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AMERICA - The Right Way!! (Day 1700) [Remember the Trade Center!!]
Various News Sources and FReepers | September 16, 2005 | All of Us

Posted on 09/16/2005 4:55:51 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society

We will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail!

Good morning!!

Do not let the victims of the attacks on New York and Washington, nor the brave members of our Nation's military who have given their lives to protect our freedom, die in vain!!

The Sinking of the City of New Orleans

As I am sure we all know by now, unless you've been living in a cave, the city of New Orleans was reminded, in the most brutal of ways, that man is not the master of nature, but that he lives within the will of his surroundings.  That this might be applied to the debate on global climate change--if man could control nature, wouldn't he have eliminated such things as hurricanes?--is, in the words of Alton Brown from Good Eats, "another show."

Naturally, that such a calamity would be the fault of nature beyond the measure of mere men is not in the nature of humans--someone has to be blamed, and blamed he was.  And by the end of the second week following the disaster, the personification of personal blame, the director of FEMA (the Federal Emergency Management Authority) was unceremoniously sacked, first from his duties along the Gulf coast (that was public) and then his position heading the agency (that was private--the public sap being that he "resigned").

Unfortunately, and Mr. Brown would probably take little solace in this, he was a political sacrifice; and offering to the great spin machine in Washington, DC, that would much rather look to the grindings of political opportunism than the true investigation into the events of the disaster.

Some of these events have not received wide publicity--and some none at all, far as I can tell--but this space will now endeavor to bring what is known, and what is a matter of public policy regarding disasters, into one report.  This report draws upon information available from The Wall Street Journal, newsmax.com, Times-Picayune States-Item, FoxNews, the Department of Homeland Security, the National Hurricane Center, the Federal Emergency Management Authoriity, State of Louisiana, Wikipeida, and, of course, FreeRepublic.com.

As opening rants go, this one is rather long, but it is a tale that is screaming to get out.

Duties of the Mayor of New Orleans When Confronted With an Approaching Hurricane and its Aftermath...

Bureaucracies are notorious for drafting policies and plans that often are never implemented, mainly for the purpose of saying they have a policy, or a plan exists, to address virtually any given situation.  This is done irrespective of whether any resources are actually available to implement a plan or policy, or not.  Staff in these bureaucracies have an appropriately derisive name for these policies:  shelfware.

One such piece of shelfware exists in the New Orleans city bureaucracy, a tome entitled the Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan.

This plan discusses what should be done in the event of a major hurricane approaching the Crescent City.  The city administration, according to the plan, accepted responsibility for the following pre-event requirements (among others):

It is also worthy of note that, according to the Wall Street Journal, the City of New Orleans, on August 1, developed plans for the use of its transit and school buses to move refugees out of the city when and if disaster struck.

What is also interesting about the 9,000-word Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan is what it doesn't say:

Duties of the Governor of Louisiana When Confronted With an Approaching Hurricane, and its Aftermath...

The governor of the State of Louisiana is the primary official responsible for coordinating all phases of disaster relief to the entirety of citizens within that political subdivision.  Many of the responsibilities the governor specifically has are spelled out in the National Response Plan of the Federal Department of Homeland Security, namely:

The Louisiana government's Evacuation Guidelines allow for the use of public school buses.

Duties of the Tropical Prediction Center (AKA National Hurricane Center) When Confronted With an Approaching Hurricane, and its Aftermath...

The duties of the TPC are actually fairly simple and straight forward:

Duties of FEMA, and the Department of Homeland Security, When Confronted With an Approaching Hurricane, and its Aftermath...

The duties of the Federal Government are probably the most misunderstood aspect of what occurs during disaster preparedness and disaster recovery.  The abilities and capabilities of the FEMA, the Federal Government's agent in the event of a disaster, are spelled out in statute--the Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act (PL 93-288, as amended).  The law is rather prescriptive and limits the ability of FEMA to respond, probably because of a sensitivity to that quaint notion of Federalism--we are a union of 50 autonomous states--that suggests the first response to disasters should come from the states themselves.  FEMA is capable of reacting to an emergency, but that emergency has to be declared by the President...

In addition, the governor of an affected state can request the President to use Federal (as opposed to National Guard) troops, for a period not to exceed 10 days [emphasis added], work on public and private land "essential for the preservation of life and property."

The National Response Plan prepared by the Department of Homeland Security in December 2004, and prepared with full knowledge of the Stafford Act, notes the following:

Duties of the Army Corps of Engineers When Confronted With an Approaching Hurricane, and its Aftermath...

The duties of the ACE, in the New Orleans area, are one of maintaining the Federal levee system that protects the city against any hurricane of category three or less.  The ACE notes:

Joseph Suhayda, who is a retired Louisiana State University coastal oceanographer notes the levees have sunk over the years, and probably wouldn't protect the area against even a category two hurricane.  The 17th Street Canal overtop walls, however, probably would mitigate against this.

In addition, the ACE is responsible for a lock system on the New Orleans Industrial Canal which raises and lowers shipping from the 8 inches above sea level that is Lake Ponchatrain and the roughly 10 feet above sea level that is the Mississippi River.  The lock was built in the 1920s, and the ACE was attempting to upgrade the lock and entire system in 1998 (indeed $600 million had been appropriated for the work).  The residents of the 9th Ward in New Orleans sued the ACE because the work created too much noise.  The project was still in litigation at the end of August 2005.

What Actually Happened...

August 25, 2005

KATRINA strikes Florida as a category I hurricane.  At least 11 die.

August 26, 2005

President Bush calls Louisiana governor Blaco.  Based on a series of meetings he has had with his Deputy Chief of Staff, the President tries to convince the governor to take needed action, and take it immediately.

The governor of Louisiana demurs, weighing the legalities of accepting Federal assistance, and wondering if doing so would lead to the perception that her office couldn't handle an emergency.  Gov. Blanco flatly declares there is a plan for dealing with a large hurricane.

Gov. Blanco declares a state of emergency in Louisiana.

August 27, 2005

KATRINA becomes a category III hurricane.

President Bush declares a state of emergency for Louisiana.

FEMA begins the coordination of disaster relief with a number of Louisiana parishes.  FEMA is, however, restricted from interfering in local operations because Louisiana has not authorized such activity.

FEMA activates Texas TF-1 search and rescue and stages them in Shreveport, LA (about 300 miles NW of New Orleans--a day's drive because you would leave the Interstate system at Lafayette due to flooding).

FEMA's Michael Brown (yep, the one that was cashiered) declares:  "There's about 36 hours for folks to get ready.  Beyond that, it's just too late. I can't emphasize enough to viewers how serious FEMA is taking this storm. The agency has dispatched teams to both states [LA and MS]

President Bush contacts Gov. Blanco and urges her to order a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans.

Mayor Nagin calls for a voluntary evacuation of New Orleans.

Gov. Blanco requests that President Bush declare a major disaster for the State of Louisiana as required by the Stafford Act.  SPECIFICALLY MISSING FROM THIS REQUEST ARE THE FOLLOWING PARISHES:  JEFFERSON, PLAQUEMINES, ST. BERNARD, AND ORLEANS.  This means the Federal Government, BY LAW, is specifically PROHIBITED from providing aid to the areas most likely to be struck by KATRINA!  [Of note:  it appears the August 27 letter from the Louisiana governor's office is now no longer available on the state's website--it has been replaced by a letter dated August 28.  Information here is that drawn from Wikipedia.]

President Bush declares a major disaster in the regions requested in Gov. Blanco's letter.

Max Maxfield, of the NHC, contacts Mayor Nagin.  He pleads with the mayor to order an evacuation of New Orleans, pointing out the levees were not designed to handle a storm of this size.

August 28, 2005

12:40 AM CT:  KATRINA becomes a Category IV storm.

10 AM CT:  NWS says "devastating" damage will occur from KATRINA.

10 AM CT:  Mayor Nagin and Gov. Blanco issue a mandatory evacuation order--this order is 24 hours late according to the city's Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan.  The buses available in the city are never used.

Gov. Blanco seems to understand what's coming.  On Larry King:  New Orleans could expect a complete loss of electricity and water services as well as intense flooding.

New Orleans tells people to bring enough personal food and water to emergency shelters for three to five days.  Problem would be--people after the storm would be moving to shelters through flood waters incapable of bringing their own supplies.

Seven trucks of food and three trucks with water deliver supplies to the Superdome.

1 PM CT:  KATRINA becomes a Category V storm.

LATER:

The mayor of New Orleans would make his last address to the city:  fill [your] upstairs bathtubs with water, and in case of real trouble, make sure you have a way of hacking through your roof -- so you are not trapped by rising water.

AMTRAK offers the City of New Orleans free transportation to evacuate residents.  The offer is turned down.

President Bush declares a state of emergency in Alabama and Mississippi.

August 29, 2005

Early morning:  Mayor Nagin closes the Crescent City Connector--this would be the sole remaining land connection to the city over the coming days.

6:10 AM CT:  KATRINA makes landfall at Grand Isle, LA.  Maximum winds are 145 MPH.

6:44 AM CT:  Hurricane KATRINA slams into Buras, LA, with winds of 144 MPH, and pushing in front of it a storm surge of 24 feet.

Early Morning:  Waters from the Gulf of Mexico, being pushed up into marshes in Plaquemines parish, begin inundating this region.  As the storm moves north, winds begin to shift, driving the waters from Lake Borgne into St. Bernard parish.

8 AM CT:  Water rises in the Industrial Canal of New Orleans.

9 AM CT:  Wind direction continues to move counter-clockwise.  As winds start moving from the ENE, with KATRINA approaching Mississippi, water is shoved past the Chandelier barrier islands, into Chandelier Sound, and ultimately into Lake Ponchatrain.  These waters slam into the Industrial Canal and spill over its eastern bank, flooding the 9th ward of New Orleans.

11 AM CT:  Up to 10 feet of water is reported in St. Bernard.

1:00 PM CT:  Winds start diminishing in New Orleans, and water levels begin to fall on Lake Ponchatrain.  Residents of New Orleans think they have dodged a bullet.  Shortly afterward, however, a barge breaks from its moorings.

2:00 PM CT:  New Orleans officials admit a breach in the 17th Street Levee.  This resulted from the barge that broke loose slamming into the concrete overtop wall of the 17th Street Canal--this concrete barrier is several feet thick.  The wall breaks, and the inundation of New Orleans commences. [The barge, incidentally, has been found at the bottom of the breach.]

3:00 PM CT:  New Orleans Homeland Security Director Terry Ebbertt:  "Everybody who had a way or wanted to get out of the way of this storm was able to."

At other, unspecified, times:

August 30, 2005

1:30 AM CT:  The 17th Street Canal levee breach is two city blocks wide.

12:00 PM CT:  The Department of Homeland Security's Secretary becomes aware the levee breach cannot be plugged.

10:00 PM CT:  Mayor Nagin reports that attempts to sandbag the 17th Street Canal breach have failed--80 percent of New Orleans is now under water.

At other, unspecified times:

FEMA and DoD personnel, as called for in the National Response Plan are moving doctors, nurses, rescue experts, support personnel, and supplies toward New Orleans.  They are, however, powerless to use any of these as Gov. Blanco still had not declared the situation beyond the capability of Louisiana to handle, thus preventing Federal assistance because of Federal law (the Stafford Act)!

Mayor Nagin of New Orleans leaves the Crescent City Connector closed to all outbound traffic--including pedestrian.

By evening, Gov. Blanco was watching, most assuredly, the same newscasts the rest of us were, showing rapes, looting, and even the report of one of New Orleans' police officers being shot in the head.  Bullets are flying by relief workers; indeed, the city was clearly out of control

The Louisiana governor still doesn't request Federal assistance.

Gov. Blanco calls for the evacuation of New Orleans "within 48 hours", but provides no assistance to undertake the operation.

USS Bataan begins what relief operations it can under Federal law.

Other US military assets are ordered to the Gulf region.

August 31,2005

Mayor Nagin finally opens the Crescent City connector to allow refugees to go to the West Bank to "find whatever relief they can locate".  This means that for three days, by force, the mayor has kept people locked in the Central Business District of New Orleans.  Now, unfortunately, no one who would need to know this can learn of this because:  (1) there were no electronic means to distribute information in New Orleans anymore; and (2) the city government didn't make this fact known to the people in the CBD.

Looting prompts state officials to send an armored personnel carrier and 70 additional officers into New Orleans.

People are trapped in the Superdome and Convention Center with no electricity, no food, no water, and no sewer capability.

Officials in the city of New Orleans first realize people are using the Convention Center as a refugee center.

President Bush declares the Gulf coast a Public Health Emergency.

First relief supplies reach the Superdome.

Louisiana workers begin closing the 17th Street Canal breach.

September 1, 2005

Media outlets begin to criticize the slow response of Federal assistance to New Orleans--in fact, it was not possible because there had been no request from Louisiana to provide relief.  The Stafford Act prohibited FEMA and other Federal agencies from doing anything.

Gov. Blanco finally signs Executive Order KBB-2005-23.  This Order requests Federal assistance.  It would still be several hours, because of the road network in southern Louisiana allowing only two routes of access to New Orleans, before relief supplies could reach New Orleans.

Gov. Blanco finally allows the Red Cross access to New Orleans.

Federal officials would rescue 10,000 people in the first 12 hours after Gov. Blanco gave permission for them to operate in Louisiana.

Buses arrive in New Orleans to remove people.  This encourages some, who realize there is now a land outlet, to steel cars from parking garages to get out of the city.

FEMA is informed by New Orleans officials that people are located at the Convention Center.

New Orleans mayor delivers his "SOS" speech.

Fires start breaking out in places within New Orleans--fortunately, most of the city doesn't become ablaze as there is little that can be done to constrain these fires.

A 50-member Canadian force (who, remember, are not under the strictures of the Stafford Act) reach New Orleans.  Louisiana State Senator Boasso would comment they beat the US military by five days.

National Guardsman bring 475 buses to New Orleans, along with relief supplies.

Red Cross officials request permission to distribute supplies in New Orleans from state officials; their request is refused to avoid creating an incentive for folks to stay at the Superdome.

Gov. Blanco requests 40,000 National Guard troops.

California swift water rescue crews rescue hundreds from New Orleans, but have to stop when shot at by thugs.

The 17th Street Canal is separated from Lake Ponchatrain by a sheet piling.

September 2, 2005

President Bush requests unified control over all local police and National Guard units reporting to the Louisiana governor.  Note carefully, unified control, not a takeover, was being sought.  Gov. Blanco rejects this saying such would be comparable "to a Federal declaration of martial law."

Fifty relief vehicles arrive in New Orleans ("the cavalry").  Sick and wounded are finally evacuated from two hospitals (presumably Charity and Tulane Medical Center).

Week of September 4, 2005

Gov. Blanco requests that the State of Louisiana take over the recovery of bodies in the delta region, including Jefferson, Orleans and St. Bernard parishes.

September 4, 2005

The Superdome is completely evacuated.

September 5, 2005

The breach in the 17th Street Canal is closed.  The sheet pilings at its connection to Lake Ponchatrain are removed so the canal can be used to aid in draining the city.

September 6, 2005

Forced evacuation of New Orleans ordered by the mayor.  Gov. Blanco, however, refuses to endorse this order, so its legitimacy is questionable.

September 8, 2005

President Bush issues and Executive Order suspending the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931; this will allow Federal contractors to pay wages below the prevailing rate to those rebuilding after KATRINA.

September 9, 2005

Michael Brown is relieved of KATRINA recovery responsibilities by Secretary of Homeland Security Chertoff.

September 12, 2005

Michael Brown steps down, probably after being cashiered in private as the political fall guy, as head of FEMA.

September 13, 2005

Gov. Blanco criticizes FEMA for the slow pace of recovering dead bodies.

Conclusions--

There's a lot of blame to go around, but some things present themselves as clear when the facts are analyzed:

  1. New Orleans had a disaster plan; it was not used.
  2. Louisiana knew they were faced with a huge disaster, yet parochial distrust of the Federal Government (endemic in the region) got in the way of sound decision-making.
  3. The poor and the weak were the least helped by the strong (the City of New Orleans and State of Louisiana governments).
  4. The State of Louisiana operated at bureaucratic speed instead of crisis speed, despite being faced with the largest disaster in American history.
  5. The City of New Orleans deliberately locked people in the city for days with force.
  6. The State of Louisiana deliberately blocked relief.
  7. The State of Louisiana deliberately excluded the parishes (equivalent of counties) in Southeast Louisiana--the most likely to be hit--from the Stafford Act request to the Federal Government; this would lock out the Federal Government.
  8. The Federal Government pre-positioned supplies and manpower, but was affirmatively restrained from using them under Federal law; and the Governor of Louisiana understood the constraints of Federal law in this regard because the President had specifically asked her to address the issue BEFORE the storm struck.

On its face, then it would hold the Governor of Louisiana is directly responsible for the needless deaths of hundreds of people in Jefferson, Orleans, Plaquemines, and St. Bernard parishes.  The legislature of Louisiana should begin an immediate investigation into this barbarous act, and initiate impeachment proceedings.  If need be, the United States Department of Justice should enter into the equation also to the extent allowed under Federal law.

Secondarily, an investigation should also be launched into the culpability of Mayor Nagin into the suffering and death of people in New Orleans for failing to follow, to the extent he had the flexibility under state law, his own disaster plan.

And finally, the United States Congress needs to conduct its own investigation into where hundreds of millions of dollars in Federal funding for flood protection in the Bayou State actually went.


Partial list of primary sources consulted for this article:

FreeRepublic.com:  Blanco Refused To Act... Governor’s Indecision Cost Precious Time

FoxNews:  New Orleans Nursing Home Owners Charged With Negligent Homicide

Newsmax:  Amtrak, Nagin Argue Over Rescue Train

Newsmax:  Red Cross Blocked Before Levee Break

Newsmax:  Gov. Kathleen Blanco's Bureaucrats Blocked Food and Water

Newsmax:  Mayor Nagin- Gov. Blanco Delayed Rescue

Newsmax:  Why New Orleans Flooded

Wikipedia:  Hurricane Katrina timeline

FEMA:  National Response Plan

FEMA:  Emergency Aid Authorized For Hurricane Katrina Emergency Response In Louisiana


For AMERICA - The Right Way, I remain yours in the Cause, the Chairman.


TOPICS: AMERICA - The Right Way!!
KEYWORDS: atrw; katrinafacts; letsroll
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Post your short news items, issues of interest, links, and so on. All who advance the Cause are welcome.

LET'S ROLL!!!

1 posted on 09/16/2005 4:55:53 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society
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To: A Citizen Reporter; ABG(anybody but Gore); AFPhys; alwaysconservative; Angelwood; arazitjh; ...

The President gave a very good speech last night, but there are still very serious issues of culpability, and possibly cover up, that need to be addressed!


2 posted on 09/16/2005 4:56:40 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society; Redleg Duke

Whoohoo! This first is for you, RD.


3 posted on 09/16/2005 4:56:43 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

Now, I'm back to reading your wonderful post. How was your night? Uneventful, I hope.


4 posted on 09/16/2005 4:57:55 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: lysie
How was your night? Uneventful, I hope.

Quiet.

5 posted on 09/16/2005 4:59:12 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society
Good morning. I have a tinfoil theory which I'll share in case Rush doesn't check the Dawn Patrol:

Tin foil hat time. I have been told all my life that communists don't really consider a large number of deaths to be consequential when it is a means to gain an end. At best human death is unfortunate but unavoidable to them. From the way things went down in NO, I'm wondering if Nagin and Blanco received their orders (from whatever central committee who is pulling their strings) to shut the people in and have them die. Then, they could go ahead with their blame game. The media would be focusing on the bodies and the culpability would have been minimized.

The deaths didn't occur as predicted and the scrutiny is beginning. /tinfoil with apologies for those who are reading this for a second time.

6 posted on 09/16/2005 5:00:46 AM PDT by Jemian ( The oath is to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States)
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To: lysie; All

Good Morning. When I kissed Mr. IG Good Morning, I wished him a Happy Wedding Anniversary.

He said, "What does that mean?"

I said, "It means we've been married 38 years and in 2 years we're going to have a big party"

He said, "How much is that going to cost me?"

That man has no sense of adventure unless it involves deer & elk hunting or shopping for farm machinery.


7 posted on 09/16/2005 5:02:17 AM PDT by Iowa Granny (Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.)
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To: Jemian
I have been told all my life that communists don't really consider a large number of deaths to be consequential when it is a means to gain an end. At best human death is unfortunate but unavoidable to them. From the way things went down in NO, I'm wondering if Nagin and Blanco received their orders (from whatever central committee who is pulling their strings) to shut the people in and have them die.

I stated as much in one posting as well. Now, with the research I have done, and the fact the Louisiana governor's office removed their 8/27 letter, replacing it with an 8/28 letter that says they requested a declaration for Orleans and surrounding parishes, I'm really suspicious!

8 posted on 09/16/2005 5:03:10 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Iowa Granny

Happy anniversary to you and Iowa Gramps.


9 posted on 09/16/2005 5:04:20 AM PDT by Jemian ( The oath is to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States)
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To: Iowa Granny

Happy Anniversary!


10 posted on 09/16/2005 5:05:19 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society
WOW!! Excellent!! Thank you. I'll use this, if needed, to shove down my screaming, liberal family members' throats who think its Bush's fault.

You are most definitely the Chairman.

11 posted on 09/16/2005 5:05:37 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

I'm sure it was your posting which planted the germ in my mind. FOLLOW THE MONEY! NO and LA have graft perfected to a fine art.


12 posted on 09/16/2005 5:05:42 AM PDT by Jemian ( The oath is to uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States)
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To: Jemian
NO and LA have graft perfected to a fine art.

There's a saying I remember from my days in Louisiana...

Half of the state's officials are under water, the remainder are under indictment.

13 posted on 09/16/2005 5:07:00 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Iowa Granny

Congratulations!!!!

You, sweetie, are a hoot!


14 posted on 09/16/2005 5:09:12 AM PDT by LBKQ
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To: Iowa Granny
Congratulations.

He said, "How much is that going to cost me?"

That man has no sense of adventure unless it involves deer & elk hunting or shopping for farm machinery.

Be thankful for that...and I know you are.

My G. has the same feeeling about fishing. In our earlier years I couldn't understand it...but now...I KNOW that if he was to cheat on me I have nothing to worry about because it would be all about fishing. LOL

15 posted on 09/16/2005 5:10:17 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

GREAT opening, Chair!

Thank you very much!!!!


16 posted on 09/16/2005 5:10:34 AM PDT by LBKQ
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To: Jemian
I'm sure it was your posting which planted the germ in my mind. FOLLOW THE MONEY!

There's also another saying...

The money wasn't spent incorrectly, the paperwork was completed incorrectly.

17 posted on 09/16/2005 5:10:54 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Jemian

Parts of your theory really are not too tinfoily.


18 posted on 09/16/2005 5:12:30 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: lysie

I don't think there's anything resembling the Mir space station in that theory at all. I think it's credible, and I think an investigation ought to be opened because, if it is found to be true, murder took place.


19 posted on 09/16/2005 5:14:51 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society; All; gulfcoast6; lysie; Jemian; LBKQ; Iowa Granny; prairiebreeze; ..
Good morning!

Chairman, the opening is outstanding!! Kudos to you!!!

20 posted on 09/16/2005 5:15:29 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: Iowa Granny
After 38 years of marriage..even with him saying "What does that mean?" he's a keeper.

If it was cooler I'd say fire up that hot tub and suggest a new adventure. LOL


21 posted on 09/16/2005 5:18:32 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society; All; Iowa Granny; The Raven; kayak; Lorena; Dog; lepton; ...
Oh, God, Sen. Feinstein's at it again Jonah Goldberg

To ABC's surprise, Katrina Victims Praise Bush and Blame Nagin

Bush the unreported hero Andrew Bolt

The JFK Question Manuel Miranda

22 posted on 09/16/2005 5:18:43 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

I know, Chair. It's just that my brain can't accept it all. It's far to sad , yet I wouldn't be surprised. I will agree an investigation should be ordered.


23 posted on 09/16/2005 5:20:57 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Molly Pitcher; gulfcoast6
Don't ya love it about ABC news trying to stoke the victims and yet...

Toby saw this 'cause ABC is all he can get, right now.

Good morning.

24 posted on 09/16/2005 5:22:53 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: lysie; Dog
But there are times when it is necessary to provide protection to all of God's creatures...


25 posted on 09/16/2005 5:23:13 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Iowa Granny
That is too funny!

Congrats, Iowa...

The winter before our 25th, I brought up the subject with my husband...

He hesitated, then asked..."So you want to take a cruise, or something?" Then held his breath, waiting for my answer!

"No! Let's just go over to Virginia for a quiet weekend.."

Wow! You should have seen the look of relief on his face!!

And no, I hadn't bought into the Virginia is for Lovers thing...

With my mother's family all coming from there... its beauty...its history... it's long been a favorite of mine.

26 posted on 09/16/2005 5:23:51 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: lysie; DollyCali

We're having some much needed rain!!!!


27 posted on 09/16/2005 5:25:05 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society
LOL

Oh my. That looks just like my Elsa...although I have never put foil on her head..yet. LOL

28 posted on 09/16/2005 5:25:08 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society
Morning all. Chair, nice job on compilation of info on your opening. Thank you. Passed on to my email list. Followed your saga yesterday. Being a landlord has it's downside, no doubt. I did it for about 15 years. Good luck
29 posted on 09/16/2005 5:27:58 AM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your s God is!)
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To: lysie; All

I will have the tiny gc here with me today, due to his daycare provider having a family funeral.

I may, or maynot be back here until mid afternoon when his Mother arrives to retrieve him.


30 posted on 09/16/2005 5:29:15 AM PDT by Iowa Granny (Inside me lives a skinny woman crying to get out. But I can usually shut her up with cookies.)
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To: DollyCali
Followed your saga yesterday. Being a landlord has it's downside, no doubt.

Yesterday morning, they were telling us they would have the money by this evening. They also asked if we were paid whether they could reopen; we said "yes".

But, yesterday afternoon, the business owner's son called us from Richmond. He asked us if they could pay $20K now, and the rest after they sell the business.

They don't have the money.

31 posted on 09/16/2005 5:32:30 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: Iowa Granny

Hope you two have many, many more!

32 posted on 09/16/2005 5:34:14 AM PDT by kassie
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To: Iowa Granny; Miss Marple; MozartLover; hayburner; tillacum; lysie

MozartLover should be getting ready for her adventure about now!!


33 posted on 09/16/2005 5:34:31 AM PDT by Molly Pitcher (We are Americans...the sons and daughters of liberty...*.from FReeper the Real fifi*))
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

All I can say about your brilliant summary is: WELL DONE!!!!!

Thanks for all your hard work and in getting this thread and discussion started!


34 posted on 09/16/2005 5:36:43 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (You're just jealous because the voices talk only to ME.)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

sometimes you just need to take what is there before it turns into zero and a law suit. There was one year that the "write offs" were no longer attractive. Profit was our goal, not sheltering. It is a terrible situation for all of you there


35 posted on 09/16/2005 5:40:44 AM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your s God is!)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

Excellent work, Chairman. Thank you for providing this clear timeline, which will come in handy for all of us.


36 posted on 09/16/2005 5:43:23 AM PDT by Carolinamom (Life is a journey, not a destination.)
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To: Jemian

You're probably vaguely remembering a quote of Stalin, which goes (something) like this:

"One death is a tragedy, millions of deaths are a statistic."

The point being that once the "numbers" start to rack up, the communists' dream of minimizing individuality in favor of the "class" or "group" takes over. When individual identity and worth (value) plummet, it is easier to get the collective to rely on external or governmental controls. Then, instead of individual thought and power, you have a small group of extremely powerful policy-makers controlling the lives and thoughts of the many.


37 posted on 09/16/2005 5:43:31 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (You're just jealous because the voices talk only to ME.)
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To: Iowa Granny
That man has no sense of adventure unless it involves deer & elk hunting or shopping for farm machinery.

LOLOLOL! I'm probably married to his brother, except for the farm machinery part. Happy Anniversary!

38 posted on 09/16/2005 5:46:07 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (You're just jealous because the voices talk only to ME.)
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To: Iowa Granny

Mr and Mrs Iowa..
have a memorable day
to commemorate
a memorable marriage

39 posted on 09/16/2005 5:46:48 AM PDT by DollyCali (Don't tell GOD how big your storm is -- Tell the storm how B-I-G your s God is!)
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To: Molly Pitcher

Bump for later reading, and thanks, Molly! BBL


40 posted on 09/16/2005 5:46:51 AM PDT by alwaysconservative (You're just jealous because the voices talk only to ME.)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society
Blame Bush, sure, right....GOOD A.M. TO ALL FROM THE HOT MISSISSIPPI GULF COAST, USA!!!!
\
Suppose to rain this afternoon, might, could, not written in stone, dry as a bone, plants suffering, already lost one Azalea and others look sick. Will get wanter in the barrel and give them a drink today, rain or no rain.

Our AG and Gov are suing the insurance companies for beating the ensured out of coverage. The LAST place insurance companies want is their case be tried in Mississippi. Top class insurance companies being crooks.

Don't know about all this company, gotta smile and keep on keeping on, gotta realize it is the right thing to do but hey, D needs help and it is like a motel, she being the maid. I am really not this bitter at all but am starting to be. They all are going into town today and see the damage that was done by the storm, winds and water and I am staying here, ain't no way I am going.

Pot pies tonight, pot pies tomorrow night. Ummmmm D thinking.

This is low time for me right now, not use to all this traffic in the house, gonna get on my tractor and pick up limbs, etc., work out my anger.

Darn it, now they need to use the computer, oh well, I will be signing off, going to sit back and take 20 deep breaths and, the world will continue to turn. Toby
41 posted on 09/16/2005 5:50:37 AM PDT by gulfcoast6
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To: gulfcoast6
Our AG and Gov are suing the insurance companies for beating the ensured out of coverage.

A favorite, and very sleezy, tactic of insurance companies (they often lose this in courts, but it takes taking them to court to win, and they know most folks don't have the resources or energy)...

All private insurance polices do not insure against flooding (this is covered by Federal insurance). Most define flooding as any water intrusion into the house. Most homes have roofs that fail at around 115 MPH (category III wind) or so. The roof fails, the rain comes in, and the insurance company says it's "water damage, not covered." Well, of course, if the roof hadn't blown off, the water wouldn't have entered the structure.

42 posted on 09/16/2005 5:57:40 AM PDT by Chairman_December_19th_Society (It's not your property; you are merely a tenant of the state [SCOTUS - 2005].)
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To: gulfcoast6

Hang on Toby. Brighter days ahead!


43 posted on 09/16/2005 6:02:45 AM PDT by kassie
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society; Jemian
Chairman, thank you for taking the time to write that excellent summary of what went on. I am especially interested in the exclusion of those parishes from the governor's request.

jemian, I think your idea has more merit than when I first commented on it, given what the Chairman has posted.

44 posted on 09/16/2005 6:09:33 AM PDT by Miss Marple (Lord, please look after Mozart Lover's son and keep him strong.)
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To: Iowa Granny

Happy Anniversary. Men! Can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em.


45 posted on 09/16/2005 6:12:47 AM PDT by Peach (South Carolina is praying for our Gulf coast citizens.)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

I'm still working my way through your fantastic opening and timeline. What a lot of work! Thank you.

I did not know this:

Gov. Blanco requests that President Bush declare a major disaster for the State of Louisiana as required by the Stafford Act. SPECIFICALLY MISSING FROM THIS REQUEST ARE THE FOLLOWING PARISHES: JEFFERSON, PLAQUEMINES, ST. BERNARD, AND ORLEANS. This means the Federal Government, BY LAW, is specifically PROHIBITED from providing aid to the areas most likely to be struck by KATRINA!


46 posted on 09/16/2005 6:16:21 AM PDT by Peach (South Carolina is praying for our Gulf coast citizens.)
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To: Chairman_December_19th_Society

This is the most comprehensive list I've seen, Chair. I'm in awe.

This is being sent to news-friendly outlets. Thank you.


47 posted on 09/16/2005 6:27:32 AM PDT by Peach (South Carolina is praying for our Gulf coast citizens.)
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To: Jemian
Tin foil hat time.

I spent a lot of years in my life covering and supervising the coverage of local and state governments. I discovered there are an inordinate number of incompetent people serving in both elected and appointed positions of government.

People who can really make things happen usually are attracted to the business world. They start corporations and run them. They create products and services and build big businesses out of small ones. They combine ambition with a real desire to accomplish combined with great skills for accomplishment.

There are also people who can make things happen but can't handle ultimate responsibility. They can do great things while working for someone else, but can't take the pressure of being the top boss. They have the desire and ability to accomplish, but not the ambition to go out on their own. Every bit of success in my life came from finding, hiring, and retaining this type of person. I can imagine and create but not accomplish. So I have always had to hire people to accomplish my goals. That is why I studied ambition, drive, and accomplishment skills so carefully. That is also why the first 30 years of my life were pretty much devoted to abject failure. It was very difficult to face my own limitations.

Many people who make a career out of elective office do not have much in the way of accomplishment skills or even the desire to accomplish. Many have next to zero accomplishment skills. Like me, they have ambition but not the implementation skills to make it work. Those who face their shortcomings find people to implement their plans and ideas. But many, especially in government, will not acknowledge their own shortcomings. They only have great ambition for power and control. The really want to be in control, but do not possess the ability to accomplish.

Some that don't face their limitations achieve power but accomplish little. Bill Clinton is a prime example. Bill Clinton has huge ambition to be in control but not much of a desire or an ability to accomplish. One can only hope that bad things don't happen under their watch.

When the Governor of Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans faced a situation requiring great accomplishments, they just couldn't do it and they did not delegate the task. Their actions were pretty much limited to wishing the problem would go away.

They have ambition but no skills or abilities to back it up. They failed to hire and/or delegate implementation to those that could perform the tasks required.

Effective leaders be they Washington, Jackson, Lincoln, FDR, or Bush 43, all have ambition as well as the desire and talent to accomplish. Reagan was one of our greatest presidents but he did not have great accomplishment skills. But he was very effective at delegating to others the accomplishment of his goals. His genius was finding and hiring people who had great accomplishment abilities. Reagan had a talent for picking people who could easily accomplish his goals. Reagan was severely criticized by the media for delegating.. and not being a detail man. What Reagan did was find people who were superb at accomplishing goals.. He then set the goals. Then got out of the way of those he put in charge. His people consistently fulfilled the assigned tasks... much to the surprise of the media.

Those that only have ambition and refuse to admit their short comings and compensate, usually do no harm. That is, unless a bad situation occurs on their watch. Had either the Mayor or the Governor had the skills required to accomplish major tasks.. the problem in New Orleans would have been averted. But neither did. Their ambition demanded they stay in absolute control, but their inability to accomplish saw to it the problem was not handled at all. It was a disaster.

----------------------------------------------------

I too tend to think there is some sort of power structure that is in control of a lot of our destiny. I was well into my adulthood when I discovered that in nearly all situations no one is in charge. That no one is calling the shots.

Or as my daughter, the lovely Ms. Pamela is won't to tell me.

"No one is in charge, Dad. Stop looking for a sinister plan! .... Excrement Just Happens!"

I think she used the word ... "Excrement".. but I could be mistaken.
48 posted on 09/16/2005 6:29:09 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Molly Pitcher; MozartLover

Sarah told me "use your butt and sit on it".


49 posted on 09/16/2005 6:30:32 AM PDT by lysie (I'm a George Strait junkie. Ah-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country.Ha-ooh-hoo, play somethin' country)
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To: gulfcoast6

You've got mail!


50 posted on 09/16/2005 6:31:57 AM PDT by oldngray
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