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Is Terri dying a Martyr for the Faith? I believe hatred of Catholicism and Christianity is involved
March 27, 2005 | Churchillbuff

Posted on 03/27/2005 9:59:01 PM PST by churchillbuff

I know that, strictly speaking, a Christian martyr is one killed for explicitly professing Christ. But I believe Terri is being killed by people who hate Christian beliefs (and hence Christianity), and want to return us to a pre-Christian pagan "ethic." The fact that her family has sent Catholic priests and brothers, and pro-life stalwarts out to speak for them, has intensified the anti-Terry zeal of the culture-of-death supporters in the media and the liberal establishment. If you can judge a martyr by his or her enemies, the demented fiend Felos (who said yesterday that the starving Terri is "beautiful,") certainly would put Terri up there with the people fed to the lions or crucified by Nero.

As I understand it, Terri was not a regular churchgoer before her "accident," but apparently she WAS a vocal witness for an ethic of life - "Where there's life there's hope," she said, in opposition to pulling the plug on Karen Quinlan.

So is she a Martyr for the Faith, in God's eyes? And will she be viewed as such by the Christian Church as the years -- and centuries -- go on?

I close in praying for her soul, and for peace for her faithful family.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: felos; greer; notamartyr; schiavo; stupidvanity
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1 posted on 03/27/2005 9:59:01 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

the judge is a "christian"


2 posted on 03/27/2005 10:01:20 PM PST by -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-
The judge voluntarily excommunicated himself from Calvary Baptist, where he was a member for many years.

This development occurred within the past two weeks.

Judge Greer is no Christian, not even outwardly.

3 posted on 03/27/2005 10:07:56 PM PST by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: churchillbuff
"the demented fiend Felos (who said yesterday that the starving Terri is "beautiful,") . . . "

Exactly. "Beautiful?"........like all of those poor souls whom our GIs found when they liberated Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Sobebor.......Were those gaunt survivors "beautiful?"

Felos is associated with the Hemlock Society, so to him, death and dying are beautiful images. He got his own specimen, just like Joseph Mengele did, throughout the Nazi regime of human degradation. Felos has Terri in his clutches.........and thinks it's beautiful, while her brother, sister and parents describe her as resembling an Auschwitz prisoner.

The wicked triumvirate of M.Schaivo, Greer and Felos are the angels of death down in Florida. How sick it makes me, just knowing how ecstatic those three will be when this poor dear young woman dies and it is official.

THEY win. Terri and her parents lose completely - a crushing, thumping, disastrous defeat.......just because these three evil men have their own agendas.....each one different, but all deadly.

4 posted on 03/27/2005 10:09:17 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: churchillbuff

A Martyr for the Faith?

More like the poster child for humanity's failure to value life over personal agendas and the inaction of those in power to do what is right regardless of those agendas and unjust "laws".

God be with Terri Schindler.


5 posted on 03/27/2005 10:10:18 PM PST by Outland (Some people are damned lucky that I don't have Bill Gates' checkbook.)
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To: churchillbuff

"Is Terri dying a Martyr for the Faith? I believe hatred of Catholicism and Christianity is involved"

You are absolutely right.


6 posted on 03/27/2005 10:11:57 PM PST by mjtobias (Michael et al. aren't trying to starve Terri because she's dying, but because she isn't. - supercat)
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To: churchillbuff

I am a fundamentalist Christian. I believe it is a greater sin to torture her for another 15 years than it is to help her die.

It's not political. I do not serve Satan. It is what I would want done for myself and I believe in the Golden Rule.

In Jesus name I profess this to be my honest belief.


7 posted on 03/27/2005 10:12:52 PM PST by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: Lexinom; churchillbuff
Read this!

Political corruption alleged in Schiavo case
Criminal probes reportedly shut down despite investigators' concerns

Posted: March 26, 2005

1:00 a.m. Eastern

By Diana Lynne

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

"As Terri Schiavo enters what are thought to be her last hours of life, allegations of political corruption and obstruction of justice on the part of state officials raise questions as to whether the brain-injured woman's court-ordered death by starvation might serve to cover up crimes committed against her."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43509

8 posted on 03/27/2005 10:13:00 PM PST by CHARLITE (Women are powerful; freedom is beautiful.........and STUPID IS FOREVER!)
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To: churchillbuff; MeekOneGOP; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; Happy2BMe; potlatch; Smartass; FairOpinion; ...


mega-bump



dead center


9 posted on 03/27/2005 10:16:53 PM PST by devolve (WWII : http://pro.lookingat.us/RealHeros.html James Bond - 007 : http://pro.lookingat.us/007.5.html)
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To: mercy
In Jesus name I profess this to be my honest belief."""

You don't have to say, "In Jesus name," because I believe it's your honest belief. But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus didn't believe in killing innocent people. Not by lethal injection. Not by starving them. We Christians believe it was God - Jesus - who had a talk with Moses on Sanai and gave the commandment against murder (along with the other nine)

This explains why, although the pagan world was into killing the unfit (by starvation, especially with newborns), where Christianity took hold, euthanasia stopped. If you call yourself a Christian, you need to consider whether you really want to embrace the ethical system of Sparta and other pagan societies, over the pro-life ethic introduced to the Gentile world by Christianity.

10 posted on 03/27/2005 10:19:45 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

I don't buy your argument. Perhaps you are a Roman Catholic. I take my doctrine from the Bible not from dubious church traditions of men. Nobody is murdering Terri Schiavo and your use of the word is offensive and fanatic.


11 posted on 03/27/2005 10:27:32 PM PST by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: churchillbuff
But I believe Terri is being killed by people who hate Christian beliefs (and hence Christianity), and want to return us to a pre-Christian pagan "ethic."

You don't happen to know of any other time and place in which this was attempted do you? And similar circumstances to the present ones that may or may not have accompanied it?

12 posted on 03/27/2005 10:28:43 PM PST by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: mercy
"Nobody is murdering Terri Schiavo"

No sigle body perhaps, but many instead. It's murder nonetheless.
13 posted on 03/27/2005 10:34:28 PM PST by Outland (Some people are damned lucky that I don't have Bill Gates' checkbook.)
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To: mercy
Nobody is murdering Terri Schiavo"""""""

Then what do you call the deliberate starvation of her, that Judge Greer has ordered. He has ordered that her feeding tube be pulled - and that no food or water be administered orally, either. That's murder, my friend. And the cheering that's coming from the anti-christian MSM makes me want to consider Terri as a martyr. We'll be long dead before the Christian Church has settled on whether it agrees with me.

14 posted on 03/27/2005 10:36:51 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology."

Scientology Founder: L. Ron Hubbard

15 posted on 03/27/2005 10:37:37 PM PST by demlosers (Soylent Green is made in Florida)
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To: Outland

It is not. You slander part of the Body of Christ. It is not murder to allow someone to die after FIFTEEN YEARS in a vegitative state. Your contention is outrageous and illogical. Sick.


16 posted on 03/27/2005 10:38:56 PM PST by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: churchillbuff
You've pretty much nailed it. This has nothing to do with laws or the constitution or a "right to die". This has everything to do with rubbing Christians', Conservatives', and Republicans' noses in the dirt.

These people are so full of hatred that they are willing to send an innocent woman to her death because in their minds we will have won some sort of victory if Terri is allowed to live.

And they can't stand the thought of that. So Terri must die to preserve whatever self-esteem they have left.

They're pathetic.

17 posted on 03/27/2005 10:40:59 PM PST by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all)
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To: Lexinom

The Holy Innocents have their own feast day, as martyrs. They were all infants, who knew nothing of Christ, or the Jewish faith, either.

Terri has received Communion with obvious joy, showing that she believes, and she is indeed a martyr for the Catholic Faith because her murderers are motivated by a hatred for the Faith.


18 posted on 03/27/2005 10:41:17 PM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: mercy

Don't like Catholics, eh?


19 posted on 03/27/2005 10:42:23 PM PST by swordfish71 (There is no storm like the PERFECT ROVIAN STORM!)
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To: mercy
It is not murder to allow someone to die after FIFTEEN YEARS in a vegitative state."""

They're not "allowing her to die" They're starving her to death. By the way - Mr. "Christian" -- Jesus encountered people with various disabilities throughout his ministry. How many did he kill to put out of their misery?

20 posted on 03/27/2005 10:45:56 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: Arthur McGowan
That may very well be true. She is certainly being offered up as an oblation on the altar of Molech for champions of so-called "quality-of-life".

The irony I was hoping someone would pick up was the desire of many under the Third Reich to cast off from Germany all vestiges of Christianity and return to the pre-Christian barbarian era religion, with Germanic gods and rituals. This accompanied the horrific acts of genocide in the name of nationalism and "science" that will forever mar that murderous regime.

21 posted on 03/27/2005 10:47:19 PM PST by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: churchillbuff
Members of a group calling itself the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigades seized control of the microphones and blasted Terry as a "Christian fascist thug" trying to interfere in "the most intimate affairs of life and death."
22 posted on 03/27/2005 10:49:00 PM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: mercy
If you think this is a mercy killing, then you would have to believe in the following...

1) That Terri truly is in a PVS.
Many have come forth and said that she is not. Therefore, there is uncertainty. You either don't believe this or you prefer to err on the side of death.

2) That Terri truly expressed her wish to die in a situation such as this.
This was merely Michael's hear-say and that of his family. Much information has exposed that is dubious at best. Therefore again, we have uncertainty, but also again, some would prefer to err on the side of death.

If my contentions are illogical, yours are plainly naive and all-trusting in Michael and his band of death merchants.

I think perhaps you, like many, don't like to see someone else in a bad condition because it causes you personal pain, regardless of how that person actually feels. If you can't stand the pain, then look away. But don't inflict your will or your pain on others.
23 posted on 03/27/2005 10:50:35 PM PST by Outland (Some people are damned lucky that I don't have Bill Gates' checkbook.)
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To: Outland

Guess what? I absolutely believe in #1 and #2 because that is what all the evidence says and all the judges have found.

You just can't handle the truth.

Mercy killing is when someone is alive.


24 posted on 03/27/2005 10:55:48 PM PST by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: churchillbuff

Another brilliant arguement. Jesus came to heal. He could have healed Terri if he wanted to. God gives us the right to create life and to take it away in certain circumstances. There is no direct or even vague teaching anywhere in the Bible that extraordinary measures must be taken to keep people in vegetative states alive for decades. Human decency, and we ARE decent, dictates that we take every reasonable measure and those measures were taken with Terri.

My conscious is clear before God. Let her go.


25 posted on 03/27/2005 11:00:27 PM PST by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: mercy; churchillbuff
mercy: "It is not murder to allow someone to die after FIFTEEN YEARS in a vegitative state. Your contention is outrageous and illogical. Sick."

I'm amazed that you post on FR and still don't seem to know the facts. She was not dying, she was not in a coma, she was just as alive as you or I, so she is not being "allowed to die", she is being actively killed.

You claim she is in a vegetative state, that is a lie, and over 30 doctors and a number of nurses or CNA's have said she isn't. You are supporting starving someone to death on the hearsay of an adulterous husband who only made his claim AFTER receiving the money he sued for. Use your noodle, a reasonable person would know that in a case rife with problems, unanswered questions, conflicts of interest, etc, you don't err on the side of death. Or is that what you believe?

churchillbuff: "By the way - Mr. "Christian" -- Jesus encountered people with various disabilities throughout his ministry. How many did he kill to put out of their misery?"

Great point, thank you. Jesus is a healer, he didn't euthanize the unwanted.

26 posted on 03/27/2005 11:07:42 PM PST by incindiary
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To: mercy
Jesus came to heal.""""

I knew you couldn't give me an example of Jesus doing what you want the "doctors" to do to Terri - kill her.

27 posted on 03/27/2005 11:07:44 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: mercy
"Guess what? I absolutely believe in #1 and #2"

Then you must also believe that judges are never wrong; judges can never be corrupt; doctors are never wrong; doctors can not be corrupt; the news media is always accurate and complete.

Why do you choose to believe only those doctors (which were hand-picked by MS and Felos) and not those who supported the Schindlers?

Is it not conceivable to you that fowl play exists in this case? There is plenty of information that says otherwise.

Florida politics has a long history of a good ol' boy network that watches each other's backs.
28 posted on 03/27/2005 11:08:13 PM PST by Outland (Some people are damned lucky that I don't have Bill Gates' checkbook.)
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To: mercy

"My conscious is clear before God. Let her go."

I believe that is exactly what Greer and Felos are saying to themselves.


29 posted on 03/27/2005 11:11:17 PM PST by Santana (Proud aunt of niece serving in Iraq)
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To: mercy

** You just can't handle the truth. **

Mercy, if you go here:

http://www.lldf.org/pdf/summer2001.pdf

or type in "Ronald Cranford" (Felos' expert witness who declared Terri PVS) AND "Robert Wendland" on google, you will find that Dr. Cranford also diagnosed Mr. Wendland, who scooted around unaided in a motorized wheelchair as PVS.

Mr Wendland also bowled a 175, was able to communicate by yes, and no, identify colored blocks, and hand them to his therapist.

He was able to write the letter R, and do some other tasks.

Dr. Cranford described Mr. Wendland as a trained animal. He stated his feeding tube should be pulled, and his wife Rose should be able to move on with her life.

I am not quite ready to agree with a Dr. who identifies someone who go where he wants in a motorized wheelchair and can bowl a 175 as PVS.

Now that you have this information, are you still going to believe the "evidence" of Terri's diagnosis as PVS by Dr. Cranford?


30 posted on 03/27/2005 11:16:07 PM PST by sockmonkey
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To: churchillbuff; devolve; Grampa Dave; MeekOneGOP; potlatch; ntnychik
The Terry Schindler-Schiavo Snuff Film is Rosemary's Baby for the new millenium.
31 posted on 03/27/2005 11:16:10 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: mercy
"God gives us the right to create life"

No.. God gave us the ability to pass life on. We do not "create" life and no recorded account exists where a human being has "created" life.

Life is passed on when one cell multiplies or when one cell combines with another to multiply. To say that life is "created" infers to say that it stops at some point, then starts at another. The act of life is a continuous chain from cell to cell.
32 posted on 03/27/2005 11:17:31 PM PST by Outland (Some people are damned lucky that I don't have Bill Gates' checkbook.)
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To: Lexinom

it was well reported that greer's church threw him out.

check your info


33 posted on 03/27/2005 11:26:42 PM PST by kingattax (If you're cross-eyed and dyslexic, can you read all right ?)
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To: kingattax

Not what I read. At any rate, he's out.


34 posted on 03/27/2005 11:31:13 PM PST by Lexinom (You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him.)
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To: churchillbuff

Well, Felos saying he had never seen Terri so beautiful is, no pun intended, a dead give away. He's a sick and demented death merchant. That much is becoming widely known.

Felos is most responsible for her impending death. Not Greer, not the courts, not even Michael Schiavo, and most certainly not Terri or elected Republicans.

And I think that anybody who smears those who are troubled by what has transpired feed George Felos, making him and his kind fatter. Among them and their kind you'll find the bigotry and hate you speak of.


35 posted on 03/27/2005 11:34:54 PM PST by Kryptonite
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To: churchillbuff

Hey Ward Churchill buff. We all know your feels on this case and have heard you for the last weeks. Lame


36 posted on 03/27/2005 11:37:46 PM PST by Echo Talon (http://echotalon.blogspot.com)
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To: DaveTesla

Many around here are attacking Terry as a Christian fascist thug as well, to paraphrase.

The Christians are being fed to the lions.


37 posted on 03/27/2005 11:44:11 PM PST by Kryptonite
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To: churchillbuff; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; Smartass; FairOpinion; Grampa Dave


Two fishes and five barley for everyone.....

.....except "mercy".....


38 posted on 03/27/2005 11:53:27 PM PST by devolve (WWII : http://pro.lookingat.us/RealHeros.html James Bond - 007 : http://pro.lookingat.us/007.5.html)
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To: Kryptonite
I have also noted a lot of people calling themselves
Christan clammering for or justifying the starvation of Terri.
Jesus healed the sick and even the dead.
I don't recall him mercy killing anyone.
This forum is starting to surprise me with
all the ani-religious, anti Jeb Bush anti
Republican rhetoric.
39 posted on 03/28/2005 12:10:49 AM PST by DaveTesla (You can fool some of the people some of the time......)
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To: mercy

Only one judge actually made findings of fact in this case. If you want to base your belief on the finding of one judge, go ahead, but don't fool yourself into thinking other justices involved believe him - they've been forced by operation of law to not overrule him on his findings of fact.

This tragedy could also be entitled: "Kill her now and ask questions later."


40 posted on 03/28/2005 12:11:04 AM PST by Kryptonite
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To: devolve
I believe Christianity is a small part. The main culprit is the zeal for Judicial Independence.   In a nutshell, the power of judicial tyranny is slowly but surely destroying America.   The timing of Terri Schiavo being tortured by starvation and Easter is ironic, but a true reality show.   Roman soldiers guarded Jesus so no one could help him, that mirroring the same with the Pinellas County Sheriffs guarding Terri...so no one could help her!!!

 

41 posted on 03/28/2005 1:34:17 AM PST by Smartass (Si vis pacem, para bellum - Por el dedo de Dios se escribió)
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To: Smartass; PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP; Happy2BMe; potlatch; ntnychik; FairOpinion; Grampa Dave; ...

FELON & FELON - LLC

YOU ARE IN GOOD HANDS

42 posted on 03/28/2005 1:53:32 AM PST by devolve (WWII : http://pro.lookingat.us/RealHeros.html James Bond - 007 : http://pro.lookingat.us/007.5.html)
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

The "judge" is subhuman garbage.


43 posted on 03/28/2005 1:57:17 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• Veni • Vidi • Vino • Visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
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To: -=[_Super_Secret_Agent_]=-

"the judge is a "christian"

"By their fruits, ye shall know them." Enough said..


44 posted on 03/28/2005 3:05:53 AM PST by jazzlite (esat)
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To: mjtobias

Yes, she will be a martyr..I do not know the Catholic religion, but she perhaps might also make Sainthood because of her suffering...


45 posted on 03/28/2005 3:07:14 AM PST by jazzlite (esat)
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To: mercy

I am a fundamentalist Christian. I believe it is a greater sin to torture her for another 15 years than it is to help her die.

"It's not political. I do not serve Satan. It is what I would want done for myself and I believe in the Golden Rule.

In Jesus name I profess this to be my honest belief."

Try to convince others..You will not convince many of the posters here..


46 posted on 03/28/2005 3:09:29 AM PST by jazzlite (esat)
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To: churchillbuff
" But I believe Terri is being killed by people who hate Christian beliefs (and hence Christianity)"

I used to think that the following meant spirtual death but I no longer think so:

Proverbs 8:36: But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

47 posted on 03/28/2005 3:18:16 AM PST by Proud_texan (They that hate Me love death.)
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To: churchillbuff

I am a Christian, but I believe feeding tubes used for extended periods of time is prolonging death. Paul wrote that death had lost its sting.

Not all Christians are backing the hysteria to keep Terri alive at all costs.


48 posted on 03/28/2005 3:45:28 AM PST by thinkingman129 (questioning clears the way to understanding.)
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To: churchillbuff

Do you know why God gave the Israelites the Ten Commandments? It wasn't because they would be able to follow them. People are sinful. God gave the Israelites the *rules* because they asked for them, they wanted *rules* to follow. So, God gave them *rules,* knowing they'd break them in some way or another, at least daily. It ensured they came to realize they needed a Saviour.
Sinful people need a Savior.


49 posted on 03/28/2005 3:49:05 AM PST by thinkingman129 (questioning clears the way to understanding.)
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To: mercy; churchillbuff

Terri Schiavo has not expressed a faith in Jesus Christ, yet it is true her parents have claimed she is of the Catholic faith.

Terri Schiavo is not a martyr, no matter how she dies.

You are not acknowledging, either, that many Christians do NOT side with the Schindlers in this matter at all.


50 posted on 03/28/2005 3:51:10 AM PST by thinkingman129 (questioning clears the way to understanding.)
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