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Ice Age Ancestry May Keep Body Warmer and Healthier
NY Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | NICHOLAS WADE

Posted on 01/08/2004 9:00:45 PM PST by neverdem

A team of California geneticists has found that many of the world's peoples are genetically adapted to the cold because their ancestors lived in northern climates during the Ice Age. The genetic change affects basic body metabolism and may influence susceptibility to disease and to the risks of the calorie-laden modern diet.

The finding also breaks ground in showing that the human population has continued to adapt to forces of natural selection since the dispersal from its ancestral homeland in Africa some 50,000 years ago.

The genetic adaptation to cold is still carried by many Northern Europeans, East Asians and American Indians, most of whose ancestors once lived in Siberia. But it is absent from peoples native to Africa, a difference that the California team, led by Dr. Douglas C. Wallace of the University of California, Irvine, suggest could contribute to the greater burden of certain diseases in the African-American population.

Other experts praised the findings about adaptation to cold but said the role of mitochondria, relics of captured bacteria that serve as the batteries of living cells, in these diseases was less certain.

The genetic change affects the mitochondria, which break down glucose and convert it into the chemical energy that drives the muscles and other body processes. But the mitochondria will generate heat as well, and less chemical energy, if certain mutations occur in their DNA that make the process less efficient. Just such a change would have been very helpful to early humans trying to survive in cold climates.

Dr. Wallace and his colleagues have now decoded the full mitochondrial DNA from more than 1,000 people around the world and found signs of natural selection. By analyzing the changes in the DNA, they have been able to distinguish positive mutations, those selected because they are good or adaptive, from negative or harmful mutations. In today's issue of the journal Science, they report that several lineages of mitochondrial DNA show signs of positive selection.

These lineages are not found at all in Africans but occur in 14 percent of people in temperate zones and in 75 percent of those inhabiting Arctic zones. Dr. Wallace and his colleagues say this correlation is evidence that the lineages were positively selected because they help the body generate more heat.

Until now, most genetic change in the human population since it left Africa has been thought to be either random or just the elimination of harmful mutations. The evidence of the new analysis is that positive or adaptive selection "played an increasingly important role as people migrated out of Africa into temperate and Arctic Eurasia," the California team writes.

One implication is that everyone is adapted to a particular climate zone, and that moving to different zones may cause certain stresses. Mitochondria of the lineages found in Africa, Dr. Wallace suggests, may contribute the extra burden of certain diseases found among African-Americans, like diabetes and prostate cancer.

His reasoning is that African lineage mitochondria have never had to develop a mechanism for generating extra heat. So when an African-American and a European-American eat the same high calorie diet, the European's mitochondria burn some calories off as heat but the more efficient African mitochondria are liable to generate more fat deposition and oxidative damage, two results that could underlie the higher disease rates, Dr. Wallace said.

Separately, some of the European mitochondrial lineages appear to protect against Alzheimer's and Parkinson diseases and to be associated with greater longevity.

"Therefore," the California team writes, "to understand individual predisposition to modern diseases, we must also understand our genetic past, the goal of the new discipline of evolutionary medicine."

While many scientists study the genes of the human cell's nucleus, Dr. Wallace has focused on the tiny mitochondrial genome for 33 years. Along with the late Dr. Allan Wilson, he has pioneered the tracing of the 20 or so mitochondrial lineages found in the human population, all of which link back to a single individual known as the mitochondrial Eve.

Several other experts said that Dr. Wallace's ideas were promising but that the role of mitochondria in degenerative diseases had yet to be established. "It's a very attractive idea and may well turn out to be right, although the biochemical evidence of uncoupling differences between the mitochondrial lineages has yet to be nailed down," said Dr. Lawrence Grossman, a mitochondria expert at Wayne State University.

Dr. Mark Seielstad, a population geneticist at the Genome Institute of Singapore, said the positive selection was likely to have been a "major architect" in shaping mitochondria and that Dr. Wallace's work should throw open discussion of the subject.

Two experts on mitochondrial disease, Dr. Michael Brown of the Mercer University School of Medicine in Macon, Ga., and Dr. Gino Cortopassi of the University of California, Davis, said Dr. Wallace's ideas about African mitochondria made sense but had yet to reach practical significance. "We've not yet got to the stage of being able to give advice to African Americans," Dr. Brown said.

Dr. Wallace says that climatic selection may have operated on the human population from the moment it moved north of the African tropics. Most such pioneers died but two lineages, known as M and N, arose in northeast Africa some 65,000 years ago and might have been adapted to temperate climates. Almost everyone outside of sub-Saharan Africa has mitochondria descended from the M and N lineages.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: archaeology; climatechange; dna; environment; evolution; genetics; ggg; godsgravesglyphs; health; history; mtdna; science
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Two experts on mitochondrial disease, Dr. Michael Brown of the Mercer University School of Medicine in Macon, Ga., and Dr. Gino Cortopassi of the University of California, Davis, said Dr. Wallace's ideas about African mitochondria made sense but had yet to reach practical significance. "We've not yet got to the stage of being able to give advice to African Americans," Dr. Brown said.

But we might be near the point where differences in medical outcomes could be explained by something other than racism in society in general and the medical establishment in particular. BTW, more prostate cancer and less osteoporosis is also correlated with higher testosterone levels in Africans as opposed to Caucasians.

1 posted on 01/08/2004 9:00:45 PM PST by neverdem
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To: All
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Thanks for donating to Free Republic!

Move your locale up the leaderboard!

2 posted on 01/08/2004 9:02:07 PM PST by Support Free Republic (If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!)
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To: neverdem
Hmmm.. I suspect my direct ancestors spent all their time huddling in the cave by the fire.. ;^)
3 posted on 01/08/2004 9:03:30 PM PST by AntiGuv (When the countdown hits zero, something's gonna happen..)
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To: AntiGuv


"I'm deeply saddened by Breaking News Abuse."
4 posted on 01/08/2004 9:04:08 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (You know how those liberals are. Two's Company but three is a fundraiser.)
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To: neverdem
Hey neverdem, remember when coach Dusty Baker made his comment about Blacks being more suited to the heat? He caught hell for that.
5 posted on 01/08/2004 9:05:06 PM PST by Visalia
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To: blam
Hey, interesting....

I'm Danish/Scottish/Magyar... I just love the cold. My house is right now at 60 deg f and I'm wearing shorts and a sleeveless shirt...

6 posted on 01/08/2004 9:09:27 PM PST by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: ConservativeMan55
How is this story about braking news abuse? It certainly doesn't deserve extended news.

I searched the story with FR search command. It has never been reported in general newspapers before this copy of the Times. This story about genetic differences in mitochondrial DNA causing diseases and differences in morbidity and mortality between people with different anccestries could undercut the charges of racism in the results of different medical care.
7 posted on 01/08/2004 9:35:27 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Its not breaking news, LOL!
8 posted on 01/08/2004 9:46:16 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (You know how those liberals are. Two's Company but three is a fundraiser.)
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To: ConservativeMan55
Where did you see it before?
9 posted on 01/08/2004 9:50:24 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
"results of different medical care." should have been "results of different medical outcomes in morbidity and mortality."

10 posted on 01/08/2004 9:54:23 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
I took this thread out of breaking news. ConservativeMan55 had nothing to do with it.
AM
11 posted on 01/08/2004 9:55:20 PM PST by Admin Moderator
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To: neverdem; blam
So you want the list pinged for this one?
12 posted on 01/08/2004 10:00:31 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: neverdem
PANGENES!
It's all about the Pangenes. Duh.
13 posted on 01/08/2004 10:03:00 PM PST by raynearhood
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To: Admin Moderator
LOL...that made me chuckle.
14 posted on 01/08/2004 10:05:48 PM PST by ConservativeMan55 (You know how those liberals are. Two's Company but three is a fundraiser.)
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To: farmfriend
Sure, I believe you know science. CM55 doesn't appreciate new scientific information. AFAIK, the thread has been pulled, unless AM reposted it. If you have never heard of this story about "Ice Age Ancestry", genes and disease before, and you think it qualifies as breaking news, maybe you should contact the Admin Moderator. Ping anyone that understands science, please.

I doubt CM55 even read the story, just the title.
15 posted on 01/08/2004 10:11:50 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
LOL. Well actually I should have removed your name from that post. I was asking blam if he wanted me to ping the Gods, Graves, and Glyphs list.
16 posted on 01/08/2004 10:15:47 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend; neverdem; chookter
Yes.

Very good article neverdem. I believe within the next ten years there will become a branch of medicine perhaps titled 'genetic medicine.' There are clearly differences in the races (and every thing in between) and the effectiveness of different medicines within that race...and I'm using the word 'race' as meaning a specific genetic signature. If you like this sort of 'stuff', read the below linked article: (It blows my mind)

The Neanderthal Theory

17 posted on 01/08/2004 10:18:06 PM PST by blam
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To: neverdem; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs; abner; Alas Babylon!; Andyman; annyokie; bd476; BiffWondercat; ...
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this ping list.

18 posted on 01/08/2004 10:24:29 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: raynearhood
PANGENES! It's all about the Pangenes. Duh.

What are you trying to say?

19 posted on 01/08/2004 10:31:07 PM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: blam
Are medical researchers going to start testing for particular gene markers? I hope so if they are going to go down this road of ancestry medicine. Places like the Caribbean where there is a lot of mixing of ethnicities for years and years will certainly make it warranted. To most people 'race' is more political in this country and to ask some people who are white if they are white, may say no I'm Indian or something. I don't know how different the races really are anyway.
20 posted on 01/08/2004 10:32:56 PM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
"Are medical researchers going to start testing for particular gene markers? "

It looks that way...and to the benefit of us all. Color is just one varible in the genetic mix, and probably a minor one as it relates to the genetics of medicine.

21 posted on 01/08/2004 10:52:25 PM PST by blam
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To: blam
If it does not to lead to the government doing banana crazy things with it, then I think this idea is worth investigating. It will make them more effective, and possibly lower price (wishful thinking)
22 posted on 01/08/2004 10:55:10 PM PST by cyborg
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To: neverdem
Pangenes were what Darwin insisted (but could not prove) is the method by which evolution occurs. Genetic research was pretty young back then. Pangenes could not be observed due to lack of proper tools. However, they could not not be observed due to lack of proper tools, also. Better genetic researh than what was available during Darwin's proved that pangenes do not exist.

And so died Darwinism.

And so was born neo-Darwinism, otherwise known as the belief that evolution occurs with beneficial mutations as the method by which it occurs.
To have enough beneficial mutations occur in sequence to develop one simple adaptation (i.e. a lizard replacing its scales with feathers on the long road to becoming a bird.) is mathematically impossible. Scientist know this. So how is the problem explained?
Time.
Over a short period of time (say 100,000 years) it's mathematically impossible. But over billions of years it can happen. That is called extrapolation beyond reason.
It can't be observed due to the lack of equipment(like a time machine?). However, it CAN'T NOT be observed due the lack of equipment.

So... It's the pangenes, Stupid.
23 posted on 01/08/2004 11:08:04 PM PST by raynearhood (Evolution is not fact. A theory "proved" by a thousand theories is still a theory.)
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To: neverdem
BTW, have you ever read "The Mis Measure of Man" by Stephen Gould. One of the best books by an evolutionist on the history of the genetic study of the differences between races and how scientific methods and politics of different times shaped race relations and actual observable science up to the present.
24 posted on 01/08/2004 11:17:55 PM PST by raynearhood (Evolution is not fact. A theory "proved" by a thousand theories is still a theory.)
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To: cyborg
"It will make them more effective, and possibly lower price (wishful thinking)"

Wishful thinking, yes. More specialty = more expense. Just think, in 1900, there wasn't a specialty titled archaeologist or anthroplogist. What will there be in 2050?

25 posted on 01/08/2004 11:21:32 PM PST by blam
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To: raynearhood; All
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393314251/102-3822955-5380149?v=glance
Looks like a good book. I wonder if any of the FReepers that worship at the altar of the Bell Curve bothered to read it.
26 posted on 01/08/2004 11:22:12 PM PST by cyborg
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To: ConservativeMan55; Admin Moderator
Breaking News

- Not every story is breaking news. Breaking news should be news that affects most of us. There are some exceptions. If there is a hot current event happening, check breaking news. Most likely, it's there already, please check first, then use our search function. (explained below)

I'm glad you had a few chuckles CM55. Maybe I'm mad, but I think most of us here are politically conservative, and most conservatives have "Ice Age Ancestors" that are white males as well as the converse, and that as far as most African-Americans are concerned we're racists.

This article rebuts the notion, prevalent in the African-American community and re-inforced by the major mainstream media, that African-Americans receive inferior medical care causing them to have increased morbidity and mortality because of a racist society that provides insufficient funding of their health care needs, and a predominantly white and racist medical profession that gives them only second rate care.

Maybe it's been too long since you looked at the major media like the NY Times, CNN, ABC, CBS, and CBS. AFAIK, the last three of them had a weekly segment dealing with the big medical story of the week from the Journal of the American Medical Association or the New England Journal of Medicine, which have an issue almost every week. There have been quite a few stories from those journals that inferred African-Americans received inadequate medical care because of some latent racism on the broadcast evening news.

Don't feel bad, I rarely watch ABC, CBS or NBC either. From 6:00 PM EST, I've been watching Brit Hume on FNC for years now. But you should know what your political enemies are thinking, and that's why I still scan the NY Times. Every once in a while, you'll find stories like this, that slip through the cracks.

As far as racism goes, it's the argument of nature versus nurture, with conservatives mostly saying nature is the predominant force which determines sociological outcomes, and liberals saying it's the lack of nurture, i.e. racism, which predominates.

Since the Great Society and all the programs that followed, I can't think of anything else the "Whites" of this country could do in order to show that they are not racist, but show them the facts.

IMHO, here you have the "paper of record" giving you a new, breaking news "gift horse" that you want to shuffle off out of sight, when it deserves the widest dissemination.

27 posted on 01/09/2004 12:00:33 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Lest someone think that I believe it's either nature or nurture; no, I believe it's a variable combination. The question is which is decisive. If someone thinks I'm a racist, then they would be quite surprised to see my wife.
28 posted on 01/09/2004 12:16:55 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: raynearhood
So... It's the pangenes, Stupid.

Bear with me, the hour is late. I believe you're saying Darwin is/was correct. I hope so because natural selection from random, natural mutations explains the antibiotic resistance of formerly sensitive pathogenic organisms after exposure to a previously lethal antibiotic, i.e. to the organism, if the patient finished the prescription, e.g. a patient didn't finish the complete course of treatment prescribed by the physician because the patient started to feel much better and didn't finish her/his medicine.

29 posted on 01/09/2004 1:13:44 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: ConservativeMan55; Admin Moderator
In today's issue of the journal Science, they report that several lineages of mitochondrial DNA show signs of positive selection.

The magazine Science is not intended for general circulation, but the NY Times is. It's too bad you can't appreciate the import. I shall try a few more times before I surrender regarding science as an appropriate topic on FreeRepublic.com. I regret you are unable to appreciate what is new information. LOL

30 posted on 01/09/2004 3:00:40 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: PatrickHenry; VadeRetro; Piltdown_Woman; RadioAstronomer; Ichneumon
Ping.
31 posted on 01/09/2004 3:38:10 AM PST by Junior (To sweep, perchance to clean... Aye, there's the scrub.)
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To: neverdem; ConservativeMan55; Admin Moderator
IMHO, here you have the "paper of record" giving you a new, breaking news "gift horse" that you want to shuffle off out of sight, when it deserves the widest dissemination

How is it that OJ Simpson and Madonna were breaking news and a new scientific conclusion isn't.   OK, so the jocks like to make fun of the geeks, but that's only until the geeks fire them and tell them to work for someone else.

32 posted on 01/09/2004 4:22:24 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: neverdem
hmmmmm. I definitely NOT ice-age material.
33 posted on 01/09/2004 5:07:40 AM PST by Molly Pitcher (I miss Bob Bartley....)
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To: Junior
From the article:
By analyzing the changes in the DNA, they have been able to distinguish positive mutations, those selected because they are good or adaptive, from negative or harmful mutations. In today's issue of the journal Science, they report that several lineages of mitochondrial DNA show signs of positive selection.

Shocking. How can this be? The creationists keep insisting that all mutations are harmful.

34 posted on 01/09/2004 6:52:22 AM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: neverdem
Until now, most genetic change in the human population since it left Africa has been thought to be either random or just the elimination of harmful mutations.

Thought by whom? Maybe some PC ideologues, but certainly not anyone with a functioning brain.

35 posted on 01/09/2004 7:20:17 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Professional Engineer
ping
36 posted on 01/09/2004 7:26:54 AM PST by msdrby (US Veterans: All give some, but some give all.)
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To: Dark Wing
So you are definitely not from around here.
37 posted on 01/09/2004 7:56:10 AM PST by Thud
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To: Junior
Dr. Wallace and his colleagues say this correlation is evidence that the lineages were positively selected because they help the body generate more heat.

Well, this makes sense empirically. All of my ancestors came from arctic regions (if you go back far enough), none that I can recall were extremely fat, most only required one blanket for sleeping even during the coldest winters, all of them lived well into their late 80s and 90s but had brittle bones. Guess I'd better start taking more calcium and magnesium.

Swedish patriarch's first comment upon arriving in America: "Ya, sure...vell, ve go north!" ROFL! I always wondered why great-grandfather Alfred didn't bring the family to Florida.

38 posted on 01/09/2004 8:44:34 AM PST by Aracelis
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To: PatrickHenry
The creationists keep insisting that all mutations are harmful.

I suppose it depends on one's point of view. Scandinavians are noted for taking very hot saunas and then immediately rolling in the snow, eating Lutefisk and Sylta (you don't want to know), and as my dearly deceased relatives would tell it - walking 10 miles barefoot in the snow each way to school (actually, I've tried walking barefoot in the snow...exhilarating!). I think it's up for debate as to whether these are the result of beneficial mitochondrial mutations or not. Then of course, my family could just be plain nuts! LOL

39 posted on 01/09/2004 8:55:34 AM PST by Aracelis
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To: PatrickHenry
The creationists keep insisting that all mutations are harmful.
That's news to me. I believe that God created everything but I'm agnostic on how He did it. There's no doubt that evolution is a fact but, as someone with degrees in both chemistry and chemical engineering, I'm just not quite sold on the popular notion that pretty much anything can happen via evolution given enough time. The chemistry is very complicated.

40 posted on 01/09/2004 9:25:51 AM PST by DallasMike
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To: expat_panama
" OK, so the jocks like to make fun of the geeks, but that's only until the geeks fire them and tell them to work for someone else."

Amen...bottom line.

41 posted on 01/09/2004 9:27:18 AM PST by blam
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To: neverdem
"Bear with me, the hour is late."

I understand. I went to bed myself and woke up about an hour ago. Aaah, the joys of vacation.

"I believe you're saying Darwin is/was correct. I hope so because natural selection from random, natural mutations explains the antibiotic resistance of formerly sensitive pathogenic organisms after exposure to a previously lethal antibiotic, i.e. to the organism, if the patient finished the prescription, e.g. a patient didn't finish the complete course of treatment prescribed by the physician because the patient started to feel much better and didn't finish her/his medicine."

Actually, no. I was saying that Darwin was incorrect, and proved so, at least with the method of evolution that he proposed. Darwin never considered mutations as the means by which evolution occurs. From his amazing grip on scientific principles Darwin INVENTED a means by which evolution (which he admittedly knew to be impossible to observe - a theory developed from another set of theories = scientifically FUBAR)that neither he nor any other scientist of the time could prove or disprove and called them "pangenes."

The most common explanation for pangenetic evolution is the popular "Giraffe Story" (at least it used to be popular). Millions - billions, trillions - of years ago a horse ate all the grass from the ground that surrounded him. He was still hungry so he ate from the low branches of a tree. "Memory Genes" or Pangenes 'remembered' through the generations that the leaves provided more nutrition than grass so the horses developed a taste for the leaves instead of grass. Eventually the leaves from the bottom of the trees began to deplete, so the horses had to stretch their necks for higher leaves. The pangenes 'remembered' that necks had been stretched and subsequent generations were born with longer necks. Absurd? Yes. Disproved? Of course. When crimsons were able to be observed microscopically and the helix model of DNA developed, these pangenes were proved to never exist.

So, here is the theory of evolution hanging out in the late 1940's early 50's without so much as a theory for the method by which it occurs. So does the theory die. Of course not. Why? Because it hasn't been true science for years, why should it be now? Suddenly, NEO-DARWINISM is born, or the BELIEF that mutations are the driving force behind evolution.

I'm going to come back later with documentation that I don't have in front of me know. I haven't looked at this subject for years, so it may take some time, especially since I don't have access to my books (which I have labeled, marked, etc.). I'm in transition between duty stations and my Household Goods are somewhere between Darmstadt, GER. and Ft. Drum, NY.

Pathogenic resistance to antibiotics has never been proved to happen due to mutations. No one knows whether pathogens are genetically programmed to defend themselves by attaching to proteins that block antibodies or if a mutation actually occurs.
Let's assume that mutations are the means by which pathogens develop a defense against antibody's. What you read is that these pathogens have developed, after an intensive lab study, a defense against antibiotics through mutation. So is neo-Darwinism correct? No. Why? Because that is one beneficial mutation. It would take scores of subsequent beneficial mutations to ever change that pathogen into minnow - or more realistically a Super Disease immune to everything. Well, where is this Super Flu? Why haven't we seen a Super Virus mutate from the most common and most commonly mistreated virus? Because it doesn't happen. The pathogens develop a resistance to one kind of treatment at a time (sometimes 2 or 3 if it develops the right proteins) , simultaneously losing the ability to guard against other treatments. This is micro-evolution, better described as genetic variation within the genetic ability of a kind.
Micro-evolution is an observable, real process. Ex: An English Bull Mastiff and a Doberman Pincher are mated. Certain genetic qualities bred out of the offspring and after thirty generations you have new TYPE of the KIND dog... A Rottweiler. Now Rottweilers mated with Rottweilers will only give birth to Rottweilers because the genetic pool has been thinned so that the dominate, bred traits, win out during gestation. However, because of their lineage, Rottweilers do have the genetic ability to birth Berman's, and could be bred to do so. In all of this, a new species was never evolved, nor could have evolved. The same is true for the pathogens, however on a grander scale as thousands upon thousands of generations of pathogens can occur in the amount of time it took to develop Rottweilers.
By the way, a mutation did develop during the breeding of the Rottweiler. Two as a matter of fact. Both are debilitating. The first is that funny, extra finger we call the dewclaw which can immobilize an older dog, due to poor muscle development caused by the extra claw, if not removed early on. The other is a slightly wider hip placement caused by developing the Doberman's bone structure but the Mastiff's posture and mass, which cause Rott's hips to slip under their own weight too often.
Oh yeah, speaking of mutations... we are still assuming that mutations are the means that pathogens develop resistance to antibiotics. As you say, "natural selection from random, natural mutations explains the antibiotic resistance of formerly sensitive pathogenic organisms after exposure to a previously lethal antibiotic.." So does available genetic variations, however, neither has been proved nor disproved.

Again, I'm sorry for the lack of documentation. I hope these sound like well read arguments, because they are, and not babble. I search the Internet for supporting work.

Have you, by the way, read THE MIS MEASURE OF MAN by Stephen Gould, it has a lot to say about the subject you originally posted from one of the leading evolutionist minds of the past 50 years.
42 posted on 01/09/2004 9:59:16 AM PST by raynearhood (It's All About the Pangenes)
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To: Piltdown_Woman
... and as my dearly deceased relatives would tell it - walking 10 miles barefoot in the snow each way to school

You left out "uphill both ways".

43 posted on 01/09/2004 9:59:17 AM PST by balrog666 (Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.)
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To: Piltdown_Woman; cyborg
"Well, this makes sense empirically. All of my ancestors came from arctic regions (if you go back far enough), none that I can recall were extremely fat, most only required one blanket for sleeping even during the coldest winters, all of them lived well into their late 80s and 90s but had brittle bones. Guess I'd better start taking more calcium and magnesium."

When naturalist and explorer Alexander von Humboldt toured the Tierra del Fuego region (Southern most tip of Argentina), he described two different people who lived in the same region. One was tall and thin (...he went on to describe their abundant clothing) the other was short and stocky, almost fat.
The short stocky people were practically naked and two women rowed their canoe up to his ship to ask for supplies and he noted that both were topless and one was breast feeding an infant while the icy rain bounced off her shoulders and the babys' head.
The short stock people lived off the sea while the tall thin people lived off the land.

There were two different people living in harmony because they were not competing for the same resources.
Also, of the short stocky people, he noted that the women were in charge of the canoes and would tether them off-shore in the kelp beds and swim back to the shore when they were not in use by the men. (There was a sharp rocky coast that would destroy the canoes if tethered on the coast)
He thought this was so because women have more body fat than men and the water was icy cold.

44 posted on 01/09/2004 9:59:48 AM PST by blam
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To: raynearhood
crimsons (near the end of 5th paragraph) = chromosomes

Sorry, Spellcheck stuck it to me.
45 posted on 01/09/2004 10:02:34 AM PST by raynearhood (It's All About the Pangenes)
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To: blam
Also, of the short stocky people, he noted that the women were in charge of the canoes and would tether them off-shore in the kelp beds and swim back to the shore when they were not in use by the men.
Do you mean when the canoes weren't being used by the men or when the women weren't being used by the men?

46 posted on 01/09/2004 10:05:15 AM PST by DallasMike
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To: Piltdown_Woman; cyborg
This recent article seems to support Humboldt's observations described in post #38

'First Americans Were Australians'

47 posted on 01/09/2004 10:11:15 AM PST by blam
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To: DallasMike
"Do you mean when the canoes weren't being used by the men or when the women weren't being used by the men?"

When the canoes were not being used by the men. (ahem)

48 posted on 01/09/2004 10:12:55 AM PST by blam
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To: blam; All
All I know is that I'm sick of cold weather in NY (I'm beginning to sound like my parents). Wonder which part of the family tree that one comes from!
49 posted on 01/09/2004 10:15:10 AM PST by cyborg
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To: cyborg
The sensible part.
50 posted on 01/09/2004 10:20:15 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Death before dhimmi.)
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