Posted on 08/05/2014 9:17:01 AM PDT by marktwain
Gun v. knife defenses are fairly common, but usually the person with the knife realizes that they are outclassed by someone with a gun, and runs away. To have three such cases where the person with the knife is shot, in one day, is uncommon. It may mean that more self defense cases are being covered; it may simply be a statistical fluke.
The most dangerous situation for a defender facing someone with a knife, is to not know that their opponent is armed until they are under assault. The first case involves alleged defense of another in Phoenix, Arizona, From greenfieldreporter.com:
A 29-year-old woman who was also at the home told investigators she and the deceased victim went to the house and an argument led to the 27-year-old allegedly stabbing the 53-year-old. A 20-year-old man who lives in the home then shot the stabbing suspect, telling police he acted in defense of the other man.The second case involves potential multiple attackers, one of which pulled out a knife in Wellington, Fl. From wptv.com:
The homeowner came out and got into a verbal dispute with them.The third case happened in New Haven, CT. It has only been reported that the shooter says that the knifeman tried to attack him. The difference in ages is significant. From wtnh.com:
One of the men threatened him with a knife.
The homeowner pulled out his gun and shot that individual, according to PBSO.
Police say 23-year-old Leroy Brown was shot in the side of the head by 71-year-old Anthony Anamasi. Police are still working to gather information regarding what may have lead to the gunfire, but authorities add the man who made the 911 call said he had shot man who had tried to attack him with a knife.Assume that everything that you say on a 911 line will be recorded. Many people, in the emotion aftermath of a shooting, say things that are not as carefully constructed as they need to be to stand up to a prosecutorial assault. Extreme care is required.
I wouldn't even know how to practice knife-fighting. How does one train for that?
If possible, use this to your advantage. Call 911 and put the phone down while warning your attacker and indicating your retreat if applicable.
I have no idea how to knife fight.
Though, I’ve hoped that my fencing skills would help: Crouch into a defensible fencing stance, and with lightning speed, thrust blade-up under the ribcage for the heart. Parry as necessary.
Thoughts?
Skilled or not, the knife has a significant advantage over the gun at close range.
Can you draw and fire in less time than it takes an attacker to close a 7’ gap?
People who are the age of the guy in the New Haven assault should have a lower standard to meet then the young punk who allegedly attacked him.
Elderly people are more fragile and can suffer lethal injuries just by being knocked down.broken hips,skull fractures.Things that a young person would not be affected by.
The basics are grip, stance, blocking and striking. The first three are very similar to any basic martial art. Striking with a knife needs to focus on the fundamentals - stabbing and slashing.
Stabbing needs to train to turn the blade horizontally so to allow he blade to slip between the ribs and not get stuck. Hitting the vital areas is important - heart, liver, lower lungs, throat. Never stab at the head. It is possible to bleed out before the ambulance arrives so stopping bleeding is very important post fight.
Slashing is designed to leave long gashes and to sever veins , arteries and tendons. Target areas include wrist, inside elbow, underarm, neck, lower abdomen, inside upper thigh, and rarely back of knee.
All attacks can be trained on a dummy with a practice knife. Do not practice any of the fancy knife tossing and switching hands or grips. Basic pokey pokey slash slash will do you a lot more good in a real fight.
Understand that the WILL BE lots of blood. If they have a knife, you are also HIGHLY likely to get hurt as well. So it is also very important to know how to administer first aid to yourself and others if needed.
It helps but you have two muscle memories to overcome from fencing. The first is the turning of the knife. If the blade is thrust directly at the rib cage, there is a high probability that the knife will get stuck between the ribs. One has to train to turn the knife sideways. The second is that fencing is often thrust, retreat. Knife fighting is stab, stab, stab, (or slash slash slash) retreat.
Those trained in Saber tend to be better at the slash while Foil tends to be best at the stab. Epee tends to need the most training to overcome a host of differences.
Thanks. I’ve been wondering how to adjust. That’ll do in a pinch.
The principle use of a knife by an unskilled knife fighter is to intimidate their opponent. Thus they draw and display the knife from too far away. This is a very rookie mistake. Trained knife fighters will wait until they have closed the distance to at least their lunge distance before they will display the knife.
One other key indicator of the individual being trained is the way that they point the knife. If they point the knife with the blade oriented up and down, they are most likely untrained. Also, a trained knife fighter keeps the knife close to the body ready to strike, not extended out to the front.
Big magic markers. The marks are the “cuts.” Obviously, use clothing you don’t mind getting stained.
It’s the same psychological problem as with a gun, in that the tendency is to assume that a weapon puts you in control and dominance. Such control and dominance is entirely up to the opponent, and if they resist *in any way*, the “degree of difficulty” skyrockets.
It is not unheard of for the police to arrive at a scene only to find that both gunmen are dead, often with several holes in each.
Likewise, the advice after a knife fight that the number one priority is first aid, is very true. It is usually not organ damage that kills, but blood loss. And it is exceedingly hard to close a cross capillary slash, even on the table.
For beginners and stab training, we just used washable colored markers and white tee shirts. It is cheep and gets the point across.
We train in multiples of 10.
10 times slow to demonstrate the technique
100 times medium to feel the motion and correct
1000 times to train the muscle memory
For advanced training, we use aluminum training knives from Steve Rollert (www.doveknives.com) and “ink” the blade edge as well. Steve is a professional knife maker, does custom orders, is a martial artist as well and a licensed EMT. Good all round guy. His commercial web page is http://www.keenedgeknives.com/KE-Practice.html if you are interested in something.
With your plan, you might get in a shot but then they are going to bowl you over and repeatedly stab you.
So you need to shoot them before they rush or pass the rush and then shoot them.
Most uses of knives are more like surprise attacks or using a knife on someone who is unarmed.
Probably the first rule of effective uses of a knife is to keep it hidden. If you are up against someone with superior weaponry, strength or size, if deadly force is justified, do not give a hint that you have the knife until you employ it, rapidly, ferociously and repeatedly.
I gave my daughter a knife, and said if she ever had to use it, use it fast and hard against effective targets to disable your attacker; once you get free, flee so that they cannot grab you.
There are numerous books and videos on knife fighting. My favorite is “Knives, Knife Fighting, & Related Hassles How to Survive a Real Knife Fight” by Marc “Animal” MacYoung
If you decide to show the knife, (deterrence is more likely than any other reason) learn one or more fighting stances. Keep the knife back near your body so that it cannot be easily kicked or knocked away. The other hand should be used to protect the knife hand.
At least you want to *look* like you know what you are doing.
Well, gun v. knife, I’ll just let fly with up to 17 rounds fast in their direction, aimed if possible. Springfield XD 9, recently lost in a tragic canoeing accident.
I’m primarily talking about a knife fight. Probably knife (me) v. unarmed doofus. My goal would be to put the hurt on them so bad before they got to my center of mass that when they actually arrive at my center of mass, they’re probably well on the way to dead. That may be unrealistic. But fencing is the only skill I have in the vicinity of a knife fight.
So, as another poster noted, turn the knife horizontally, and stab severally. That’ll have to do, unless someone has a quick primer on knife fighting with which I can improve.
I’ve heard femoral arteries (inside thighs) are a good target.
Marc “Animal” MacYoung is a real deal knife instructor who learned his trade the hard way.
Slashes are very effective. Inside wrists, elbows, armpits, behind the knee, Achilles tendon. Disable your opponent and you can walk away faster than he can hobble after you.
A Sargent Major recommended slashes to the face, because the blood would be dramatic, for psychological effect.
A good friend used slashes to the muzzle as a defense to dog attacks in Russia. He said they worked well.
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