Ice Age Ancestry May Keep Body Warmer and Healthier

NY Times ^ | January 9, 2004 | NICHOLAS WADE

[blam]

" OK, so the jocks like to make fun of the geeks, but that's only until the geeks fire them and tell them to work for someone else."

Amen...bottom line.

[raynearhood]

"Bear with me, the hour is late."

I understand. I went to bed myself and woke up about an hour ago. Aaah, the joys of vacation.

"I believe you're saying Darwin is/was correct. I hope so because natural selection from random, natural mutations explains the antibiotic resistance of formerly sensitive pathogenic organisms after exposure to a previously lethal antibiotic, i.e. to the organism, if the patient finished the prescription, e.g. a patient didn't finish the complete course of treatment prescribed by the physician because the patient started to feel much better and didn't finish her/his medicine."

Actually, no. I was saying that Darwin was incorrect, and proved so, at least with the method of evolution that he proposed. Darwin never considered mutations as the means by which evolution occurs. From his amazing grip on scientific principles Darwin INVENTED a means by which evolution (which he admittedly knew to be impossible to observe - a theory developed from another set of theories = scientifically FUBAR)that neither he nor any other scientist of the time could prove or disprove and called them "pangenes."

The most common explanation for pangenetic evolution is the popular "Giraffe Story" (at least it used to be popular). Millions - billions, trillions - of years ago a horse ate all the grass from the ground that surrounded him. He was still hungry so he ate from the low branches of a tree. "Memory Genes" or Pangenes 'remembered' through the generations that the leaves provided more nutrition than grass so the horses developed a taste for the leaves instead of grass. Eventually the leaves from the bottom of the trees began to deplete, so the horses had to stretch their necks for higher leaves. The pangenes 'remembered' that necks had been stretched and subsequent generations were born with longer necks. Absurd? Yes. Disproved? Of course. When crimsons were able to be observed microscopically and the helix model of DNA developed, these pangenes were proved to never exist.

So, here is the theory of evolution hanging out in the late 1940's early 50's without so much as a theory for the method by which it occurs. So does the theory die. Of course not. Why? Because it hasn't been true science for years, why should it be now? Suddenly, NEO-DARWINISM is born, or the BELIEF that mutations are the driving force behind evolution.

I'm going to come back later with documentation that I don't have in front of me know. I haven't looked at this subject for years, so it may take some time, especially since I don't have access to my books (which I have labeled, marked, etc.). I'm in transition between duty stations and my Household Goods are somewhere between Darmstadt, GER. and Ft. Drum, NY.

Pathogenic resistance to antibiotics has never been proved to happen due to mutations. No one knows whether pathogens are genetically programmed to defend themselves by attaching to proteins that block antibodies or if a mutation actually occurs.
Let's assume that mutations are the means by which pathogens develop a defense against antibody's. What you read is that these pathogens have developed, after an intensive lab study, a defense against antibiotics through mutation. So is neo-Darwinism correct? No. Why? Because that is one beneficial mutation. It would take scores of subsequent beneficial mutations to ever change that pathogen into minnow - or more realistically a Super Disease immune to everything. Well, where is this Super Flu? Why haven't we seen a Super Virus mutate from the most common and most commonly mistreated virus? Because it doesn't happen. The pathogens develop a resistance to one kind of treatment at a time (sometimes 2 or 3 if it develops the right proteins) , simultaneously losing the ability to guard against other treatments. This is micro-evolution, better described as genetic variation within the genetic ability of a kind.
Micro-evolution is an observable, real process. Ex: An English Bull Mastiff and a Doberman Pincher are mated. Certain genetic qualities bred out of the offspring and after thirty generations you have new TYPE of the KIND dog... A Rottweiler. Now Rottweilers mated with Rottweilers will only give birth to Rottweilers because the genetic pool has been thinned so that the dominate, bred traits, win out during gestation. However, because of their lineage, Rottweilers do have the genetic ability to birth Berman's, and could be bred to do so. In all of this, a new species was never evolved, nor could have evolved. The same is true for the pathogens, however on a grander scale as thousands upon thousands of generations of pathogens can occur in the amount of time it took to develop Rottweilers.
By the way, a mutation did develop during the breeding of the Rottweiler. Two as a matter of fact. Both are debilitating. The first is that funny, extra finger we call the dewclaw which can immobilize an older dog, due to poor muscle development caused by the extra claw, if not removed early on. The other is a slightly wider hip placement caused by developing the Doberman's bone structure but the Mastiff's posture and mass, which cause Rott's hips to slip under their own weight too often.
Oh yeah, speaking of mutations... we are still assuming that mutations are the means that pathogens develop resistance to antibiotics. As you say, "natural selection from random, natural mutations explains the antibiotic resistance of formerly sensitive pathogenic organisms after exposure to a previously lethal antibiotic.." So does available genetic variations, however, neither has been proved nor disproved.

Again, I'm sorry for the lack of documentation. I hope these sound like well read arguments, because they are, and not babble. I search the Internet for supporting work.

Have you, by the way, read THE MIS MEASURE OF MAN by Stephen Gould, it has a lot to say about the subject you originally posted from one of the leading evolutionist minds of the past 50 years.

[balrog666]

... and as my dearly deceased relatives would tell it - walking 10 miles barefoot in the snow each way to school

You left out "uphill both ways".

[blam]

"Well, this makes sense empirically. All of my ancestors came from arctic regions (if you go back far enough), none that I can recall were extremely fat, most only required one blanket for sleeping even during the coldest winters, all of them lived well into their late 80s and 90s but had brittle bones. Guess I'd better start taking more calcium and magnesium."

When naturalist and explorer Alexander von Humboldt toured the Tierra del Fuego region (Southern most tip of Argentina), he described two different people who lived in the same region. One was tall and thin (...he went on to describe their abundant clothing) the other was short and stocky, almost fat.
The short stocky people were practically naked and two women rowed their canoe up to his ship to ask for supplies and he noted that both were topless and one was breast feeding an infant while the icy rain bounced off her shoulders and the babys' head.
The short stock people lived off the sea while the tall thin people lived off the land.

There were two different people living in harmony because they were not competing for the same resources.
Also, of the short stocky people, he noted that the women were in charge of the canoes and would tether them off-shore in the kelp beds and swim back to the shore when they were not in use by the men. (There was a sharp rocky coast that would destroy the canoes if tethered on the coast)
He thought this was so because women have more body fat than men and the water was icy cold.

[raynearhood]

crimsons (near the end of 5th paragraph) = chromosomes

Sorry, Spellcheck stuck it to me.

[DallasMike]

Also, of the short stocky people, he noted that the women were in charge of the canoes and would tether them off-shore in the kelp beds and swim back to the shore when they were not in use by the men.

Do you mean when the canoes weren't being used by the men or when the women weren't being used by the men?

[blam]

This recent article seems to support Humboldt's observations described in post #38

'First Americans Were Australians'

[blam]

"Do you mean when the canoes weren't being used by the men or when the women weren't being used by the men?"

When the canoes were not being used by the men. (ahem)

[cyborg]

All I know is that I'm sick of cold weather in NY (I'm beginning to sound like my parents). Wonder which part of the family tree that one comes from!

[Tijeras_Slim]

The sensible part.

[cyborg]

LOL yep

[blam]

"Wonder which part of the family tree that one comes from!"

LOL. I been accused of acting like a Neanderthal at times but, no red-heads in my family.

Redheads 'Are Neanderthals'

[cyborg]

People celebrating their neanderthal heritage :D
http://www.redandproud.com/famous%20redheads%20anti.htm

[neverdem]

Use calcium supplements with vitamin D₃ unless you get plenty of sun exposure. In that case, use adequate sunscreen to prevent skin malignancies.

I'm unaware of a need for magnesium supplements when a normal diet is consumed unless certain medical diagnoses are present.

[blam]

"People celebrating their neanderthal heritage :D "

Oooh. I'm in love with Nicole Kidman...what a Neanderthal, huh? (BTW, my son looks like her ex-husband, Tom Cruise...he is FReeper 'charge carrier', go look.)

[cyborg]

Where's your son been lately?? He does look like Tom Cruise.

[ruoflaw]

I'm one half Norwegian and I get chilled easily... however, I love Lutefisk!

[neverdem]

Have you, by the way, read THE MIS MEASURE OF MAN by Stephen Gould, it has a lot to say about the subject you originally posted from one of the leading evolutionist minds of the past 50 years.

No, and I doubt I'll have enough interest or time to indulge in Dr. Gould unless it's clinically applicable. Darwin's theory works for me as far as antibiotic resistant organisms and the clinically appropriate use of antibiotics.

As a practical matter, why or how these genetic mutations occur doesn't matter to me, other than to note that they happened, unless it relates to my concern with the consequences in society as a whole or the patients I encounter.

[cyborg]

The true test of ethnic solidarity

[raynearhood]

Well, if it works for you....