duty at the hanger, and some trucks pull up in front and some guys get out and you've been told for months that the Apache's you've been assigned to maintain are today going to be taken away.
You're not completely stupid (are you?) and you know these are the last Apache's left .... (I'm no airman, so I have no idea what helicopters may be the replacement, backup .. if any .. )
WHAT are you thinking and what will you do ?
I'm thinking this is wrong and I'll do nothing because if I do anything to try to stop this, I'l at least be arrested and courts martialed ... and I'm too short for that.
Nope ... I guess I just let them go ... the politicians must know what they're doing ...
And when I get out of the service, I look for a job and try to stay out of trouble and a nagging thought is eternally clouding my thinking ... I was part of disarming America and I did nothing.
Ebb and Flow. The Reserve Component has always been the red headed stepchild in Army equipment fielding, training and re-organization. The Army Reserve more so than the National Guard. The AH-64 situation is no exception.
I used to think Odierno was one of the good guys.....
Why? Is the name “Apache” offense, too, just like “Redskins” supposedly is?
“How many will go to DHS?
obamas civilian army needs airpower”
Plus, the national guards are actually under the command of the governors who are mostly GOP.
If there is a revolution against the feds, you can’t have those apache’s under state command.
“Why? Is the name Apache offense, too, just like Redskins supposedly is?”
Maybe because on the battlefield the Apache is feared and respected, while the Redskins are laughed at ?
I think the skins have made the playoffs maybe three times in the last 20 years.
Hmmmm ... THERE’S a thought.
Odierno went to the dark side. He’s fully on board with females assigned to combat arms roles and integration into Ranger/Special Forces training and operational assignments.
Governors don’t want Apache helicopters. There’s no room for a news cameraman in them. Governors want a helicopter they can ride in and be filmed looking “concerned”.
Ok, that truth made me laugh.
Someone in the Obama Regime must have knowledge of the Battle of Athens.
“The trade would replace the Guard’s attack helicopters with 111 UH-60 Black Hawks, basically transport and utility helicopters.”
Are they planning on arming the Blackhawks (i.e. gunships), or are they planning on changing the role of those units entirely?
Either way, this looks like a crazy “trade.” The Blackhawk is a fine design, and the armed versions have been successful. Still, I can’t see them being the sort of apex predator of armored vehicles and other battlefield targets that the Apache is on the battlefield.
Just my armchair general opinion, of course.
Congress evidently rendered obsolete.
I think the Penna National Guard still has some Vietnam Era Cobra gunships. Still, Barky is nothing but a thief here and deserves to be impeached and removed from office, that is, if Congress ever gets it’s balls back.
Y'can't get a copy (I guess because it's a Hallmark Hall Of Fame TV movie), but it's readily available on youtube
When is the military going to do something to uphold their oath to protect this country “from enemies, both foreign and domestic”? What happens when we need those helicopters here in the USA?
“....an administration that loathes the military and wants to weaken America to the point that it cannot defend herself.”
That’s a pretty bold statement — is that not a description of high treason?
Shouldn’t our congress critters be made aware of it?
The AH-1 Cobra has long since left the Army inventory in all components. You still see them around, mainly as permanent static displays, private collector aircraft and some being used in firefighting roles. The USMC still operates the upgraded version -AH-1W/Z Super Cobra.
crossed my mind...LOL
This laughable statement illustrates the level of ignorance demonstrated by this article.
The Obama Administration is destroying our military and the Army is taking the biggest hits. This always happens when wars end, but Obama is taking it to new levels. The argument is how to allocate what little capability is going to be left. Since the Guard has become effectively another branch of service with their own 4-star advocate to go along with their allies in the Congress, you can expect these sorts of squabbles.
In the end, the argument is about jobs and prestige. Aviation is a jobs program in the Reserve Components. You need more full time maintenance personnel and aircrews must spend more time training and flying than their ground based counterparts. That means more full time jobs for Guardsmen. F-16's and Apache helicopters add prestige to a state's Guard establishment. Engineer battalions and cargo helicopters may be much more useful, but they aren't as sexy.
From the Army's perspective, they no longer have the money to replace their worn out reconnaissance helicopters, so the only viable option is to shift Apache's into that role. That what the Guard Apaches are going to be doing. It's not an elegant solution, but given the radical slicing of budget and force structure, it's about the only option available. Don't cry too much of a river for the Guard, their political agents will soften the blows.
Send them to Texas.
He can’t cut them up if he doesn’t have possession of them.
This was predicted in 1979 in letter by Valerie Jarretts father in law discussing an Arab purchased Presidency.
Those 10 helicopters promised to Egypt..why? We need to keep our helicopters and protect our finances in America from this financial terrorist regime.
I stand corrected. Still if this keeps up we might have to resort to using civilian helicopters (or the old MASH helicopters) with a National Guard guy inside holding a rifle and a box of dynamite to heave over to the enemy if this keeps up. B-P
All true. The whole reasoning, ostensibly, is to have that force structure built into the Reserve Component as an economy of force measure for call up and deployment during wartime and that has occured and continues to happen. It’s much more complicated than that. Lots of politics, jobs, special interests, contractors, ad nauseum....This situation isn’t about some conspiracy to take armed attack helicopters out of states’ control for some domestic nefarious purpose. It’s easy enough and cheaper to equip off the shelf airframes and UAS platforms currently in use by FLEAS, state and local police. They don’t need Apaches to spray lead for crowd control.This is about the Army attempting to retain an aging and diminishing aircraft fleet to react to global deployments in the midst of the tear down reign of Obama.
this is disarming state national guard units. so they can’t be used against him if something ever occurs.
Obama is a lowly, sissy-coward for using the lives of innocent children to ram through his Amnesty for Illegal Alien Invaders from Mexico Law.
As the truth comes out of Mexico, I predict that there will be many gory incidents of brutality as these innocent children traveled through the Drug Lord Gangs various territories.
At that time, Obama, Holder and Kerry should stand trial in the World Court for Human Trafficking of Children across International Borders.
Could you please elaborate or provide a source for that? Sounds interesting...and scary.
I think you are very right; the governors have a lot of power and can throw a huge monkey-wrench into the immigration-/amnesty-agenda works, to the point where it would force huge sections of the federal government to be recognized as participating in what is Constitutionally/definitionally Treason… it makes sense to disarm them.
(Nut-job Conspiracy-Theory Ping Worthy?)
We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that weve set. Weve got to have a civilian national security force thats just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. Barack Hussein Obama, 7/2/2008They dont call it a Civil Defense force, that would imply we need (or perhaps that we deserve) defense. The official name is National Civilian Community Corps.
I think of it as the NatCCC, or more simply, as the NatCs...
Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!
To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...
They’re fully aware of it.
But their allegiance is to their jobs and their lobbyists, not to the country.
I know a guy who once worked around these. Yes, the plan was to replace the National Guard’s Apaches with Blackhawks. I heard about this over a year ago.
I should say, I only knew about where he was working. I did not know this was a blanket for more than that particular unit.
” I’l at least be arrested and courts martialed ... and I’m too short for that.”
How tall do you have to be to get arrested and court martialed?
~~~The difference in flying a Black Hawk and Apache are night and day and that challenge of the Apache is greater, said Chief Warrant Officer Christopher Wilson.
“It’s not even comparable,” he told the News & Observer before boarding an Apache to perform an annual evaluation of a pilot. “This is one of the most sophisticated and advanced attack helicopters in the world. Flying this air frame is not like anything else.”~~~
That is correct. While I don’t have intimate knowledge, I have been in proximity to know more than a just a little about this situation.
Boehner to Obama: Send National Guard to the Southern Border
And you have it exactly right.
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