Skip to comments.Kiev Losing, Sanctions Flopped, Airliner Down, War Back On?
Posted on 07/19/2014 6:30:42 AM PDT by Renfield
July 18, 2014
(Tony Cartalucci - NEO) - With Kiev's forces being encircled and decimated in eastern Ukraine, western Ukrainians in Kiev protesting the war, and US sanctions receiving global ridicule as feckless - the downing of a Malaysian Boeing 777 airliner with over 280 on board in eastern Ukraine - allegedly shot down over a conflict zone - will undoubtedly be exploited by NATO to vilify Kiev's opponents, particularly fighters in the east and Russia who NATO accuses of "destabilizing eastern Ukraine."
Preceding the downing of Malaysian flight MH17, just hours beforehand, Ukraine claimed Russia had shot down one of its SU-25 ground attack aircraft. The BBC's article, "Ukraine conflict: Russia accused of shooting down jet," stated that:
A Ukrainian security spokesman has accused Russia's air force of shooting down one of its jets while it was on a mission over Ukrainian territory.
Andriy Lysenko, spokesman for the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council, said an Su-25 ground attack plane was downed on Wednesday evening.
Russia's defence ministry called the accusation "absurd", Russian state media reported.
Rebels in eastern Ukraine say they shot down two Su-25 jets on Wednesday.
Ukraine also alleges rockets were fired at its forces from Russian territory.
Anton Gerashenko, an adviser to Ukraine's Interior Minister, said on Facebook that the plane was flying at an altitude of 33,000 feet when it was hit by a missile fired from a Buk launcher, reported Interfax, a Ukranian news agency.The Buk system is maintained by both Russia and Ukraine. Russia would most likely not supply the sophisticated weapon system to fighters in Ukraine even if it were backing them militarily, because it would be nearly impossible to prevent its use or abuse from being traced directly back to Moscow. Ukrainian Buk systems, had the regime in Kiev lost control of one or more, should have been reported missing and international precautions taken to divert vulnerable aircraft around the conflict zone.
"To leap to conclusions could be very embarrassing and really inappropriate until we have more information," he told NBC's Andrea Mitchell. "But there have been, as you mentioned, previous incidents of shot down of Ukrainian aircraft. This was an airliner headed towards Russian air space. And it has the earmarks, and I'm not concluding, but it has the earmarks of a mistaken identification of an aircraft that they may have believed was Ukrainian.
"If that's true, this is a horrible tragedy event which was certainly unanticipated by anybody, no matter who they are," he said. "And there will be incredible repercussions if this is the case. Exactly what those will be will have to be determined by how we find out who was responsible."
McCain added, "If it is a result of either separatists or Russian actions mistakingly believing that this was a Ukrainian warplane, I think there's going to be hell to pay and there should be."McCain never mentioned what should or could happen if it was the regime he helped put into power that was responsible for downing the airliner.
Sir Tony Brenton, a former UK ambassador to Russia, told BBC News it would not be a huge surprise if suspicion initially fell on the rebels.
"That would be very damaging both for them and for their Russian supporters," he said.
"The Russians have undoubtedly been supplying them with weapons, almost certainly with anti-aircraft weapons, so Russia would very likely be implicated and that would raise the volume of international criticism of Russia."Only the West and their proxies in Kiev would stand to benefit from this - and commentators like Tony Brenton and the BBC intentionally prey on the ignorance of their audience in hopes that they don't know the difference between the Igla systems separatists most likely have, and the Buk system they most likely don't have or are unable to operate.
I have an app called “Flightradar24” that shows real time graphics of airline air traffic over any airspace, including the Ukraine. It runs on an iPad.
There is no reason for this “mistake”.
Considering the language and characterizations, this article is written from the alternate reality of Moscow. Case in point, NATO spotted Buk systems on the border and training going on in their use two weeks ago. They publickly confirmed Russkie officers were training the so calles rebels. The system was then seen traveling to the shooting area and recorded multiple times, even by the separatists themselves who bragged about it and later took credit for downing the airline. The same system was then recorded fleeing back to Russia.
But then this idiot on the blog wants to have it both ways. They don’t have it, but if they did it wasn’t their fault.
Do you think we are all that stupid here, Renfield???
He is a propagandist.
Thanks, first article that makes sense. I realize that our government, particularly the president, has decided that Putin is the bad guy, and that we all need to follow lock-step, but I make MY OWN evaluations, on a case-by-case basis.
In this case, the SA-11 system has been around since 1979, so they were DEFINITELY deployed in Ukraine in the 1980s and almost certainly kept by Ukraine after the break-up of the Soviet Union in 1991. The only weapons given back to Moscow back then were nukes.
So the weapons used almost certainly were Ukrainian, the only question is that did the rebels have some of them when they busted off from the government, or did the Ukrainian government shoot the plane down.
If I had to guess, probably the rebels...but my bigger question then becomes WHY THE HELL WERE PASSENGER PLANES FLYING OVERHEAD, in a combat zone where aircraft were being shot down?
Yes, if you are a 25 year old woman, you are certainly entitled to walk alone, through LaHood, for several miles at 2 AM to get to downtown Baltimore. But if you get attacked, YES, it is the attacker to blame...but don’t be surprised if people ask you why you were out there and saying (behind your back) that it was not a very smart move.
My reading on the SA-11 is that it would need an early warning radar unit with it. It is a radar-guided missile and the target radar would have a range of about 20 miles. That means they have an engagement area of about 40 miles if the airplanes flies right over the top of the launcher. Smaller engagement are the further the airplane is away from the launcher. The plane was probably going around 600mph. That is 10 miles a minute. That puts the plane in the engagement area for four minutes if it is flying right over the top of the launcher. My reading says that it takes a crew five minutes to prepare to fire. If the plane is in and out of the engagement area in four minutes, then it’s unlikely a crew could get off a shot without having an early warning radar.
That leads me to think it was Ukraine or Russia.
The author of the article is correct that Ukraine is probably the only one to have a somewhat plausible reason to intentionally shoot down a foreign airliner. But, the British press has been reporting that there was a Ukrainian military transport aircraft in the area.
I think the most logical explanation is that the pro-Russian rebels accidentally shot this airliner down thinking it was a Ukrainian military transport. It was either a lucky shot, or the Russians warned them. I don’t believe in luck.
Enhanced BUK group is three vehicles including loader and command and controls but launcher is pretty capable to work on it’s own as it has a built-in radar.
Five minutes readiness is not a time needed to engage aircraft upon detection. It is actually a time needed to deploy system upon arrival to the scene.
BUK is basically a regimental point-defense weapon, made to protect ground forces from missiles and light fighter-bombers in an area of their deployment. It’s primary idea to restrict airspace over ground troops completely and for that reason target recognition is not the strong point.
In the grand tradition of all fascist boot lickers: yes, he really believe we are that stupid.
Ukrainian army has been "decimated" since March, yet keep pushing the separatists back. Took back Mariupol, and Sloviansk/Kromatorsk 2 weeks ago. Nearing Luhansk. Although, Ukrainians are now taking heavier losses as Russians are shooting Grad missiles from across the border.
western Ukrainians protesting against the war, are mothers and wives protesting not the war, but for the soldiers to be rotated out of the combat zone, some of the soldiers have been in there for 2-3 months
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