Skip to comments.(vanity) ODB Death, the sadness of some of the comments
Posted on 11/14/2004 12:05:15 AM PST by ConYoungBlack
I know this a message board and that I am new, but being a black man I have some problems with the tone of some of the comments earlier posted.
While his music is a subjective matter of tatse, I don't think it warrants a "good riddance" shout upon the announcement of his death.
I am (as many know) probably the only conservative in my family and neighborhood. I am usually on the side of these things where I am the one that comes across callous and insensitive (yuk, I hate that liberal word).
In this case however, I can identify that is someones father, brother, son. I know that he chose his own road, butfrom accounts and reports, this man was mentally ill, and rich and famous. A deadly combo in my humble opinion. Especially in a business like the music business and around the pimps and hustlers he was surrounded with. It sounds like many used this mans unstable mind for a free ticket of their own to the point of not protecting him from himself and the leaches.
I find his death to be a sad tale, and just as sad as any tale of the death of Jimi Hendrix, Marvin Gaye, or Donny Hathaway. Not because think he was as talented as them. to the contrary. Because I think he was as human as them.
Not all rappers, or young blacks in rap media are deserving of death. This man, played the role of a clown. He fought his mental illness with drugs and attention. No one stepped up for him. In this case I feel sorry for him, and I hold this as another in the long line of indictments of the loss of family and community in the black culture and neighborhoods.
I was shocked by some of the more spiteful coments. Any and every death deserves either full inspection and comment with thought, or no comment at all.
Sorry to rant.
"Any and every death deserves either full inspection and comment with thought, or no comment at all. "
Sorry, no, it doesn't.
Yassar arafat died this week. I didn't need a 'full inspection' to determine my feelings on it. I was glad he died. Simple.
He had that right and he was a talented artist, sad to see him go so young but thats what happens when you live harder than your body can take.
Not much respect is given to rap artists here like Dirty Old Bastard. He lived up to his name.
In contrast, numerous times I've seen effusive posts about Jimmy Hendrix who lead a good life but also took a lot of drugs and died from them. So it's not just being black. White artists get strongly criticized here when they open their loud mouths to help elect John Kerry.
Double-secret-probation-good-riddance, (c)rapper scum.
I agree. I am ranting. I will add a qualifyer. In cases where the person in general wasn't an obvious assh&*le or someone that caused harm to others.
Is that better?
Or is it still open game on ODB simply because he was a rapper?
Don't know enough about him to make a comment. So I don't.
However, if another rapper, like, say, eminem were to meet with some unfortuante circumstancess, then I would have something to say.
Wooo, this time of night you're more likely to bring out the cranky people. That being said, there are folks here who perform the "flock of seagulls" manuever on just about any thread - they'll fly in and poop all over it, regardless of the subject.
It's not just rap music: I've seen it happen to tribute threads for dead childhood friends, calls to prayer, tributes to female soldiers, religion threads, pro-life threads, you name it, they've messed it up. They will swoop in before regular freepers even get a chance to post.
They will ESPECIALLY do it if you are new!
Anyhow, I know a lot of folks who listen to ODB and they really liked his style. I haven't talked to them yet about it but I'm pretty sure they'll be upset by his passing. But most of them don't post here, especially in the dead of night. I'm sorry if someone said something stupid... it's a big internet, and most Freepers wouldn't say something racist - it's against board policy.
This idea of respecting somebody just because they died has always baffled me. Can we speak badly about them up until the exact moment they die and then we must stop? What about the act of dying is so heroic that it wipes out a lifetime of other than honorable actions?
I play blues guitar, and trust me when I say that Jimi is my number one hero in that refard as a mucisian, but as person the myth just isn't true. He wasn't the fun loving, peaceful, non-materialistic guy that the media has revised him to be.
In his last year on earth, he beat two women with a brick in front of on lookers (including his own body guards) in front of his hotel . What for, you may ask? For wanting to have sex with Noel Redding instead of him, while on tour.
It still doesn't mean that I go to the other extreme and call him an ass%^le either, but you have to consider the whole measure of a man. Not just what suits preconcieved notions of stereotypes.
Jimi had his good and his bad, He was young and talented, and his death was a tradgedy for that. Same goes for Mr. Jones (ODB).
I ragged on ODB because he was a psycho and often hurtful to others. I also got to see some of his antics up close and personal, and that influences my judgment. While I'm glad Wu-Tang did give back to the north shore community in Staten Island, ODB was an embarrassment.
Has nothing to do with the music, his race or inventive orthodontry. ODB was a crazy jerk who stumbled through life with an army of enablers and left behind more than his fair share of personal wreckage.
Wherever O.D.B. may be now, I am pretty sure what people are saying about him on the Free Republic is the farthest thing from his mind.
May he find more peace in the next life than he did in the last.
Don't know anything about ODB but God bless his soul. As for artists killing themselves on drugs, it seems to be a universal form of demise for musicians. That and plane crashes.
I would wager however that country singers are the most self-destrective. Keith Whitley, Hank Williams killed themselves with booze. Johnny Cash battled drugs all his life.
Read my reply. I've added a qualifyer. I understand that I stated my case poorly to begin with. The fact of the matter is that there are some deaths that are clearly not worthy of negative and spiteful comment. Rather no comment at all. This was one of those.
Now Yasser, Saddams people, OBL, Castro, those kind of people are open game.
Sadly I feel that his "art" wasn't seperated from his "person" in these comments. People figure "If he rapped about bad stuff.......then he did bad stuff"
You are absolutely right. The list of people who would have their death celebrated on this board should be very, very small, and this guy, whatever he might have been, surely shouldn't qualify. God bless him and his family.
I'm with you, especially when it is a life we know little about. I don't have it in me to be happy with any death, even the worst among us. Whatever dignity, respect and good will they lacked does not seem to me to be an excuse to meet their passing in kind.
I think it really depends on the person - like, if it's Arafat or Hitler, yes, you stand a good chance of being able to vent.
On the other hand, if a person wants to post a "tribute" thread, usually the "if you don't like it don't read it" rule applies - it's usually meant for a tribute to be sent to families or fans of the deceased. I remember specifically a thread that was a meant to be a tribute to a freeper's friend who was killed in an accident, and it was absoLUTEly trashed by people who just showed up to make crude comments about a dead person they didn't even know (motorcycles enrage some folks evidently). I just don't think it's right to mock someone's grief, or to mock the dead. Ask people's grannies, they'll usually say the same thing. And I'm not even that old...
I was raised up specifically not to speak ill of the dead - perhaps that's just southern, or old fashioned, but it brings BAD mojo on the person doing it usually. Unless it's Arafat, and I broke my rule on that one. I hope I don't get bad luck from it... :P
This is the internet. People tend to type what they would never say in open conversation. And while I regularly see comments on Free Republic that make me queasy, it's nothing like what you'd see on Democratic Underground. FR is The Disney Channel compared to DU.
Unfair? Maybe. I don't care. Lowlifes, idiots and thugs are given a pass far too often these days. Celebrated, even. Screw that.
And how many kids did this "man" spawn and neglect? Thirteen, was it? So he's not just dead - he's a dead a$$hole.
I'd like to say that Hendrix is my model for my guitar playing but I'm just not that talented. Richards is my muse. I've been playing in nothing but 5 string open G for 2 years now. Capo to change keys of course. B flat is my favoprite for bluesy stuff. Nice to see another musician on the page. Alot of opinionated people here, myself included, was an artist most of my life so I know a little about being the odd man out politically. Try being a conservative in that world, it can be tough. Don't be offended with people, emotions run high around here. God bless America!
I guess when we live in a society that praises thuggery and outlandish behavior from the likes of MTV, everyone who buys into that garbage develops a thin skin and go off half-cocked when unpolitically correct folks like myself smack them in the face with reality.
Don't know him; never even heard of him.
I grieve for his family and loved ones.
As to him personally, nothing any of us can say will ever hurt him anymore.
He has gone on (I pray) to a better place.
I was raised the same way. I had a brother-in-law die who was a real SOB to his wife (my husband's sister) and I felt no desire whatsoever to speak well of him after he died. I held my tongue but knew if I ever did talk about him it would not be out of a phony sense of respect I never felt for him in life. So here it is 10 years later and I still haven't talked about him which is my respect for those he left behind, not him.
I've tried to do bottleneck blues and rhythm strumming, and that's as close as I get to guitar. I'd rather sing, it's easier. Except for the smoke, which never bothered me until just lately, which is really weird.
First set, fine, then later sets I'm getting more stuffy.
If you wanna talk about what kills musicians, it's the food, hours and the travelling. Unless you're really big, you drive like a crazy monkey in a van to get from Minneapolis to Boston in 12 hours so you can pick up a gig for the door of a mid-sized club. Eat cheetos and beef jerky for dinner, then you do it all again the next night!
My little brother's a musician, so I can vouch - it's hard on a body. But if you love it, it's all you'll ever want to do...
I wish I had that middle problem....
I don't listen to rap, never did, never will. I don't consider them any different than anyone else and it never does me joy to see someone... except Arafat and terrorists... die.
Whatever. Jimi has a good and peaceful image. The violence you cite is nothing compared to many of today's rappers. Thug rappers inciting violence etc.
Oooooh, and it's HARD to hold your tongue when someone else is just going on and ON about the "dearly departed" and you're just hoping you can hold off smacking somebody! I know what you mean!
Especially at the funeral. But I guess it's worth it not to get beat down by my mother in front of the entire family.
Mothers sure do have a way of keeping you line at times like these!
Actually, Hendrix was taken to the hospital in Denmark suffering from a survivable o'dose of liquor and sedatives. The ambulance attendants laid him on his back, he vomited and choked. The certificate lists cause of death as aspiration of vomit...or something like that. It's copied in a book I once read...and prolly available on the net.
If it happened today,, hes heirs would be fighting over the wrongful death settlement.
He was a pretty good guitar player...an early inspiration...but his stuff with Billy Cox and Beddy Miles is wailin'. The addition of time and funk discipline really pumped Jimi's jam, IMHO. "Dolly.....DAGGER!"
Jimi Hendrix is my hero, no questions. I own (literally) every single recording the man has ever made. I play "Hear my train a comin'" and "Stone Free" daily on my Strats and Les Pauls.
But I do know that one thing is for sure, ODB deserves as much comment or lack thereof (if hateful) as Jimi did when he died. Not because he was as talented as Jimi, but because he was as human as Jimi was.
There was a commercial shown during the Super Bowl where a young Jimi Hendrix chooses Pepsi over Coca Cola, suggesting that's why he became so great, he chose the right soft drink. Talk about trivializing a talent.
SWEET. Do you have any gigs yet?
Never heard of the guy but then I only listen to female R and B with rap back up, Miya, Lil Ms Dynamite ect....
Love listening to my music but don't know squat about these artists and don't care to.
However I did roll my eyes when Miya felt the need to do a concert in the nude for some lib cause.
FWIW, Jimi's music suffered while Buddy Miles was allowed to adulterate it. Once he booted that clown and re-esembled the "Experience II" with Mitch on drums, and Billy on bass, they never sounded better.
Band of Gypsies was a joke. His music was falling apart in that (horrid) era of "black-funk" experimentation. Jimi was tired and worn, and allowed Buddy to have a much larger voice than he would ever had in any period that imi was in his right mind.
"Here he comes" and "message to love (a message to the universe" was written with Billy and Mitch. and it was his tightest funk stuff to me. The jam band style funk that Jimi did with the Gypsies was pure unaulterated trash. Not worthy to be re-mentioned in my opinion. What a bad marring stain to an otherwise stellar creative journey.
I got a '72 Strat, a '61 Les Paul SG, a '65 Gibson J45, and a brandy-new Maton EBG808. I'm giggin' again after a 18 year hiatus. I got a real job, raised my family, but I'm goin' back to music. My latest guithero is Tommy Emmanuel.
Now that you mention it, Dolly and other Rainbow Bridge tunes were done with Mitchell, weren't they?
I am mad at the culture that bred and borne his lifestyle, not because he was black, or rich beyond the pale, or anything of that sort. I'm not a racist, a bigot or a homophobe, but I belong to the society that frowns on the gangster lifestyle, or the gay lifestyle, etc.
You don't praise destructive lifestyles or behaviors, and you don't praise people who willingly and knowingly under free will, participate in the destructive lifestyle or behavior.
"Doing drugs is part of the rapper lifestyle". That's bulls--- and everyone knows it.
Wow, no matter WHAT we're discussing at our house, when the musicians get together the discussion usually ends up being about some wild set or some amazing audience or some new deal that's being made. Then the new masters/CDs/bootlegs come out of the duffel-bag and everyone has to sit and listen.
At least that's the way Thanksgiving is shaping up at this point... I think my brother's band is coming, so it should be interesting. (Thanksgiving at mom's is between gigs time and milewise this year.)
Yes, Dolly was was done with Mitch but not certain about "rainbow bridge". The only thing Buddy added was the fact that he beat the drums so hard that they actually sounded like a damn machine gun in the song machine gun. But that's about it.
I play a 68' Les Paul special - for that gruff zepellin/Mayall blues sound, and I also play a 59' American Strat (much like SRV's number 1 - I had it customized to match his set up) for that plink plunk Hendrix, SRV, clapton sound. I play in the E and A chord families most of the time (old blues men never play outside).
Go listen to the band of gypsies, live at the fillmore east. It sucked ass. Compare to Isle of wWight or Woodstock or Berkelley performances, and then you tell me whick three piece was the best set up for Jimi's sound and energy.
Just from reading this thread OBwhatever sounds like a self centred jerk who took the gift of life for granted and hurt those around him.
If he was mentally ill and did not seek help or if his family did not encoourage him too get help that is not good.
he made his choices and didn't appear to respect himself or the gift of life that God gave him.
Now it's between him and his maker.
To blame it on others around him is not right either because there are bottom feeders everywhere and it is personal choice to keep them out of ones life.
Personally, I think it's wrong to talk badly about the newly dead. My usual response is God have mercy on his soul, and be with his loved ones.
Don't know anything really about him, but I always feel sad about those who burn themselves out young.
Okay then, here's a loaded quesiton - why are SO many musicians so self- and other- destructive? What is it about being able to pour your heart out on stage that seems to overwhelm all self-discipline?
Not all musicians do it - but compaired to the "regular" people I know, there is a definite pattern that emerges within the community. And it's not all attributable to "fame" - even without that, I've seen really good talent get ground up and killed by the personal issues of musicians themselves.
Is it just the self-expression part, or do certain kinds of music seem to lead to more problems?
The only musical group that doesn't seem to have this problem as much is gospel, and they seem to have bigger problems AFTER they get famous... pride I guess.
Yeah dude, that was cool. Go get that tough rapper who's in the morgue and show him who's boss. Sometimes I am simply amazed at the lack of human dignity we ascribe to. No Mr.Jones wasn't a "good" guy, but he sure wasn't the "gangster" you suppose he was either. If you had heard any of his raps, he was mainly a clown, a comedian sort of raper. I grant that he was a lousy adult, and an irresponsible one to boot, but so is my brother and many of his little friends and sure as hell won't point out that they were al "little thugs" if they were to die from some jackass decisions they made.
At the end of the day, take a deep breath and remember that this guy was a person. An irresponsible adult, and a faulted human being yes, but a human being nonetheless. He made criminal mistakes of a non violent manner for which he paid a debt to society. He then (from all accounts) got out of jail and tried to clean himself up. Sometimes people are too far gone to clean up (as this was probably the case with this guy).
Making comments such as "I won't getting all choked up over another rap assholes death" neither adds to the point or remedies the ailment that any substantive point could be invested toward. Keep that to yourself. Making that coment out loud shows a disdain that runs deeper than visceral, skin deep level into an evidence of pent up anomous. For what? Why does it matter in such a negative way to the point of evoking wordsthat vent the temptation to piss on a grave, or pile on?
I don't get. Keep in mind that I am no "bleeding heart" asshole either. I know full and well theat this guy was an irresponsible and wreckless adult, but he was also young, and I can't celebrate the death of youth in any event.
Perhaps you can, have at it.
Can't answer that.
I know I hear testimonials from pro Musicians that survive the "party life" and have hit bottom on the Christian Channel were they now perform.
I saw Candi Staton who is now has a show on TBN and she is a survivor.
Even everyday people get hooked on the Devils Dusts Meth/Cocaine/heroin and if lucky they survive.
Maybe in the music world like in Hollywood there is no spiritual support as it is liviing amongst others of the same ilk.
He did it to himself, and it's up to him and his maker to hash out a deal over.
I'm neither black or a "stuffed shirt Conservative", I have feelings for others who suffer, but I do know that drugs kill and that's what exactly happend, he didn't suffer unless someone forced him to do the drugs.
What?...............Drugs kill? Oh mi gosh, News at eleven.
However, your point had a much more personal tone top it than the sterile but friendly informercial about the dangers of drug use that you now ascribe to it.
Suit yourself, but your post and others like it came across as very "cigar in the mouth".
I feel that it's careless.