Posted on 02/17/2021 6:58:17 PM PST by Charles Henrickson
LOL, your noise is so predictable I don’t even waste time reading your false interpretations. But of course you post these lengthy effluent in hopes of doing your father’s business, confuse and divert from The Word of God Truth. That’s your cue to spittle out a diatribe against Darby and the pre-trib Rapture, preterist. Run along and feed yourself a full dose of The City of God, Augustine wants you to endorse kingdom now deceit in his absence.
MHG - your pre-tribulation rapture interpretation is from the 19th century.
Quite clearly your interpretation is a false one that the majority of Christians rejected and reject today.
Let’s simplify it for you — the pre-trib rapture denies Christ’s very words and twists Paul’s writings.
when Christ returns to the earth’s atmosphere, He will have returned to earth, not up in the air.
Atta boy, stay consistently wrong, as has been shown to you from as far back as Jesus in John 14.
All Christian’s before Darby rejected any concept of a pre tribulation rapture.
The pre tribulation rapture is a 19th century fantasy.
John 14:19 “Because I live, you also will live” shows how wrong your rapture theory that Jesus is trapped in heaven is.
John 15:18 also explicitly rejects a pre tribulation rapture.
John 16:2” They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God” shows that this is still in the 1st century when Christianity remained just a Jewish sect.
John 16:16:”Jesus went on to say, “In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.””
Makes it abundantly clear that he didn’t mean 2000 years later
THAT is a lie and it only takes one of more than thirty references to prove you're lying. The sermon known as the Pseudo-Ephrain, daterd to between 400 and 600 AD, speaks of the pre-tribulation departure of the Body of Christ. You are an exposed liar now. You are showing yourself to be a son of perdition, preterist.
Dude, I’ve read those arguments given by Darbyist and they don’t even look up the points. Have you?
Here, let me repeat the arguments of the Darbyists
Firstly, it’s called pseudo as we’re pretty sure it wasn’t written by Ephraim. The word “Pseudo” (Greek for false) is a prefix attached by scholars to the name of a famous historical person or book of the Bible when one writes using that name. Pseudo-Ephraem claims that his sermon was written by Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73), Rather it dates to the 8th century. However that is irrelevant to the point we are discussing.
Secondly, what does it say?
For all the saints and the elect of God are gathered and joined to the Lord before the tribulation that is to come, lest at any time they experience the confusion that will overwhelm the whole world because of our sins. It would be easy to read into these texts a pre-tribulation rapture, if that is what someone wants them to say. However, to do so is to succumb to confirmation bias (a term that is used for the inclination of people to favor data that meets their bias regardless whether it is even true). This is made apparent when the rest of the text is examined, which is usually ignored or neglected by most pre-tribulation rapture proponents. Because of this tendency toward confirmation bias, it is crucial to now clarify further what the passages do and do not say.
The most important thing to notice in these passages is that the focus of deliverance is not on the tribulation itself. Christians are instead being rescued from the “confusion” that comes with that tribulation. Also, though an additional aspect of these passages is that those delivered from that confusion are being gathered to the Lord in some sense, it does not say that this is a physical gathering that requires movement nor is that even implied. There is no mention of leaving anywhere or going to any specific place. It does not say we are being taken from the world or going to heaven. It simply emphasizes being gathered together to the Lord to be rescued from the confusion in a contrast to those who are being deceived and being gathered together to the Antichrist as explained below: Then that worthless and abominable dragon shall appear, he, whom Moses named in Deuteronomy, saying: Dan is a young lion, reclining and leaping from Basan. ... “Basan” certainly is interpreted “confusion.” He shall rise up from the confusion of his iniquity. The one who gathers together to himself a partridge the children of confusion, also shall call them, whom he has not brought forth, just as Jeremiah the prophet says. Also in the last day they shall relinquish him just as confused. (Section 5)
I would strongly urge you to read the whole of Pseudo ephraim that you tossed about.
The actual meaning of this passage is that the elect will not be deceived by the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon unbelievers.
You will, upon reading, notice it does not say anything about being raptured or going to heaven, and does not mention a physical place, but simply says “gathered together.” Also, notice that the word “confusion” is the main emphasis on what they are being rescued from
AND there is nothing in the original Greek that can be translated as “taken.”
When read in its context, the real teaching of this document is quite apparent. Even if we accept the translations of the Latin by Rhoades, there is no support for a pre-tribulation rapture without forcefully trying to stuff it into the text.
The writer of the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem is insisting that those who do not place their trust in Jesus Christ before the coming of the Antichrist will be deceived along with the rest of the world. The writer explains further, when he says: When therefore the end of the world comes ... neither is anyone able to be recovered in that time, who has not been made completely aware of the coming danger, but all people, who have been constricted by fear, are consumed because of the overhanging evils. (Section 3, Rhoades) The writer insists that all who have not been made completely aware of the coming danger will be lost forever with no possibility of coming to Christ. And if Christians will be gone, what does he mean by “who have not been made completely aware of the coming danger”? The implication is that those who have been made aware will escape it because of that awareness.
The teaching in this medieval document is that we need to be following Christ if we want to be delivered from the confusion and deception coming upon the world during the great tribulation.
There is no promise of a rapture or being taken up to heaven.
There is no mention of two advents.
The history of the term 'apostasia' in the Geek was used prior to the Ministry of Jesus as interpreted 'depart'. In the letter from Paul (2 Thess 2:3) the term is changed by the PC scholars to mean a departure from the faith.
Then after the time of Paul the term is again used to mean simply depart. In Paul's letter he puts a definite article in front of 'apostasia', making it a specific 'departure'.
There are exactly two places where 'apostasia' is used in the New Testament: 2 Thess 2:3 and Acts 21:21. BUT there are fifteen places where the verb form (aphistomei) is used and in twelve of those uses the verb refers to a physical departure. A careful study of the context in 2nd Thess 2 informs us that 'The Apostasia' is referring to a departure which allows the man of sin to be revealed. The removal from obstructing the man of sin is the departure of the Abidinig Holy Spirit IN the born again spirits of the Body of Christ Believers. During the Church Age the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and specifically also abiding IN the born again spirit of the Body of Believers.
The theme Paul introduces for 2 Thess 2 is Jesus gathering us to Himself. This is a physical event ONLY God can do. If the apostasia referred to a departure from the faith, that is a thing believers do, not in keeping with the physical event to which Paul addresses 2 Thess 2 and to which Paul refers in the passages following 2 thess 2 with his reference to the restrainer taken out of the way (a physical event) so the man of sin can be revealed. The theme of 2 Thess 2 is a physical event which Paul taught the Thessalonians with his presence and the first letter, specifically 1`Thess 4L13-18.
The origin of 'apostasia' is a compounding of 'apos' apart from and 'histemi' to stand, yielding to stand apart from/ when we are transformed int he twinking of an eye, we shall be standing apart from the 4D coordinate system we now sense ... we will be just as invisible to the earthdwellers as Jesus was invisible to the Upper Room prior to entering it from that 'other' coordinate system.
The thing is - this is shortsighted — look at the Christians in Pakistan, in northern Nigeria etc. - burnt, raped, tortured etc. for Christ. They are already living through horrific tribulations.
Your church, the CATHOLIC CHURCH, burnt, raped, tortured, and murdered millions upon millions of people over a 1260 year reign of terror. So, give us all a break.
Excellent, MHG! I just sent you an email on “apostasia,” but I see by this post that you beat me to it by a mile. Very, very enlightening.
Billions upon billions?
Your alohahaha.net tinfoil hat is too tight for you.
Ellen g white your proohetess who preached the Seventh day Adventist beliefs that
1. Some races are descendents of humans mating with animals.
2. Jesus is the angel Michael.
3. Satan takes the sins of the world
4. There us no hell.
Really played a number on you guys. As you said, you got diarrhoea when you came out of the closet, right?
Have you even read the sermon of Pseudo Ephraim? Yes or no ?
Go argue with Phuilswolrd some more to get your ego needs. But fair warning, he will not be duped by your selective postings aimed at manipulating and deception.
Cronos is one of the most disgusting people I have ever had the displeasure of conversing with. He is a born liar and whenever he’s pushed into a corner and critically challenged he just starts to lie and mock. That’s all he has. His arguments are hollow and he knows it. When he’s confronted with truth he very simply lies and deflects criticism and distain. What a horrible Christian. Actually, I wouldn’t even call him a Christian. Possibly in name only. He is a natural born Jesuit liar.
You are correct that I will not be duped by that human trash. I no longer have any respect for him. He is simply not able to tell the truth and have an honest conversation. I realize I was wrong in assuming he had some redeeming qualities. I won’t make that mistake again.
No demand. A simple question.
You push Pseudo ephraim as supporting your view.
If you actually read the text you would see that it does not.
So, I asked you a simple question: have you read Pseudo ephraim yourself?
Yes or no?
You wrote
“The sermon known as the Pseudo-Ephrain, daterd to between 400 and 600 AD, speaks of the pre-tribulation departure of the Body of Christ.”
Whereas if you had actually read tye test you would see that the teaching in this medieval document is that we need to be following Christ if we want to be delivered from the confusion and deception coming upon the world during the great tribulation.
There is no promise of a rapture or being taken up to heaven.
There is no mention of two advents.
Have you even read the document? Yes or no?
2 these 2 emphatically does NOT say people will be removed BEFORE tribulation.
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