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The FR Range: Weekly Thread for Feb. 25th, 2004
FR | Wednesday, February 25, 2004 | Longcut and risk

Posted on 02/25/2004 1:30:51 AM PST by risk

Brown Bess"Old Bess"
Old Hunter "Old Hunter" Stop by to post anything gun-related! First Navy Flag
NRA, GOA, JPFO
ATRW, Canteen, Foxhole
Earlier: XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?
Debut Weekly Thread for Feb. 19th, 2004


TOPICS: History; Hobbies; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: bang; frrange
It's about time for another post.
1 posted on 02/25/2004 1:30:51 AM PST by risk
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To: bang_list; Long Cut; Squantos; harpseal; Travis McGee; Shooter 2.5; Centurion2000; Poohbah; ...
Time for another ping? Not sure chat was the best place for this. What's going on with S.659, Feinstein's rider? Will the marriage amendment discussion help to remind people what the Constitution means? Any news about other things? Who didn't go out shooting last week!
2 posted on 02/25/2004 1:45:16 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
Good morning risk. Well I went to the range Monday, and as usual, except for the 2 ladies working there, I was the only female in the store, on the range.

Somewhere I saw a good story, and will find it to link here later...

3 posted on 02/25/2004 4:39:38 AM PST by Molly Pitcher
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To: risk
Good morning risk. I see "Old Hunter" looks safe now from "Old Bess". LOL.

I haven't been to the range for over a year. :-(

As for the marriage amendment I haven't even heard it mentioned among my co-workers, they probably don't have a clue. I'll have to ask for some opinions among the sheeple to get an idea. Good project. :-)
4 posted on 02/25/2004 5:04:45 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: risk
Thanks for the ping.

I like the Old Bess. It would be fun to own something like her.

I have a mind to put together a couple flintlock or caplock pistols for my (grown) kids for next Christmas.

Does anyone recommend a particular kit?

On other grounds, I was disappointed to see more Republican politicians preparing to vote for continuation of the assault weapons bans. Jerks.
5 posted on 02/25/2004 5:18:14 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: snippy_about_it
"As for the marriage amendment I haven't even heard it mentioned among my co-workers, they probably don't have a clue"

There was some discussion about it last night at my fishing club. I'd say there was a slight majority against it, mostly on the grounds that it's up to the states.

I personally tend to agree with that. I'm not ready to admit to myself that our nation is so changed from our founders' vision that we conservatives should abandon that vision too, and fight issues on an arbitrary basis instead of within what was supposed to have been the original framework, separation of powers, etc.

Probably I am delusional, though.

6 posted on 02/25/2004 5:23:43 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Molly Pitcher; snippy_about_it
Well I went to the range Monday, and as usual, except for the 2 ladies working there, I was the only female in the store, on the range.

Super! I see you're earning your name here in more ways than one.

7 posted on 02/25/2004 5:24:56 AM PST by risk
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To: Sam Cree
I think you're making some good points. On the other hand, I'm getting tired of being painted as a bigot for wanting to stop national-level same sex marriages. Can you imaging people immigrating on the basis of such relationships? I really didn't trouble myself over this matter until I thought about that. Then I thought about the divorce proceedings. Can you imagine how officer O'Leary is going to feel as the Balif? Can you imagine serving on a jury involving a child custody dispute -- from a test tube baby -- arising from a divorce proceding? These things make us want to get up and start passing out the petitions.
8 posted on 02/25/2004 5:28:43 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
OK, here is a request for advice.

I was in a pawn shop last week and noticed a Remington 742 in the rack. The owner said he would take $200 for it. Now this gun looked to be in good shape except someone had spray painted it green/brown in some sort attempt to camoflage it. They had also replaced the wood with synthetic material.

I asked the dealer about it and he said he had sent it to a gunsmith because it jammed. He had replaced the extractor.

The dealer said the low price was due to it being a 742 as they were known to be trouble prone. He did say it was working perfectly now. I have owned three 742, model 4, and 74 rifles and never had any problems but got to wondering. Are these rifles really that bad?

I think I am going to buy it but would like to hear a few more people's experience first.

9 posted on 02/25/2004 5:32:22 AM PST by yarddog
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To: risk
C-SPAN II covers Assault Weapons ban renewal debate today
10 posted on 02/25/2004 5:32:59 AM PST by Molly Pitcher
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To: snippy_about_it
Haiti Rebels: Aristide Made Error on Guns

Interesting and thought-provoking situation in Haiti. What could our founding fathers have had in mind? A sample:

George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." (Address to 1st session of Congress)
Where are men of this character in our high offices today?
11 posted on 02/25/2004 5:39:32 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
Just thinking about such things as the actual "consumation" of a gay marriage is reasonably nauseating.

I read a comment on this forum yesterday pointing out that there is nothing to prevent anyone, gay or otherwise, from legally binding themselves together in any way they want right now, a good point, IMO. I don't have a problem with it.

But gays now want the *title,* they want to call themselves *married,* a legal contract isn't enough for them. I think that may imply a sacrament, which is just plain goofy, not to mention sacreligious.

I'm not a religious person, but cannot help worrying about these things. After all, I place extreme value on my own marriage.

I don't see how a church can consecrate a gay marriage and still maintain religious credibility, so such a thing is up to civil authority, I guess. Such things are a reflection of societal mores, I think; I wonder how much success politicians could have in changing our mores on this issue.
12 posted on 02/25/2004 5:53:36 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Sam Cree
I'd say there was a slight majority against it, mostly on the grounds that it's up to the states.

That would work if we would return to states rights but having it already disintigrated, what do you do?

Part of the dilema here as I see it is that there are too many laws that prohibit "states rights". If an amendment were adopted you'd have your lawsuits to the Federal courts, regardless.

Laws, it's all about lawyers and money and we've gone so far away from the Constituion I'm not sure if anything would work, an amendment or just state laws.

It's sad to think there is no turning back, we've grown too much and too many people have come to live here that don't "hold our truths to be self-evident", that there is probably no turning back as much as we'd like to think there is.

Geez, that's sounds depressing. I think I'll stop.

13 posted on 02/25/2004 6:06:35 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: risk
Where are men of this character in our high offices today?

Between this and the gay marriage issue you already have me riled up this morning. Would that we could still tar and feather our politicians and drag them out of town. We vote and we try to put the most conservative person in office and that is too often a stretch.

As for Haiti, I'm for letting them have at it, they do every few years anyway. I don't want us to get involved, let them battle it out for themselves, armed as they are.

Now I'm fired up and late for an appointment.

This is going to be an interesting weekly thread! Thanks for the ping.

14 posted on 02/25/2004 6:11:52 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
"It's sad to think there is no turning back, we've grown too much and too many people have come to live here that don't "hold our truths to be self-evident", that there is probably no turning back as much as we'd like to think there is."

I don't doubt you are right. If so, we should fight issue by issue with no thought to the framework. Only thing is, without the framework and the "rule of law," our freedom is lost.

I keep thinking that it already is lost, and that the momentum of tradition is all that provides us with what freedom we still have.

Although I do still see us as quite "free," I wonder if enough has changed, and enough laws are in placce, that under the "right" leader, we could suddenly find everything reversed very quickly.

15 posted on 02/25/2004 6:16:09 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: snippy_about_it
Be of strong courage. Our ancestors stared down hordes of Indians, floods, earthquakes, fires, a massive Civil War, and inter-state rivalries -- all before the 20th century. We're going to slow down this crazy immigration so that those who're living here now can appreciate what we have. Then things will settle down.

And we're going to keep our guns.
16 posted on 02/25/2004 6:16:13 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
There is literature out there asserting that the Washington quote is not real.
17 posted on 02/25/2004 6:22:24 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: risk
659 is a dead bill. It's been replaced by 1805. It will be debated at 9:30 according to the schedule which is in about 14 minutes. My understanding is there are still no amendments or riders on the bill. Frist made a motion to make sure it's a clean bill but I don't know if that was successful or not.

I went plinking Sunday with a Para .45 and a Smith .22. I was throwing wooden blocks out as far as I could and shooting them. Unfortunately, there was a big gunshow that weekend and there were about 40 people at the lease. After awhile some of the machinegunners liked my targets and started to shoot at them. It became so ridiculous that I would throw out about four blocks just so I could shoot at one. This problem happened a lot with my partner and I thought he was being overly sensitive. Since it was happening to me, he was just standing there with a big smile on his face.
18 posted on 02/25/2004 6:23:15 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Sam Cree
There is literature out there asserting that the Washington quote is not real.

Thank you for pointing that out, Sam! I should have wondered about his use of percentages. I don't recall seeing a lot of those in the 18th century writing.

19 posted on 02/25/2004 6:27:19 AM PST by risk
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To: Shooter 2.5
Other shooters were shooting at your targets?

I guess even we outdoorsmen and women have our share of jerks.

20 posted on 02/25/2004 6:55:36 AM PST by yarddog
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To: risk; Long Cut
<===Mash this

Any one need a BB Mini Gun?

21 posted on 02/25/2004 7:03:23 AM PST by SAMWolf (Hamas is Arabic for "dumb f--ks with explosives".)
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To: yarddog
My partner has repeated the same statement over and over.

"Guys come out with 10,000 dollar machine guns and not five dollars worth of targets."

Well, my partner had his revenge. I thought all these years he was just being overly sensitive. Now I understand where he's coming from. We use clay bird throwers to put the birds on a bank so we can shoot at them. He finally had a success after losing about five birds and someone else shot it before he had a chance to even pick up his revolver. He really chewed the guy out. At the time, I thought it was funny. I'll send you a Freepmail right now so you can see what we do.
22 posted on 02/25/2004 7:08:00 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Shooter 2.5
When I lived in Western Kansas I belonged to a gun club which had a great range. One day I went out with a friend and when we got there the gate was unlocked so we knew someone else was already there.

We began to hear automatic weapons fire as we drove into the shooting area. There were 8 (I think) Mexican looking men wearing civilian clothes. They were blasting away with clip after clip from G-3's. We spoke to them but got only kurt replies in Spanish. They were in a late model Suburban type vehicle with Texas plates.

After a few minutes we felt uncomfortable and left. We drove around and looked for coyotes for about an hour then returned. There was a large amount of Lake City 7.62 brass on the ground and I picked it up.

Now our range had a padlock on the gate and someone let them in. My friend was a Federal LEO and he did some checking in the next week but we never did find out who they were or anything about them.

23 posted on 02/25/2004 7:25:36 AM PST by yarddog
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To: yarddog
They're voting now but they are soooo slow. It's taking minutes between a single vote. I hope they're voting for the Bill.
24 posted on 02/25/2004 7:39:26 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: risk
Nail biter but I think we're doing a 2-1 in our favor. It's not alphabetical so I don't know how many have to vote.
25 posted on 02/25/2004 7:44:02 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: yarddog; risk
That vote wasn't for the final passage. They're still debating.
26 posted on 02/25/2004 8:11:17 AM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: Sam Cree
under the "right" leader

Now if we could just find that person willing to take the really hard-line.

27 posted on 02/25/2004 10:54:58 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: risk
Be of strong courage. Our ancestors stared down hordes of Indians, floods, earthquakes, fires, a massive Civil War, and inter-state rivalries -- all before the 20th century.

As hostess of the Foxhole I should know that. :-) Thanks for the reminder.

28 posted on 02/25/2004 10:56:01 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
"Now if we could just find that person willing to take the really hard-line."

Funny, I had been thinking about someone like Hellary, that might flip the whole country into totalitarianism before we knew it.

I much prefer your more positive take.

I think I have acquired a Colt 1911 from the 40's, US Army. I shot a few clips through it with good results, I'm excited.

29 posted on 02/25/2004 11:44:08 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: risk; Eaker; archy; Squantos; wardaddy; Long Cut; Mulder; Noumenon
Here are the two final versions of the "ultimate RKBA stickers." Tell me if you like the 2nd amd or the RKBA better... They will soon be available in a larger size for car stickers.


30 posted on 02/25/2004 5:40:54 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
The second.

Many won't won't understand the first.

31 posted on 02/25/2004 6:07:53 PM PST by Eaker ("Do I feel your pain?? Hell, I caused your pain!!!!" - Tom Eaker, 2004)
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To: Eaker
Good point. How about if we added

SECOND . . . . . . . . .AMENDMENT

on the mid-line, on either side of the graphic? Too cluttered?

32 posted on 02/25/2004 6:15:39 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Tough call. The first- the 2nd am - is truer to the original theme of the flag.

The message in the RKBA is more direct, for my money.

Shoot - I'll take 5 of each.

BTW, loaned my copy of EFAD to the owner of Lone Wolf Distributors - the Glock parts and accessories folks. Left a hint that if he liked it, he might want to add it to his product lineup.
33 posted on 02/25/2004 8:05:40 PM PST by Noumenon (This tagline has been outsourced to Bangalore)
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To: Noumenon
Small world! I met J.R.S. at the SHOT Show, got his card right here in front of me. I hope he likes the book.

As far as the stickers, it looks like it's leaning toward the RKBA line. I guess most sheeple don't know the 2nd amd from the 22nd.

34 posted on 02/25/2004 9:39:43 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee; Eaker

Stay Safe !

35 posted on 02/25/2004 11:01:28 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: risk
THX for the Ping Risk !..........Stay safe !
36 posted on 02/25/2004 11:07:55 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.)
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To: Squantos
Now THAT'S a quick camera!
37 posted on 02/25/2004 11:58:06 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Squantos; archy; blackie; shaggy eel; Piefloater
Interesting pic. Any details on how it was made?
38 posted on 02/26/2004 1:06:06 AM PST by risk
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To: risk
Interesting pic. Any details on how it was made?

Details? Right here you go: *here* and *here*, and

Picture gallery *here*

39 posted on 02/26/2004 2:33:09 AM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
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To: Travis McGee
Yeah, I like JR - he's a straight-up guy and he runs a good outfit. Turned me on to a local Kung Fu San Soo trainer, so now I've got excuse to not get back into it.

They bought a StarBandSmall Office rig from me. No broadband out where they are. Now they're happy as clams with a full 1mbps down and 100 kbps up.
40 posted on 02/26/2004 7:52:31 AM PST by Noumenon (This tagline has been outsourced to Bangalore)
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To: risk
Good thread!


41 posted on 02/26/2004 9:19:13 AM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Travis McGee
I like the second one best.
42 posted on 02/26/2004 6:18:32 PM PST by Long Cut ("Man, don't hit me with those negative waves SOOoo early in the morning." - Oddball)
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To: Long Cut
It's running about 75% for the second one on all the forums, except Sniper'sHide.com, where the top one is 100%. Go figure.
43 posted on 02/26/2004 9:24:42 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I like the second one better.

Most of the sheeple don't know what "the second amendment" means.

44 posted on 02/27/2004 9:15:19 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: Mulder
At least one outfit is going to produce the "TRTKABA" version: LifeLibertyEtc.com.
45 posted on 02/27/2004 9:20:46 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
At least one outfit is going to produce the "TRTKABA" version: LifeLibertyEtc.com.

Looks like a cool site!

Did you check out the girl wearing the "peace through superior firepower" t-shirt? ;-)

46 posted on 02/27/2004 9:42:10 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: Travis McGee
Re: stickers -

Muttly vote for "The Second Amendment"...

...because liberals think that RIGHTS are debatable, negotiable, removable. They are legalists...and this is already our FOUNDATIONAL LAW...so we should remind them of that...and that WE are not their problem...the true and original and functional "ecosystem" of AMERICA is....and we remember...and will not give it up without a big, bad, righteous FIGHT !!!
47 posted on 02/29/2004 4:14:50 PM PST by PoorMuttly (The price of Freedom is eternal Muttly)
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To: Mulder
I've always thought that the "Peace Through Superior Firepower" logo would look better with some bullet holes grouped around the center like a shot up target.
48 posted on 02/29/2004 11:05:58 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: PoorMuttly
Well, about 80% of folks have voted for the other motto. I guess that's the one for now.
49 posted on 02/29/2004 11:08:11 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: PoorMuttly
...because liberals think that RIGHTS are debatable, negotiable, removable. They are legalists...

I'm not so sure, compadre. "Legalist" doesn't show up in my dictionary; but "legalism" does - "strict adherence to law." Liberals do not promote "strict adherence to law." In fact, they are offended by law - they are offended by the literal meaning of the actual, written words of the Constitution, and the laws "made in pursuance thereof." They prefer emotional expediency to law, which is why they always claim their unlawful, totalitarian acts are committed "for the children"...

IMHO, the Constitution (and 'the rule of law') has been a blessing to this nation - liberals have not.

;>)

50 posted on 03/03/2004 5:02:32 PM PST by Who is John Galt? ("Never bring a taco to a gunfight..." Sans-Culotte, 02/26/2004)
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