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Need help with a liberal....ugh

Posted on 07/05/2005 2:25:58 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname

Today I got into a discussion with a liberal who announced to the two of us who were working out at the gym this morning that "George Bush is an idiot." I kept my mouth shut for a while and then decided to let her know that I like GWB. That didn't deter her. She repeated that he was an idiot and then tried to set me straight.

One of the things she said was (and this is where I need your help) that all of New England voted for Kerry and now all the funding has been cut for veterans hospitals in New England. She insists that it's the doing of GWB. What is she talking about? I've never heard anything about funding for veterans hospitals being cut for blue states. Can anyone help me here? I just might run into her again and don't want to be clueless.

I did look her incredulously and say, "And do you really believe that GWB did that to get back at the blue states?" and she said, "Of course he did."


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bluestates; newengland; veteranshospitals

1 posted on 07/05/2005 2:26:01 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Liberals don't understand truth-it means nothing to them because it totally negates their agenda.


2 posted on 07/05/2005 2:27:50 PM PDT by RockinRight (Democrats - Trying to make an a$$ out of America since 1933)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

I would tell her that W is after individual voters, not states, and the word that you've heard is that her name in the short list. She should move to Canada immediately.


3 posted on 07/05/2005 2:28:29 PM PDT by Bosco (Remember how you felt on September 11?)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Don't even try to argue with this liberal. She's a closed-mind loser, like the rest of them. You can always tell a liberal, but you can't tell them much.


4 posted on 07/05/2005 2:28:53 PM PDT by billnaz (What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

She's misinformed (on so many things) - W's GPA, by the way, was significantly higher than Kerry's. "Bush is dumb" is the refuge of somebody dumber.


5 posted on 07/05/2005 2:29:09 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

NEVER believe stuff like this. She probably believes that the election was fixed, too. It is hard to argue facts with libs, since they just make them up as they go along. Tell her to get proof that doesn't come from DU or moveon.org.


6 posted on 07/05/2005 2:29:28 PM PDT by America_Right (I serve the cause of freedom. What do you do? -SECDEF Heller from "24")
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To: RockinRight

Why of course he did it to get back at the blue states. And he's arranging an earthquake so California will slide into the ocean. The resulting tsunami will circle the globe and is aimed at New York. He's a clever man, our President.


7 posted on 07/05/2005 2:29:45 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!")
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To: Tennessee_Bob

He can do all that...yet he's an idiot. Typical liberal logic.


8 posted on 07/05/2005 2:30:30 PM PDT by RockinRight (Democrats - Trying to make an a$$ out of America since 1933)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
I did look her incredulously and say, "And do you really believe that GWB did that to get back at the blue states?" and she said, "Of course he did."

My advice, take away her Kool-aid, otherwise save your efforts for the possible, LOL.

9 posted on 07/05/2005 2:30:37 PM PDT by Mister Baredog ((Minuteman at heart, couch potato in reality))
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

All of New England didn't vote for Kerry. Okay, who's got the county-by-county map?


10 posted on 07/05/2005 2:32:34 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Copyright 2005 Star Tribune
Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN)

June 6, 2005, Monday, Metro Edition

SECTION: NEWS; Pg. 1A

LENGTH: 1460 words

HEADLINE: More vets waiting for care;
Advocates: Funding hasn't kept pace with need

BYLINE: Paul Sand; Staff Writer

DATELINE: Washington, D.C.

BODY:
On a recent visit to the Minneapolis Veterans Medical Center, Carsten Watts, an Army veteran from Farmington, didn't see a doctor until three hours after his appointment time.

"The specialty clinics are really understaffed," said Watts, 34, who suffers from chronic lower back pain brought on by a military training exercise. "It's nothing to sit there all day waiting to get seen."

Veterans hospitals are being pressed with an aging veteran population and new soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan. Some veterans groups say that while federal funding has increased, it has not kept pace with the growing need. They say they're hearing reports of patients waiting longer for appointments and seeking specialized medical attention elsewhere.

In April, Sen. Mark Dayton's office released research from the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee that shows the Minneapolis Veterans Medical Center will have a $7 million budget shortfall this year, while the St. Cloud VA Medical Center will be short $4 million. Administrators at both facilities say it's too early to predict such numbers.

And VA relief may be on the horizon, as the House passed a bill May 26 boosting funding for veterans health care by about $1.6 billion.

The bill, still awaiting approval by the Senate, would increase funds for mental health care, research and facilities, among other things.

Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson said President Bush has "kept faith with his promise" to care for veterans by increasing funding for the VA system each year since taking office. Since 2001, when Bush took office, VA funding has increased by nearly 40 percent.

But Rep. Collin Peterson, D-Minn., said the current funding and the additional amount provided by the bill falls short. Too many veterans aren't getting the services they need, said Peterson, a former member of the Veterans Affairs Committee.

"Those who live in rural areas have to drive too far and wait too long for the care that they need," he said. "I'm surprised that at a time when our troops are in harm's way, the leadership in Congress decided not to provide more funding for veterans programs."

'We'll get through'

In both Minneapolis and St. Cloud, administrators say they don't know yet how the bill could affect their hospitals.

"Until Congress passes a budget, we don't know what we're working with," said Joan Vincent, a spokeswoman for the St. Cloud hospital. "It's tough to speculate about it."

And Jeffrey Phillips, communications director for the Veterans Affairs Committee, maintained that the veterans who need care the most, such as those who were injured in combat, are receiving it.

"We're not funded for every veteran who walks in the door and wants to receive care," Phillips said. "But we believe the system is fully funded for those higher-priority groups."

When the Senate voted in May for an $82 billion emergency war spending bill, Democrats tried unsuccessfully to include about $2 billion for the veterans system. The amendment was defeated on a near party-line vote in the Senate. The House also approved the bill without any emergency funding for veterans.

Dayton, D-Minn., who voted for the amendment, called the Senate's failed efforts to get more funding for veterans services "immoral" and "hypocritical."

"Veterans are men and women who served our country in times of need, and for us to turn our backs on them in their time of need is fundamentally wrong," he said.

Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., who voted against the amendment, said the "emergency supplemental funding should go to support our troops in harm's way today who needed this funding immediately."

Steven P. Kleinglass, director at the Minneapolis veterans hospital, said it would be "premature" to comment on any budget problems. Barry Bahl, director of the St. Cloud hospital, said if the facility has a shortfall this year it will be less than $1 million.

"That's not terribly troublesome at this point," he said.

The Minneapolis hospital has been designated as one of only four in the nation to receive severely injured soldiers from Iraq. No additional funding has been provided to care for these patients, Kleinglass said. He said these soldiers require more care than others patients and are "taxing the staff a lot."

Kleinglass said he couldn't comment on Watts' three-hour wait specifically because of patient confidentiality rules and because he doesn't know the details of the case.

"If he was scheduled for 10 o'clock in the morning and wasn't seen until 1, that's a long wait and we're not happy about that wait," he said.

Kleinglass and Bahl said officials at both facilities won't be cutting any services this year, and will delay purchasing medical equipment if they face budget shortfalls at the end of the year.

"I think this is a tougher year than other years have been," Bahl said. "One way or another through swapping of dollars we'll get through."

Dick Flanagan, spokesman for the veterans group AMVETS, said that although the strategy of diverting funds away from certain purchases can keep the hospitals running, it does nothing to solve the system's long-term funding issues.

"It's kind of like robbing Peter to pay Paul," he said.

More use services

The number of veterans seeking services from VA hospitals has jumped from about 3.9 million in the 2001 fiscal year to a projected 5.2 million for this year, or about 33 percent, according to the VA. In the same time period, total VA funding has increased from $48 billion to $67 billion, or about 40 percent.

Jimmy Norris, chief financial officer of the Veterans Health Administration, which oversees the hospitals and clinics, said the organization is "managing pretty tightly."

"I think generally our funding and our workload is generally aligned," he said, but added, "obviously everyone could always use more money."

At the Minneapolis hospital, the numbers of veterans seeking services has jumped from about 59,000 in 2001 to an expected 80,700 this year, according to the facility. Funding has also increased in that time from $292 million to more than $383 million.

The St. Cloud hospital has seen its patient load increase from about 17,500 in 2001 to more than 30,700 expected this year, Vincent said. In the same period, funding for the facility has increased from almost $70 million to $95.5 million, she said.

Watts, who was on active Army duty from 1994 to 1998, hit the windshield of the Humvee he was riding in during a 1996 training exercise after it hit a rut left behind by a tank. The impact probably popped one of his vertebrae out of place, he said. He's had two surgeries, one at the Minneapolis veterans hospital, but is unable to return to work as a computer repair technician because of his injury.

Watts, who is married and has three children, visits the Minneapolis veterans hospital every three months for his depression. He said he has no problems getting appointments for mental health check-ups, but he's had many problems getting timely treatment for his back.

"They don't have the most comfortable chairs there," he said. "With me, every 10 to 15 minutes I have to get up and move [or] my legs fall asleep. It makes for a long painful day."

Washington Bureau Correspondent Melissa Lee contributed to this report.

VA FUNDING, PATIENT VISITS ON THE RISE

Funding for the Veterans Affairs has increased in the last five years, but so has the number of military veterans visiting the system's hospitals seeking medical treatment. Officials say an aging veteran population and an influx of new soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan are behind the increase in patient vists.

.

2001 2002 2003 2004 2005

Funding

National $21 $22.6 $25.4 $28.2 $30

billion billion billion billion billion

Minneapolis Veterans $292.2 $298.2 $323.2 $363.7 $383.7

Medical Center million million million million million

St. Cloud Veterans $69.9 $73 $77.9 $88.3 $95.5

Medical Center million million million million million

Unique patient visits

National 3.9 4.3 4.5 4.7 5.2

million million million million million*

Minneapolis 59,079 63,028 67,189 73,707 80,749*

St. Cloud 17,525 20,493 24,857 28,195 30,755*

* Projected Note: Years are fiscal years

Sources: Department of Veterans Affairs, Minneapolis Veterans

Medical Center, St. Cloud veterans hospital spokeswoman


11 posted on 07/05/2005 2:32:45 PM PDT by Zeppelin (If we lose the war on terror... http://www.ebaumsworld.com/waronterrorism.html)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Make HER prove it. (Demand she cite the name of the legislation or executive order.) Anytime a liberal makes a ridiculous charge, he or she should be the one immediately put on defensive. You can COUNT on the fact that she can't back it up.


12 posted on 07/05/2005 2:33:16 PM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

I think what she's referring to is the $1B shortfall in the VA budget that Pres. Bush is trying to get for the VA. Besides, the VA doesn't cut budgets in certain states, it is like any other government agency, it goes across the board all over the country.

Congress establishes the damn budget not the President. I have a co-worker who's a lib and he never misses a chance to blame the Pres. for anything. Tell the pinko to get her congresscritters to stop the pork and give it to the VA or she can always send in more of her income to the gov't.

It's all Booooosshees fault!!!!!

Friggin', flamin' idiots!

Good luck with this one if encounter her again.

Cheers!


13 posted on 07/05/2005 2:33:16 PM PDT by SZonian (Tagline???? I don't need no stinkin' tagline!)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

You can remind her that Kerry received lower grades in school than Bush. Bush went on to receive his post graduate training at Harvard. Kerry was too stupid to get in and had to settle for Georgetown. Remind her that for all her "informed intellect" she still prefers the stupider candidate.


14 posted on 07/05/2005 2:33:51 PM PDT by Sgt_Schultze
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To: Tennessee_Bob
Why of course he did it to get back at the blue states. And he's arranging an earthquake so California will slide into the ocean. The resulting tsunami will circle the globe and is aimed at New York. He's a clever man, our President.

And wait'll they get a load of what Karl ("The Evil Genius") Rove has planned for 'em!

15 posted on 07/05/2005 2:34:04 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

The "idiot" has degress from Harvard and Yale. Where'd your lib friend graduate from?


16 posted on 07/05/2005 2:34:56 PM PDT by thoughtomator (The legislative process is like the digestive process, same end product)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Ask the genius just how intelligent she is, then ask some questions that pointedly make her life look like a mess...


17 posted on 07/05/2005 2:34:57 PM PDT by HitmanLV
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To: thoughtomator

degress = degrees


18 posted on 07/05/2005 2:35:14 PM PDT by thoughtomator (The legislative process is like the digestive process, same end product)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
Bah. I'm not going around searching for it. But the basic gyst of the plan is that as the WW2 generation dies out the demographics of veterans needing care as changed across the country. So to provide full coverage they built many VA hospitals in areas that weren't served and closed down some VA hospitals where there were already other VA hospitals covering the area (something like where there were 2 hospitals in a 50 square mile area). They built more VA hospitals than were closed down. It wouldn't surpise me to learn that many of the excess hospitals were in the New England area, and the new ones built are in more remote areas, but that is just a matter of coincidence. This was dealt with when Michael Moore's "documentary" dealt with the same lie, "Closing VA hospitals" without mentioning new ones built.

If that doesn't deter her just mention that the budget for the VA has increased something like 48% since George W. Bush took office (slightly outpacing the increases of other government agencies ;)

19 posted on 07/05/2005 2:35:35 PM PDT by chudogg (www.chudogg.blogspot.com)
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To: mewzilla

20 posted on 07/05/2005 2:36:55 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

In any case, Congress does the appropriating, not the President.


21 posted on 07/05/2005 2:37:48 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
I did look her incredulously and say, "And do you really believe that GWB did that to get back at the blue states?" and she said, "Of course he did."

Dubya has become the Beelzebub of the left, dispatching hordes of lesser demons to do his evil behest, and nothing is beneath him (including remote control-piloting planes into the WTC and Pentagon, which were rigged with explosives to make sure that the evidence went down with the buildings). Some on the left can't quite swallow that one, so they accuse Bush of being alternatively clueless ("Did you see the look on his face when they told him about the planes crashing into the World Trade Center!"), dilatory ("Do you know that even after he was told about the terrorist attack he went on reading a children's book!"), to self-absorbed and uncaring ("And then he ran off to a military base with his tail between his legs rather than taking charge!").

The left has become so predictably anti-Bush that it almost isn't even fun anymore.

22 posted on 07/05/2005 2:38:00 PM PDT by kezekiel
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To: billnaz
Yep. That "Bush is an idiot" line proves that she is a lost cause. She is willing to believe, and make up, any lie about the President.

The left is like a pack of rabid dogs.

23 posted on 07/05/2005 2:38:04 PM PDT by Paul Atreides (The Democrats have the right mascot; everyone knows what comes out of an ass)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
This is so tiring.

The Congress determines spending policies. Though the president submits a budget to Congress (a mandate of Congress!), it is the Congress that decides what will be funded and how much each line item will receive.

There is no line-item veto. The President signs it or vetoes the budget.

Explain to your acquaintance that she should first understand basic federal budget derivation and function before exposing her own ignorance or outright stupidity by accusing the President of something in which he plays only an advisory role.

Finally, ask her for the proof of budget cuts for veterans' services. She may just slink away, having gained an unsupported talking point from a friend or DU, and has only a hatred of America and George Bush and Republicans and Christians and patriotism.

If she votes Democrat, all of that is very likely.

Don't worry about getting in her face about things, if you have the facts. She may hate you for your statements of fact, but she'll hate you anyway, if you know the truth and cannot live in her parallel liberal universe.

24 posted on 07/05/2005 2:38:20 PM PDT by TheGeezer
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To: Tennessee_Bob

It's KARL ROVE, dammit. It's KARL ROVE who is the genius. Got it? Good.


25 posted on 07/05/2005 2:39:31 PM PDT by TheGeezer
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To: Paul Atreides
Yep. That "Bush is an idiot" line proves that she is a lost cause.

And resorting to ad hominems is not the sign of a well-reasoned argument.

26 posted on 07/05/2005 2:39:41 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: mewzilla

I love how they all freely admit that they got slapped around by an idiot....twice!


27 posted on 07/05/2005 2:41:14 PM PDT by Paul Atreides (The Democrats have the right mascot; everyone knows what comes out of an ass)
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To: Paul Atreides

That just never occurs to them, does it? ROTF!!


28 posted on 07/05/2005 2:43:32 PM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Tell her that you took her remarks seriously, thought it over, and than wrote Dubya a letter demanding that he immediately defund PBS and give the money to the VA ... then stand back about twenty feet and watch her head explode.


29 posted on 07/05/2005 2:48:13 PM PDT by Mister Sophisticate
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
Liberal helper.
30 posted on 07/05/2005 2:48:14 PM PDT by cripplecreek (I zot trolls for fun and profit.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
Bullcrap. Here's the VA budget with expenditures for last year and estimates for the present and future listed for each state. The numbers only go up. See Expenditures By State.

http://www.va.gov/budget/summary/index.htm

Unfortunately it isn't easy to find their total budget for last year. This year is over $70 billion. I believe Bush was initially raising the budget by $750 million, but that has been increased even further.

Don't tell her this, though, because she'll either ignore you or be saddened that her chance at martyrdom has been snatched away, at least until the next fool notion comes up.

31 posted on 07/05/2005 2:51:05 PM PDT by ahayes
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

I don't care HOW good she looks in spandex.
DO NOT DATE THAT WOMAN!!!
Just trust me on this, OK?


32 posted on 07/05/2005 2:51:53 PM PDT by frithguild (If I made one mistake, it was that I was too cooperative and waited too long to go on the offensive.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
Liberals, as a matter of policy, lie to achieve their version of a better world. Do not take anything they say for granted. If they say it vociferously or in an intimidating manner, that's another clue they are lying. Make them prove it. Anything assert as a fact, just say you don't believe that. Make them convince you.

You won't convince them. It's enough to speak up and say you disagree, you support the president, don't think he's stupid, and so forth. That will set a little seed of doubt in their mind, although they will never admit it.

33 posted on 07/05/2005 3:04:55 PM PDT by Marylander
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To: All

Thanks for all the help, everyone! This isn't the only issue that came up...she talked about health care, the war, the economy, etc. Every time I started to make my point she interrupted me and went on to something new. I left there with my blood pressure up.

I got so many replies on this thread that I have no idea how I'd ping everyone with my thanks. I never have understood how to do that. Somehow I don't think that typing "all" into the box pings everyone on the thread who replied to me. That sure would be a nifty feature, though. :-)

Candi


34 posted on 07/05/2005 3:14:02 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

"One of the things she said was...that all of New England voted for Kerry and now all the funding has been cut for veterans hospitals in New England."

It's difficult to debate with a fool because the discussion can only become a "fools argument". Her assertion that "...all of New England voted for Kerry" is plainly false. Don't carry the discussion beyond that point. Ask for the voting stats per state.

Re: GWB cutting funds for Vet hospitals, remind her that to avoid the SIN of slander and the disgrace of being a liar, she must cite unimpeachable authorative sources to prove her defaming accusation. Frankly, I would just smile at her and congratulate her on being a "willing fool" and walk away. Obviously, she is a propaganda puppet who cannot think for herself.

Coulter wrote a book on how to talk to "liberals" and I think we ALL should be clued-in on how to penetrate the leftist groupthink.

If you argue with a fool, it can only be a fool's argument.

I remember during the Clinton scandal, my mother's home aide said to me, (re:Clinton/Monica, the Dem. mantra) "Character doesn't count." I told her, she was twentyish, "It bothers me very much that you don't think character counts. I suspect your character might be a matter of investigation because I don't want a person who doesn't have good character or a person who believes isn't important to take care of my elderly mother in this house. She responds, "That's different." I asked, "Why is it different"? She didn't answer because I think she was afraid I was going investigate her. As she was leaving that day, I laughingly (but it was nasty of me) asked her to bring proof of her good character next time. She never came back.


35 posted on 07/05/2005 3:16:10 PM PDT by purpleland
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To: frithguild
I don't care HOW good she looks in spandex. DO NOT DATE THAT WOMAN!!! Just trust me on this, OK?

LOL! I'm not a lesbian, so I wouldn't even consider it, lol!!

Candi

p.s. My screenname doesn't help give any clues to my gender, does it?

36 posted on 07/05/2005 3:16:17 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname
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To: purpleland

What a great story!! I do need to read Coulter's book--I keep seeing it, but not buying it.


37 posted on 07/05/2005 3:18:42 PM PDT by cantfindagoodscreenname
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
you might as well talk to the trees but ...
when folks talk about the 2004 vote, this visual aid comes in handy

38 posted on 07/05/2005 3:31:06 PM PDT by Zacs Mom (Proud wife of a Marine! ... and purveyor of "rampant, unedited dialogue")
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To: RockinRight
"He can do all that...yet he's an idiot. Typical liberal logic."

And since democrats like her are SO smart, how come they failed to get the states' electoral votes they needed? Did the dumb Republicans outsmart the brilliant dimocrats?

39 posted on 07/05/2005 3:40:26 PM PDT by NetValue (No enemy has inflicted as much damage on America as liberals.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname
......you might ask her why they vote for teddy "the swimmer" kennedy year after year...and BTW...how's the "big dig" coming along?


Doogle
40 posted on 07/05/2005 3:43:43 PM PDT by Doogle (8th AF...4077thTFW....408MMS....Ubon Thailand "69"..Night Line Delivery ..AMMO)
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To: TheGeezer

Well, I don't know who's signing your checks, but I was told to tell everyone that it was George Bush...umm..maybe I wasn't supposed to mention that, eh?


41 posted on 07/05/2005 4:49:08 PM PDT by Tennessee_Bob ("Nac Mac Feegle! The Wee Free Men! Nae king! Nae quin! Nae laird! We willna be fooled again!")
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To: Zacs Mom

Another interesting fact is that in South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Idaho (probably), and most of northern Minnesota, the ONLY counties to go blue in these all-red states were either Indian reservations, or, in the case of Minnesota, Indian reservations or "Iron Range" miners. The vote fraud on reservations in South and North Dakota was appalling in 2002, and to a lesser extent 2004.


42 posted on 07/05/2005 5:35:23 PM PDT by alwaysconservative (Why not give Iraq our Constitution? It's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.)
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To: cantfindagoodscreenname

Just point and laugh when you see her again and say to the friend with whom you're working out: "There goes that woman who believes that GWB cut the VA budget in the blue states! C'mon, let's ask her for the budget numbers and SEE what she says TODAY!" A few moments later, "Yep, what an idiot to have the genius to get the Democrats in Congress for those parts of the country to vote against their own VA hospitals!"

I like the idea of another poster to tell her that you wrote GWB and asked him to give the PBS, NEA, and EPA money to the VA and increase military pay. (Only if you're not squeamish about seeing her head explode!)


43 posted on 07/05/2005 5:41:26 PM PDT by alwaysconservative (Why not give Iraq our Constitution? It's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore.)
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