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Is Living Together Before Marriage Totally Accptable? ...Freeper Insight Needed
7.31.05 | mlmr

Posted on 07/31/2005 3:19:52 PM PDT by mlmr

So I have been trying to rent an apartment in my home...and all I have answering the ads are boyfriends and girlfriends. No matter what social status, no matter what income level, I am seeing unmarried twenty, thirty and forty year old couples who want to live together. If I question them, they don't even understand why I am asking.

These are Christians and Jews. I was so surprised to find that it would be so difficult to find a young married couple.

Tell me Dear Freeper...am I totally out of the ballgame to expect to find a young married couple? Am I expecting something that just isn't in our culture anymore?


TOPICS: Society
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To: DefiantZERO

You are free to do whatever you want but God does advise His believers to avoid the appearance of evil. I would not live with a man because first of all that's supposed to be the privilege of being married. Also, if I am a practicing christian how is that to be explained to unbelievers? This is not a judgemental topic. It's a very valid one in this age of disappearing traditional man-woman family.


51 posted on 07/31/2005 3:39:23 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: mlmr
Well...at 49 and married for 27 years to the same wonderful women, and owning a home we live in here in Idaho...we just aren't in the market.

I have four grown kids (two married) and one left at home who is in High School.

My wife and I were both virgins when we married and never lived with anyone else...much less slept with them. We believed it our duty to GoOd and our soceity to save ourselves for marriage and we have raised our kids that way.

There are those who still believe this out there...just keep searching. But...do be careful what you ask and how you ask it. Believe it or not, and as sad a state of affairs as it reflects, you could get into trouble.

Post in your ad and in your home when interviewing some one...in plain site..."We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Also, follow other Freeper advise and make sure you ask the same questions of everyone.

Consider posting your ad at churches and church colleges in the area if there are any. Best of luck...I believe the good Lord will bless you with a good renter.

52 posted on 07/31/2005 3:39:43 PM PDT by Jeff Head (www.dragonsfuryseries.com)
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To: SpringheelJack; cyborg; mlmr
You mean you'd buy a car without driving it first?

If I were to depend on my future/potential spouse only to get me to and from where I want to go, without breaking down, then maybe.

But since, in my humble "o," a future spouse would mean much more to me, than a "test drive", I would opt for a longer courtship to determine him (or her, if that's the case) worthy, if there were any question.

Sound old fashioned? Maybe. Just don't want to be another statistic.

53 posted on 07/31/2005 3:40:01 PM PDT by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big..." Jerry Fletcher)
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To: SpringheelJack

Yep. You mean you'd buy a car without driving it first?


A woman, a man and a relationship are not at all like an automotive transaction. The relaionship is precious and emotions run deep. Your method develops calloused emotions and broken hearts.


54 posted on 07/31/2005 3:40:06 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: DragonflyX

Divorced in your early thirties? That's so sad. I'm sorry that the woman you married had no regard for her wifely responsibilities.


55 posted on 07/31/2005 3:40:46 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: Normal4me

You can say that until you've actually had to deal with a true nympho. It ain't pretty.


56 posted on 07/31/2005 3:42:21 PM PDT by bvw
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To: cyborg
Are you another one of those 'I gotta drive the car first to see if I like it?' types?

While you are not responding to me, I do have some comments on the matter.

At least for guys, there is a heck of a lot of value in having lived with a girlfriend at least once in your life. There are hundreds of different lessons about the realities of living with women that take time to be hammered home, and I've seen many relationships fail because it took too long for those lessons to sink in. People have limits and everyone is human.

That said, after one good learning experience, there is little practical value in living together, at least from the standpoint of the guy. There are benefits, but it is not really necessary if he has his head screwed on straight and has the perspective of prior experience to understand the situation. Men really do not understand their relationship to women when living together lacking a laboratory to sort these things out in. It is much easier to evaluate a potential mate after having lived with a women than prior, as we are often raised with ridiculous expectations that are not helpful when it comes to making a relationship work.

Maybe if our culture cast off many of the ridiculous modern myths of male-female relationships that seem to be cultural doctrine, we would not need to figure out the reality through trial by fire. I am a vastly better potential mate now because I learned my lessons the hard way many years ago. Some other poor girl had to put up with my learning curve (not that women do not have one as well), which makes things much smoother for me today.

57 posted on 07/31/2005 3:42:37 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: SpringheelJack

That's what a long courtship is for.


58 posted on 07/31/2005 3:42:44 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: cyborg

I thank you for your kind reaction, and respect your choices as well. I just feel that this topic exists solely for traditional loyalists to bash everyone who doesn't conform to their views. Someone here mentioned "raised eyebrows" of neighbors who see an unmarried couple living together. Why do they need to "raise an eyebrow"? It's not their business.

I'll gladly "appear to be evil", if it means I have better knowledge and confidance about the major life-altering decision I'm about to make.


59 posted on 07/31/2005 3:42:45 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: DragonflyX

Hence, why I married an English girl and crossed over =P


60 posted on 07/31/2005 3:43:50 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: tortoise

Yes but how many men will put up with living with a girl if he isn't SLEEPING with her?


61 posted on 07/31/2005 3:44:05 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: mlmr

IMHO there is nothing wrong with two adults living together waiting to maybe or maybe not marrying later. People do not need the courts to dictate that. Couples can and do give their vows to one another without being under the watchful eye of the law. Two people can commit to one another without the consent or the license required by local authorities.


62 posted on 07/31/2005 3:44:11 PM PDT by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
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To: Quint on dry land

I think that the values of the underclass became the values of the mainstream.


63 posted on 07/31/2005 3:45:04 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: R. Scott
Kids – it’s far easier to breakup if you aren’t living together!

Ain't that the truth. Another lesson for the masses. The relationship minima is much shallower when one does not live with their girlfriend/boyfriend, making it easier to bail when appropriate.

64 posted on 07/31/2005 3:45:18 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: SpringheelJack
I appreciate wanting to avoid divorce. What needs to be the mindset is to find the one that yoau want to make happy for the rest of his/her life. You must enter the marriage with that mindset. If you find a mate with that same ideal, discounting "why I get out" then the bumpy places will be short and quickly resolved.

(Sorry for bad spelling upthread)

65 posted on 07/31/2005 3:45:45 PM PDT by don-o (Don't be a Freeploader. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor!)
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To: cyborg

Not many, I'll admit to you. But we are out there. My wife was suffering from cystitis bouts for a majority of the time we were trial-living together, which meant sex was a no-no. It never really became an issue.


66 posted on 07/31/2005 3:46:04 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: eastforker

stop making sense....


67 posted on 07/31/2005 3:46:08 PM PDT by dakine
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To: don-o
I pity the woman who considers you for a husband. You are a pig. (and I hereby apoligize to the pigs.)

Oh puleeze...what a drama queen you be.

68 posted on 07/31/2005 3:46:22 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: don-o
I pity the woman who considers you for a husband. You are a pig. (and I hereby apoligize to the pigs.)

Thanks, but I think she'd laugh to hear it offered. Over here I think we're resourceful enough to get by without anyone's rude and unasked for "pity".

69 posted on 07/31/2005 3:46:44 PM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: eastforker

I agree wholeheartedly.


70 posted on 07/31/2005 3:47:18 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Actually, stats say you have a better chance at a successful marriage if you do not live together first.

While I'm not a huge advocate of living together first, as a technical nit the particular study you are referring to has very rightly been shredded as being statistically meaningless due to signficantly biased samples.

71 posted on 07/31/2005 3:47:38 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: DefiantZERO


I underwent a 3-month trial period living with my then-fiancee in an apartment, because we both wanted to make sure we were doing the right thing by getting married, and that we would coexist well under the same roof. The experiment was a success, and we took that final step. It had nothing to do with just having a place to screw all the time, it was about being responsible and making sure we were both ready for the final committment, or if we should just stay dating for a while.

In my value system yes...you should have stayed dating. What would have happened if something came up that you didnt like, or that she didnt like, just toss the relationship over? Marriage is about making it work not playing house.


72 posted on 07/31/2005 3:47:41 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: SpringheelJack

But living together is a lot different from the courtship before, and as the divorce rate shows,

The divorce rate shows that people who live together before marriage have significantly higher divorce rates than those who do not live together.


73 posted on 07/31/2005 3:49:20 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: cyborg
I suppose some couples could live together without all the premarital sex...

That is actually a really good compromise, in terms of bang for the buck. I do not know how many people have the discipline for it though (damn few I'd guess).

74 posted on 07/31/2005 3:49:21 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: mlmr; Mia T; Cindy; Victoria Delsoul; Rome2000; Liz; ValerieUSA; Alamo-Girl; onyx; ...

I'm amazed at how many people prefer a new car, new computer, new home to a used one.

The denial about wanting a virgin spouse is nearly universal and starts when hormone-crazed boys ginned up by a sex-obsessed culture fail to be protectors of women--and treat them like Bill Clinton has done, with Hillary's enabling.

I say nearly universal, for indeed, seven thousand have not yet, um, bent the knee ...

That doesn't solve your rental problem, it's just an observation from one of the 7000 looking for a like one, or one widowed or Biblically divorced--or more importantly in this day and age--learning to love and accept unconditionally, as Jesus did.


75 posted on 07/31/2005 3:49:40 PM PDT by The Spirit Of Allegiance (SAVE THE BRAINFOREST! Boycott the RED Dead Tree Media & NUKE the DNC Class Action Temper Tantrum!)
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To: mlmr

We had our share of spats, it had nothing to do with being "perfect". For your information, my wife is BPD, and that means a HELL of a lot of work holding our relationship together while she fights that. Accusing us of "playing house" is an insult, and I'm extremely offended.


76 posted on 07/31/2005 3:49:52 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: SpringheelJack
So, she understands she is being "test driven?"

God amighty. How sad is that for her?

77 posted on 07/31/2005 3:52:00 PM PDT by don-o (Don't be a Freeploader. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor!)
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To: cyborg
Divorced in your early thirties? That's so sad.

And incredibly common. That experience is reshaping society.

78 posted on 07/31/2005 3:52:38 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: mlmr
A woman, a man and a relationship are not at all like an automotive transaction. The relaionship is precious and emotions run deep. Your method develops calloused emotions and broken hearts.

I wasn't the one who made the comparison, which I found silly anyway. I agree with what you say about a relationship. I do not agree, however, that one develops more calloused emotions and broken hearts than the other.

79 posted on 07/31/2005 3:53:12 PM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: dufekin
These are sexual criminals, perhaps subject to registration requirements if caught, convicted, and so sentenced in an appropriate jurisdiction.

HA! HA! If you're serious, you need to get out more. Where you're living isn't reality.

80 posted on 07/31/2005 3:53:19 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Help us support our troops! - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: eastforker

Couples can and do give their vows to one another without being under the watchful eye of the law. Two people can commit to one another without the consent or the license required by local authorities.



You are talking about common law marriage and vows, not about living together.


81 posted on 07/31/2005 3:53:21 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: don-o

Did you ever stop to think that it's a "test run" to her as well? They are testing their compatibility, leave them alone.


82 posted on 07/31/2005 3:54:26 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: cyborg
Yes but how many men will put up with living with a girl if he isn't SLEEPING with her?

Honestly, hard to say. There are few girls that won't hop into bed without any prodding from the guy, even "nice" girls -- everyone thinks their daughter is an angel. It is somewhat disconcerting actually.

BTW, congratulations! :-)

83 posted on 07/31/2005 3:55:55 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: wagglebee
My recollection of the sodomy decision (Lawrence v. Texas) is that the State cannot prohibit sodomy in a manner that discriminates against the unmarried or homosexuals; therefore, those state laws that prohibit sodomy even within marriage still stand--at least until the Court decides otherwise. Therefore, because the Fact of the Law sees no difference between homosexual sodomy and marital foreplay, the latter is considered the moral equivalent of the former (a mortal sin). At least in Oklahoma, sodomy puts you on the sex offender registry. Three of 'em in my zip code...scary.
84 posted on 07/31/2005 3:57:05 PM PDT by dufekin (US Senate: the only place where the majority [D] comprises fewer than the minority [R])
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To: DragonflyX
There is no creature with a larger sense of entitlement and a smaller sense of duty and honor toward others as the tattooed, foul mouthed, swaggering modern American Woman. Why would any sane man risk financial ruin in divorce court and marry one these days when you can find plenty of them out on the prowl every night?

Been finding all your women at the same biker bar?

Good grief.

85 posted on 07/31/2005 3:57:26 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog (Help us support our troops! - http://freeper.the-hobbit-hole.net/)
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To: DefiantZERO

So?

You would have thrown her over if it was too tough?


86 posted on 07/31/2005 3:57:28 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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Comment #87 Removed by Moderator

To: HairOfTheDog

LOL


88 posted on 07/31/2005 3:58:01 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: don-o

So, she understands she is being "test driven?"
God amighty. How sad is that for her?

Women sometimes don't even understand how badly they are being used I guess...


89 posted on 07/31/2005 3:58:31 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: tortoise

thanks :-)


90 posted on 07/31/2005 3:58:38 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: mlmr; SpringheelJack
A woman, a man and a relationship are not at all like an automotive transaction.

Yep. That's very true.

When you and your automobile part company, the automobile does not take your house, it does not haul away half of your stuff and it does not expect you to keep paying it's maintenance and fuel bills.


91 posted on 07/31/2005 3:59:12 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: cyborg
That's what a long courtship is for.

It's still a lot different from marriage. If you're married, you're going to have to live together, and the two of you may easily have incompatabilities that a courtship, no matter how long, did not bring to the surface.

I'm not knocking somebody for going about it a different way. But in my view, if there are going to be problems, it's best to find them out if you can before you're in a situation which requires lawyers.

92 posted on 07/31/2005 4:00:51 PM PDT by SpringheelJack
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To: mlmr

No one would've "thrown" over anyone.

If we tried and tried as hard as we could, and it just wasn't working out, we would've mutually parted.

If it worked alright but we just didn't feel totally ready, we would've agreed that we both just need more time to mature and prepare ourselves. It wasn't about whether or not we should stay monogamous to each other or anything, just about being ready to cohabitate together all the time. Some people *do* have different reactions to being with someone periodically as opposed to all the time. We were testing ourselves.


93 posted on 07/31/2005 4:00:52 PM PDT by DefiantZERO
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To: DefiantZERO
They are testing their compatibility, leave them alone.

What do we have? 4,000 years of recorded human history? How venerable is the tradition of a couple who want to marry just give it a go to see if they like it?

Uh, people used to get killed for acting out like this!

94 posted on 07/31/2005 4:01:02 PM PDT by don-o (Don't be a Freeploader. Do the right thing and become a Monthly Donor!)
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To: mlmr

Root causes may have something to do with class, but I would be more inclined to think self-discipline a central issue. I see generations that build up good names and/or good estates followed by generations that simply squander those attainments. A defining difference in those comparisons is self-discipline.

Straining to be non-judgmental sort of seems to erode the ability to develop healthy self-discipline. Indulgence of one generation for the sloppy morals of a following generation handicaps the younger ones, puts them on a path to no defining achievement. I suspect there are cycles, but don't know how to get that perspective.


95 posted on 07/31/2005 4:01:04 PM PDT by Quint on dry land (Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.)
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To: Polybius

does not take your house, it does not haul away half of your stuff and it does not expect you to keep paying it's maintenance and fuel bills.


Perhaps the emphisis should not be on parting company but instead on making good choices and sticking with them.


96 posted on 07/31/2005 4:01:35 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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Comment #97 Removed by Moderator

To: SpringheelJack

It's still a lot different from marriage. If you're married, you're going to have to live together, and the two of you may easily have incompatabilities that a courtship, no matter how long, did not bring to the surface.

BIG difference between living together and being married. Living together is like being on a loooooog date. Being married is about knowing there is commitment and forever.


98 posted on 07/31/2005 4:03:02 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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To: SpringheelJack

What sort of incompatabilities? I'm trying imagine what they could be and why they would not come out during a long courtship.


99 posted on 07/31/2005 4:05:03 PM PDT by cyborg (to love,honor and obey...)
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To: Quint on dry land

It is difficult to see the lack of commitment and moral vacancy in these young faces.


100 posted on 07/31/2005 4:05:18 PM PDT by mlmr (CHICKIE-POO!)
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