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Should Christians be celebrating Christmas at all?
12/06/04 | Perdogg

Posted on 12/06/2004 4:59:08 PM PST by Perdogg

I am a Christian, I belive in Christ. However, why do Christians knowing that Christ was born in the summer time (northern Hemisphere, celebrate Christmas in Decemeber? I know that December 25th was a holiday during the Roman Empire.

It would make sense if some astronomer could calculate when Christ was born. Also, I am sure other religions have records on when the astological event took place when Christ was Born.

I think that God intended Christmas to be treated somewhat differently than Easter. For some reason it seems in the telling of the birth of Christ, there is a lot of time discontinuity. the first three years of Christ seem to be told in a few chapters.

Easter would be probably a more sacred holiday if the date was fixed.

There is evidence that the Bible forshadowed the crucifiction in Gospel of St. Matthews. The wisemen brought the perfume, which was used in embalming.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous; Religion
KEYWORDS: archaeoastronomy; bethlehem; christ; faithandphilosophy; god; godsgravesglyphs; johanneskepler; religion; starofbethlehem; staroftheeast; starofwonder

1 posted on 12/06/2004 4:59:10 PM PST by Perdogg
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To: Perdogg
why do Christians knowing that Christ was born in the summer time (northern Hemisphere, celebrate Christmas in Decemeber?

Because if it wasn't for Christmas, we'd have NOTHING to look forward to in the winter.

2 posted on 12/06/2004 5:01:53 PM PST by JennysCool (A plan is not a litany of complaints)
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To: JennysCool

We have New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, Valentine's Day, Super Bowl Sunday, NBA All-star weekend and snow!


3 posted on 12/06/2004 5:04:16 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg
I agree the timing is wrong but to Celebrate the birth of our Savior is a privilege.

"Unto us a child is born unto us a child is given"

Handel knew the importance of His birth and wrote a masterpiece for it.
4 posted on 12/06/2004 5:05:08 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (don't be lazy look it up))
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Perdogg

Snow, ice, shoveling snow, chipping ice, frozen pipes, zero visibility, blackouts, black ice ...

I'll grant you the Super Bowl, though.


6 posted on 12/06/2004 5:07:08 PM PST by JennysCool (A plan is not a litany of complaints)
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To: JennysCool; Perdogg
Because if it wasn't for Christmas, we'd have NOTHING to look forward to in the winter.

SAD, but true.

7 posted on 12/06/2004 5:08:08 PM PST by Polybius
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To: JennysCool

How about putting snow down your girlfriends shirt or pants??? LOL! Just kidding!


8 posted on 12/06/2004 5:08:52 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg

"...summer time (northern Hemisphere, celebrate Christmas in Decemeber..."

Ummm, I'm in Penna, P, and it's WINTER, here in DECEMBER. What are you smoking?


9 posted on 12/06/2004 5:09:17 PM PST by 7.62 x 51mm ( veni vidi vino visa "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: Polybius

I think tanning beds can help that out!


10 posted on 12/06/2004 5:09:31 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: 7.62 x 51mm

You know what I mean, give me a break!


11 posted on 12/06/2004 5:10:12 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg
it seems to be more reasonable that Yeshua was conceived during Chanukkah but born during Sukkot.

When Was Yeshua Born?

Biblical Dates for Messiah's Conception and Birth

Biblical Dates for Messiah's Conception and Birth


I. The Conception of Yochanan (John the Baptist) / Luke 1:5-25

When the angel, Gavri-El (Gabriel), appeared to Zachar'yah (Zacharias) as he was ministering in the Temple, it was during the ministration of Abiyah (Abia). This order of priests ministered in the Temple the eighth week of the Hebrew year according to the ordinance of 1 Chronicles 24:10 (and according to the Talmud).  The eighth week transverses the last week of the second Hebrew month of Iyar and the first week of the third Hebrew month of Sivan, which culminates at Shavuot (Pentecost). This is the anchor point for discovering the exact time of Messiah Yeshua's birth. The angel promised Zachar'yah that his prayer had been answered, and when he went home to his wife Elisheva (Elizabeth) she conceived, it seems almost immediately. This puts the conception of Yochanan (John the Baptist) very near the time of Shavuot, the Feast of Pentecost, in the second week of the month of Sivan, the third Hebrew month.

II. The Conception of Yeshua (Jesus) / Luke 1:26-55

Then, at the close of the sixth month of Elisheva' s pregnancy the angel Gavri-El appeared to Mara (Mary). Gavri-El told Mara about Elisheva, saying "she who was called barren is six months pregnant," This would be the last of the ninth Hebrew month called Kislev at the time of Chanukah. There are 27 weeks weeks between the end of discourse of Abiyah and the start of Chanukah (Dedication), which is celebrated eight days, from Kislev 25 to Tevet 2.

Mara accepts the word of the angel concerning the conception of Messiah in her, and she immediately rushes from Natseret (Nazareth) to the home of Elisheva and Zachar'yah in the Judean mountains close to Yerushalayim, about a three days journey from Natseret. Mara was probably going there to celebrate Chanukah and to help Elisheva with her pregnancy, as well as to talk to Elisheva about the angel's visitation.

Upon Mara's greeting to Elisheva, Elisheva responds to Mara, calling her "the mother of my L-RD". This demonstrates that Mara was already pregnant with Yeshua. Thus, Yeshua was conceived at Chanukah, the Festival of Lights, for He is the Light of the World.

Sometimes the time of Chanukah falls close to Christmas. The apostate Roman church of medieval times combined the pagan winter solstice in late December with the 25th of Kislev (Chanukah) to create Christmas (Christ's Mass) on Dec- ember 25. Supposedly, this was to celebrate Christ's birth.

Yeshua is shown celebrating Chanukah in John 10:22,23. It is at this celebration that He declares "I and My Father are One" [John 10:30], which testifies to His Divine origin in His conception. It also reinforces Chanukah as the time of His conception.

Historically, then, it is more accurate to celebrate Yeshua entering the world through conception at Chanukah rather than to celebrate His birth at Christmas. As we shall show, Christmas is not the birthday of Christ. (In fact, Christmas is an invention resulting from religious compromise with pagan tradition. Christmas only has harmony with the truth, in that it falls approximately at the time of year when Yeshua was conceived by the Holy Spirit.)

IlI.The Birth ofYochanan/Luke1:56-80

Mara stayed with Elisheva for three months, which was until the birth of Yochanan. Since a full pregnancy term is 41 weeks, and 27 weeks makes up the first six months (two trimesters), which is exactly the time from the discourse of Abiyah to Chanukah, that leaves 14 weeks to accomplish the last trimester and bring the pregnancy to full term. There are exactly 14 weeks from Chanukah to Passover (Nisan 14-22). Therefore, John the Baptist was born at Passover. He was circumcised on the eighth day, which would be the last day of Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread. Gavri-EI had said that John would "go forth" in the strength and power of Elijah [Luke 1:17]. Jewish teaching was that Elijah would come again at Passover (this is still a tradition of Judaism today).

IV.The Birth of Yeshua/Luke 2

Nisan, when Yochanan was born, is the first month of the Hebrew year. As we have shown, Mara conceived six months after Elisheva conceived, which means Yeshua's birth would have to come six months after John's birth, during the seventh Hebrew month of Tishri. Since we know that John was born at Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread, we learn the time of Yeshua's birth by counting six Hebrew months from Passover. The Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on Nisan 15 and six months later Tabernacles begins on Tishri 15. Therefore, Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles).

The first day of Tabernacles is a Sabbath rest, so it fits that Yosef and Mara planned their journey to Beit-Lechem (Bethlehem) so they would finish their journey before the festival Sabbath. They found lodging just in time.

Concerning the Feast of Tabernacles, the L-RD commanded that Israel should observe it eight days. They were to build temporary dwellings called a sukkah and dwell in them [Leviticus 23:34-43]. These sukkahs were erected to house families with some bare comforts and food for the eight days. Food was placed in a stall or a crib for storage in the tabernacle. The King James Bible calls this food crib a manger. Yeshua was not born in a barn, but rather in a temporary tabernacle which had been built for the celebration. He was placed in a "manger", demonstrating in a type that He is the Bread of Life from heaven.

The eighth day, Yeshua was circumcised according to the scriptural command [Luke 2:21]. For a male, this is what accomplishes a full Hebrew birth. The Feast of Tabernacles is for exactly eight days. The first and last days are both holy Sabbaths. Yeshua was born on the first day, a holy Sabbath, and circumcised on the eighth day, a holy Sabbath. Evidently, G-d intended this entire Feast of Tabernacles to be set aside in order to accomplish and celebrate Yeshua's birth into the world.

Note that G-d provided two holy feasts that lasted eight days, Passover/Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Tabernacles. John the Baptist, the forerunner of Messiah, was born and circumcised in the eight days of the first, then six month later Yeshua, the Messiah, was born and circumcised the eight days of the second. John came in the first month of the year and Yeshua came in the seventh month. In ministry, John introduced the way through Messiah and then Yeshua perfected it, even as the first and seventh months signify.

V. Conclusion

In my opinion, this chronology provides us with the exact day of Yeshua's birth, Tishri 15, according to the Hebrew calendar. The Hebrew calendar is kept updated to this modern day, and every year the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) is absolutely set from Tishri 15 to Tishri 22. Because the Hebrew calendar is based on the course of the Moon (Lunar) and the modern calendar is based on the course of the Sun (Solar), the two move in relation to each other. This means the Feast of Tabernacles will always occur somewhere between mid-September and mid-October, but not on the exact same Gregorian dates every year. For instance, in 1995 the Feast of Tabernacles was October 9-October 17, but in 1996 the Feast of Tabernacles was September 28-October 5. While this is initially confusing to the unlearned mind, a combination Gregorian/Hebraic calendar will easily clarify how the dates relate. Many local funeral homes provide free Hebrew calendars each year showing the modern dates for the holy Feast Days (ask for a Jewish calendar).

It may help you to understand the seeming movement of Yeshua's birthday by looking at your own birthday. Even though your birthday might keep the same number year after year, the day of the week it falls on changes. In like manner, Yeshua's birthday is on the same Hebraic calendar number each year, Tishri 15, but in relation to the Gregorian calendar it changes. However, you can plan for His birthday to always occur sometime between the latter part of September and the early part of October.

The Feast of Tabernacles is a most important comemoration. Zechariah 14:16,17 tells us that one day all nations will be required by law to honor this feast. For what greater reason, than it is the birthday of the King of Kings! Why should we delay?

Our hope and prayer is that the Ekklesia will return to the roots of her faith and learn to restore the fallen foundations. May we all work to overcome the influence of pagan customs in our celebrations and become separate from this world as a holy people before our holy G-d.


Copyright © 1994 by David M. Hargis and MBI. All rights reserved.

12 posted on 12/06/2004 5:12:53 PM PST by Tamar1973 (Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats-- PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Tamar1973

then we should celebrate Christmas during late September mid October.


13 posted on 12/06/2004 5:14:46 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg

Most Christians don't glorify the date, they glorify the actual event. I don't know that there's a way to concretley prove the actual date. The fact that it's probably not actually on the right day seems irrelevant.


14 posted on 12/06/2004 5:14:56 PM PST by SoDak (home of Senator John Thune)
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To: Perdogg

we are celebrating the birth of Christ, not the day itself...

And Paul instructed Christians not to argue about feast days. If we celebrate Christ's birth, we are honoring God. If we wish to honor God by not celebrating a holiday that is secularized, we honor God also...


15 posted on 12/06/2004 5:15:20 PM PST by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Perdogg
I think people worry far too much about this. Yes, Christ was almost certainly not born on December 25, but we don't know when he was and there's no way to ever find out.

Unless someone can convince me that the actual date is important I think it's nice that we celebrate it at all.

16 posted on 12/06/2004 5:16:32 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Tamar1973
Happy Hanukkah to all!
17 posted on 12/06/2004 5:19:17 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: LadyDoc

I agree.


18 posted on 12/06/2004 5:20:39 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: SoDak
Well said. It is the celebration of the birth of Christ. It has nothing to do with the day selected for it. It would be great to know the actual date, but the event itself is what is truly important.
19 posted on 12/06/2004 5:34:02 PM PST by codyjacksmom (Proud, new 1st time grandma as of 11/07/04....now it's payback time!)
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To: Perdogg

'splain yerself, Lucy...


20 posted on 12/06/2004 5:57:50 PM PST by 7.62 x 51mm ( veni vidi vino visa "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: 7.62 x 51mm

Funny.


21 posted on 12/06/2004 6:00:20 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg
One of mankind's oldest celebrations is that concerning the time of night halfway between the last sun and the next sun during the period of continual darkness in areas above the Arctic Circle.

The Sa'ami (Laplanders) called it "Day of the Dead".

It's close to December 24, and somtimes is that day. For a variety of reasons having to do with Earth's orbit, it's inclination, etc. it is not also the "shortest day of the year", which occurs about December 21.

You find echoes of this ancient celebration in the use of Christmas Eve for primary gift-giving and feasting among the Scandinavians, and various Germanic tribes here and there.

Inasmuch as the Sa'ami are essentially the same people as the ancient Sumerians who gave us written language, and whose most fundamental stories seem to have served as the basis for much of the Bible, it seems quite appropriate to see their time of celebration maintained in Christian practice.

Undoubtedly this happened as a consequence of the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and has absolutely nothing to do with the Roman worship of Saturn, also known as Ba'al, over whose fires so many tens of thousands of infants were sacrificed throughout the Middle East in ancient times.

22 posted on 12/06/2004 7:03:04 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

Did not know that. Interesting.


23 posted on 12/06/2004 7:06:13 PM PST by Perdogg (W stands for Winner)
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To: Perdogg

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1039640/posts
Calculating Christmas: The Story Behind December 25


24 posted on 12/06/2004 7:32:15 PM PST by swmobuffalo (the only good terrorist is a dead one)
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To: Perdogg

Someone's going to be getting a pretty raw hunk of bituminous coal in their stocking this year...


Don't piss Santa off; He sees you when you're sleeping, and he knows where all the bodies are buried...


25 posted on 12/06/2004 7:39:38 PM PST by RockAgainsttheLeft04 (PUNY FREEPERS: I am the Moderator-- bow down before me and await my orders...)
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To: Perdogg

Do historical records from the time period discuss what time of year the census was held in Jerusalem?


26 posted on 12/06/2004 8:33:23 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (DUmmies: You keep visualizing a Kerry win...we'll lead the world and beat the terrorists. Mmmmkay?)
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To: Perdogg

Christmas becomes more commercialized each year. This isn't a good thing unless you'd consider it patriotic by helping our economy... it seems to be less about Christ and more about Santa, who, as you and I think of him, is a creation by Coca Cola ... commercialism at its best. Go figure. IMHO, Holidays are so warped these days.


27 posted on 12/06/2004 9:18:59 PM PST by sola fide gratia scriptura
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To: Perdogg

If you're positive that Christianity stole a pagan holiday, read this and remember the thing about repeating a lie until people believe it. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1044973/posts


28 posted on 12/07/2004 6:38:58 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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Easter would be probably a more sacred holiday if the date was fixed.
Quibble -- the date of Easter is fixed -- it's rooted in the Jewish calendar, which is lunar in orientation. I also wonder how Easter could possibly be any more sacred to Christians.

29 posted on 12/07/2004 10:32:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: Perdogg
Early Christians Hid The Origins Of The Bethlehem Star
  Posted by blam
On News/Activism 12/21/2001 5:11:00 AM PST · 155 replies · 568+ views


New Scientist | 12-21-2001 | Marcus Chown
Early Christians hid the origins of the Bethlehem star 13:15 21 December 01 Marcus Chown A US astronomer claims he has found the first mention of the star of Bethlehem outside the Bible. The reference is in a 4th-century manuscript written by a Roman astrologer and Christian convert called Firmicus Maternus. Photo: Bridgeman Art Library Michael Molnar, formerly of Rutgers University in New Jersey, is the originator of the idea that the star of Bethlehem was not a spectacular astronomical event such as a supernova or a comet but an obscure astrological one. The event would nevertheless have been ...
 

30 posted on 12/07/2004 10:38:47 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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To: blam; FairOpinion; farmfriend; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; ValerieUSA

FOLLOWING THE WISE MEN
NY Post ^ | December 23, 2003 | JOHN J. MILLER
Posted on 12/24/2003 7:16:30 AM PST by presidio9
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1046052/posts


31 posted on 12/07/2004 10:39:32 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("All I have seen teaches me trust the Creator for all I have not seen." -- Emerson)
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Note: this topic is from December 6, 2004.

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32 posted on 11/30/2010 6:37:25 PM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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To: Perdogg

because what is more important is not the exact date but the reason and the meaning, a celebration of God’s love for the world that was so great He sent His only Son.


33 posted on 11/08/2011 1:08:40 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Perdogg

Got you on my own private list for prayer.

I don’t care what you think of me, but I’m going to trundle boldly unto the Throne and present your name...

Whatever your problem is: I’ve taken whatever steps I can regarding it...

It is my prayer that the Most Utmost Highest see’s thing in similiar light as I.

In Jesus’ name, amen.......


34 posted on 11/08/2011 1:17:43 AM PST by raygun (http://bastiat.org/en/the_law DOT html)
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