Posted on 09/23/2020 3:18:11 PM PDT by Falcon4.0
#36. Good advice, otherwise “You’ll shoot your eye out, kid”.
I’d take the pistol to a gun shop and have it checked by a knowledgeable gunsmith. Its possible that the slide may have had a material weakness in the metal causing it to crack.Very possible during an over pressure load fireing.
It could possibly be welded but I wouldn’t bank my check on that or bet my life on it either.
Might be better to get a brand new slide. Safer too.
“...I would think a competent weld would cost as much as a new slide...” [chuckles, post 35]
Welding probably won’t restore the slide to original strength nor dimensions. It might even reduce remaining strength.
Many gun parts are first shaped from specialized steel stock, and only then receive tempering (”heat treatment”), chemical treatment, and specialized surface treatments. Welding negates these treatments.
Colt’s was a pioneer in these aspects of manufacture, fabricating springs and subsections of internal parts with specialized function to perform as springs or pivots or in yet other ways. They were doing it on a routine production basis in the 1890s.
If you want to keep your hand, you should not put a round through that magnificent piece until you get is checked over by a good gunsmith.
They’re tough and reliable battle veterans, but a break in the slide is not good.
Everything you mentioned is true for today's modern weapons, but a 1911 Colt used in war was cheap and made with common metals.
My point was any skilled gunsmith could make the weld, but it most likely would cost as much to weld it and re-mill it to fit as to buy a new one (most likely better steel and fit).
If the guy was connected to the gun sentimentally and wanted to keep the gun in firing condition, I would just buy a new slide. A cheap Springfield Armory .45 ( before the insane price hikes recently) was $400-$600 and a nicer one might be $1000 in a higher grade name. Look at Glocks or Sig, if you have the money. A broke down worn 1911 from WWII with a crack in it might sell for $150-250. Fixing the crack and re-fitting it with a new blueing to cover the welding repair might cost $300-$400 and you end up with a $300- $400 gun.
My advice is still to buy a new slide or get another new gun. Unless you can prove Patton owned it, there was a time when you could buy these buy the 5 gallon bucket full. An old worn .45 is just not worth that much unless you are a collector. If it's cracked, why bother? If you want to fire it, just fix it with a new slide. There is a possibility of buying a used slide from another junker, but I repeat, why bother?
Another option might be to throw it in a drawer until the next gun show and look for a >$50 used slide.
For a 1911 that was issued and carried during WWII I would pay $250 in a heartbeat.
Depending on age and heritage, it may still have collector’s value. I have a 1911 manufactured in the Springfield Armory in 1914 - still shoots great but I could probably get $8 - $10 grand for it even if it wasn’t safe to put a lot of rounds through.
1911 Slide 45acp 70 Series Matte Steel Complete Internals & Sights Regent
The price seems reasonable too.
Give it to your drunkard brother in law with a box of hot reloads.
“...a .45 auto is not so powerful as to need perfection to operate successfully...a 1911 Colt used in war was cheap and made with common metals...any skilled gunsmith could make the weld...” [chuckles, post 46]
Your comments misstate the facts of metallurgy and gun manufacture pertaining to the early 20th century.
To begin with the final phrase I quoted, a skilled gunsmith could make such a weld, but the strength of the slide would still be compromised: most steel alloys then in use could be forged, machined, and tempered once only. Raising temperatures as high as welding would destroy the qualities desired by the manufacturer. Peruse the repair and modification manuals by Jerry Kuhnhausen: he published reference works on a number of popular firearms some 25 years ago, including one on Colt’s Government Model autoloader, better known by its military nomenclature, M1911.
Colt’s Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company was the foremost gunmaker in the world for the first half of the 20th century. At no time did they use “common metals” in manufacturing arms. Their raw materials were the best, and the quality of their design and workmanship was just as high. Smith & Wesson, Remington, and Winchester equaled them in every respect.
Wartime exigencies meant nothing to these gunmakers; arms made to fill US military contracts gave up nothing when it came to materials and manufacture. Corner-cutting of that sort was simply not possible anyway, because details were spelled out in the contract, production was overseen by US Ordnance officials, delivered items were carefully inspected, and entire lots could be rejected if some samples failed to pass.
Even under the most serious wartime situations, Ordnance officials held manufacturers to the highest standard: please recall that one of the prime contractors for M1 Carbines failed to meet quality standards during World War Two; War Dept leadership terminated the contract and turned over all output and parts inventory to one of the other contractors.
Colt’s Government Model doesn’t need “perfection” to work right, but it does need parts of sufficient strength and durability to furnish adequate service life, properly fitted. Real expertise comes into play here. No one should expect a new slide to to be a drop-in fit.
My advice is still to buy a slide and forget the welding, but that's mainly due to cost not safety.
I understand the willingness to rebuild some junk to make a functioning weapon because I'm one of those, but you always have to keep the money in mind. The poster that posted the ebay link is the way I would go trying to rebuild a 1911 with a cracked slide. You get a slide plus other parts that are probably worn.
“You keep speaking like a .45 needs perfection to work reliably... today’s weapons are much stronger...To even discuss welding on a .44 magnum is ridiculous, but a .45 is absolutely doable...” [chuckles, post 52]
Your analysis is incomplete here, and I suspect it’s steering you off track. I will never put the word “perfection” in any sentence describing any Colt’s product; 13 years performing gun repairs for a small family-owned dealership taught me that the word has no meaning if one is attempting to conduct a rational discussion of firearms suitability, utility, or any other quantifiable attribute. The firm specialized in parts for obsolete, out-of-production guns: I completed hundreds of screws and fabricated thousands of springs.
Yield limit - what I think you mean by “strength” - is merely one of several characteristics that various parts of a gun must possess if it is going to function safely and reliably for any useful interval. It’s a rule of thumb that about half a dozen different alloys of steel, tempered or surface-treated in half a dozen different ways, to fabricate a workable gun.
“Strength” itself is an oversimplification. A part can be very “strong” in terms of the amount of force required to deform or break it, but it can become brittle. There is then little difference between yield limit and fracture point. Everything is fine until a force exceeding yield limit is applied; if it goes past fracture point the part breaks or shatters.
Toughness - resistance to deformation upon sudden loading, or static force level - is different. Parts must be tempered differently.
Springiness - acceptance of load, linear deformation, and return to original dimensions on removal of load - requires different alloying and tempering.
Hardness - resistance to abrasion of a part under continued movement in contact with other parts is essential for pins, pin holes, hammer/trigger/sear engagement surfaces. Yet further alloying and tempering.
Slides of Colt’s Government Model must receive spot tempering in at least four different locations, in different ways, to produce a functioning slide. In the interest of safety, I must warn all forum members that welding a slide by untrained personnel outside of the most rigidly controlled conditions poses serious safety risks.
While it is true that average working pressures for 45 ACP are low compared to something like 44 Magnum, they cannot be taken lightly. Experiencing a case or breeching failure inches from one’s face will still be a painful, disfiguring experience. A chief reason why obsolete Webley revolvers that have been cut down from 455 to 45 ACP are no longer recommended for firing.
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