MNF - Colts vs Steelers

Trying to lecture a Bears fan about how rushing is done is silly though not as silly as thinking running either more earlier would have done anything to the Colts as it was the Steelers had time of possession which has no impact on teams which score quick and often. And running early for minimal gains while the other team scores is NOT a prescription for success.

I have seen many great running backs and Bettis was one he is not even good now. Staley never was great and is barely good now. Neither would be a starter anywhere else. Neither will be with the Steelers next year.

I certainly have no "axe to grind" about either but am not blind. And you just dismissed the facts I recited as irrelevant. But as a fan you have every right to overrate your team just don't think everyone else will.

Good for them, don't really care what they say, I say they have a soft schedule, especially for their defense. People tout how few games they've allowed 100 yards rushing but ignore how few of the teams they've played (Jax, Cinci, and Pitt) get 100 yards rushing against anybody.

New England is a playoff team because the AFC East sucks almost as bad as the NFC West, it's likely that they're going to be the only team in the conference to finish 500 or better, the only other division they'd make the playoffs in is the NFC West, without those 6 games against sucky teams there's no way they'd hit 500. They are not a tough team this year, again 31st ranked defense, they stink, the Colts moved the ball at will against them. I don't dismiss it, they got an emotionally important monkey off their back, but the facts are the facts and the fact is that by the time the Colts faced their New England monkey this season the monkey had lost one leg one hand both eyes and it's tail. The Colts brought the flashiest pass offense in the league up against the 2nd worst pass defense in the league and the predictable happened. I'll dismiss any 10-6 team that plays most of it's wins against teams that finish under 500, I did it two years ago with the Cowboys (8 of their 10 wins came against sub 500 teams and in order to prove how bad they were they stank last year) and I'll do it to the Pats now.

Seattle has the tie breaker against both Carolina and Chicago (better conference record) so they're functionally a game and a half up, if they win one game they've locked up their division (if the Rams had lost last week they'd already have locked the division) and their next 3 games are against Philly, San Fransisco and Tennessee. If Chicago and Carolina both lose 1 more game in that stretch than Seattle does they've got a lock on 1st place in the conference.

Indianapolis as has a better conference record than Denver so they've got the tie breaker, if they're 14-0 going into week 15 and Denver is 12-2 Indy has a lock on first place in the conference.

You contradict yourself and don't even realize it. If you don't grasp how running early and often softens up a defense for later success (as discostu has explained about 8 times today), then you really do need someone to explain to you how rushing is done.

But he's tried and tried and you still don't get it.

But the other team wasn't scoring much, that's part of the point. Throw away 1 bad play at the beginning of each half (Taylor's blown coverage and the idiotic onside kick) and the Colts get 4 FGs, combine that with ball controlling offense and wearing down the opposing defense and that IS a prescription for success.

You also seem to forget that Bus got hurt in the pre-season, he's not playing at 100%. Sure they wouldn't be starters in other teams, they're not starters in Pitt, but they'd make the roster. They probably will retire, but if they want to come back (especially the Bus who's been so loyal to the team for so long) there will be room for them. Remember who's idea it was for Bus to take a reduced roll last season, he knows he's at the tail of his career but he's still able to contribute and the Rooney family respects that kind of loyalty.

You obviously do have an axe to grind, you're obsessing on saying bad things about one of the best back in the history of the league who is still contributing to his team. You haven't recited any facts, you've recited your opinion over and over in more and more insulting ways. The FACTS are that big back are tougher to tackle and wear down defenses more quickly, that Bus and Staley both still contribute to the team, and that if the Steelers had actually played Steeler football they had a solid chance to win. Bad coaching cost them the game and that's not overrating anybody, the only overrating going on is worshipping the Bears who've excelled against weak schedule. I respect the Bears for accomplishing what they have but thinking it makes them a Superbowl bet is serious overrating.

What do you think I watch every Sunday? Running often and early is nothing new, unique or different from what I see the Bears do. However, if they get down by a touchdown or two early it doesn't matter if the opponents defense is tired in the fourth quarter, if they are behind by three touchdowns they will lose. Now if they had a qb like Manning and receivers like the Colts they could come back but not teams that are not explosive.

Trying to run with over-the-hill rbs like the Steelers is just and exercise in frustration. I was not arguing about the concept just the backs being touted to do the job. In fact, if you wanted to see excellent examples of how to do this you could have watched Thomas Jones and Adrian Peterson run about 25 times in the first half then see Cedric Benson get the ball ten times in the second. It worked like a charm until Benson got hurt. Or watch Payton pound the living hell out of a defense throughout the game until it collapsed from exhaustion in the fourth quarter.

Rushing teams are all I ever saw.

Bettis has fewer yards rushing than Adrian Peterson of the Bears his average gain is less than three yards per carry. These are the real facts. Being hurt is part of getting old he was hurt last year too. There is no disrespect in stating this. I have already said he was a great back and will be in the HoF but now it is over. Stating my well founded opinion is NOT saying "bad" things about Bettis. Nor am I "obsessed" with him just think it a shame to watch a great player playing past his time. And disagreeing that they would make many rosters is not disrespect either. If you want to talk about obsession what do you call your blind defense of their performance which has been lousy this year? Both are also injury prone the last few years is that my "obsession" or a reality?

Peterson is an option back. No Bus wasn't hurt last year, Staley got hurt last year forcing Bus to go from his short yardage roll that he volunteered for to being the feature back, had his best late season in years because he was fresh. there is disrespect in saying the person wouldn't make any other team, which is BS as well as being disrespectful.

When your completely UNFOUNDED opinion is that he shouldn't even be in the league that is saying bad things about him, and the fact that you keep coming back with more and more wild accusations shows you are clearly obsessed. If you werne't obsessed with it you would have dropped the discussion before lying and saying he was hurt last year, you would have dropped it before saying he shouldn't be in the league, and you would have dropped it before recasting your statement into saying he wouldn't be a starter anywhere else (another factual fallacy since he isn't technically a starter on the Steelers).

They're performance hasn't been lousy this year (more sayin bad things about a player, more lies, more obsession, more groundless opinion). Bus is focused on being a short yardage back, has been since they brought in Staley. Injruies happen to runningbacks, again Bus is in his 13th year playing a position where the average career is 7 seasons, the fact that he can still get 3 yards a carry 6 years after 90% of the other people playing his position can't even suit up shows he's a good back even now. And since Bus didn't get hurt last year then it's hard to sell as a "fact" that he's been injury prone the last few years.

You've now devolved from being factless to outright lies. Ultimate proof of obsession and being wrong. Drop the subject and stop embarassing yourself.

When the running game is working, it opens up the passing game. This is elementary. The Steelers under Big Ben in the last 2 years have been able to be "explosive" as you put it. But that requires the establishment of the running game first. The Steelers were only down by 9 at half, should have been 6 (getting called for an illegal block while making a tackle is sure to be "apolgized" for by the league). There was no reason to start going pass happy.

Trying to run with over-the-hill rbs like the Steelers is just and exercise in frustration. I was not arguing about the concept just the backs being touted to do the job.

Try watching the Steelers some other Sunday. We've had success with these backs this year (except Staley coming off an injury). This game was an anomoly. You want to judge the entire backfield based on one game against a superb team and behind an injured line. That's not rational.

Bettis plays a specific role on the team that is not always reflected in numbers. Without seeing this in person, you can't tell it from the stats.

He had a game last year where he played an instrumental role. He ran the ball 4 times for 1 yard while scoring 3 touchdowns.

It is hard to keep straight the injuries Bettis has had for one NOT obsessed with him but I am not LYING about him merely mistaken. He hasn't had a thousand yard season in years and that was standard when he was younger. According to the NFL he has gained 173 yards this year. Wow what an asset. I didn't say he would not make ANY team just not MANY teams.

It is amusing to watch you get vitrolic and hostile trying to defend a back who almost has had a two hundred yard year.

He spent the first half of last year (and much of this year) as a 3rd down and goalline back, you're not going to get 1000 yards rushing that way (his first game last season he netted 1 yard rushing and got 3 TDs, when you've got that little room on the field it's hard to stack up the yards). This is the 3rd year when he's been functionally not the feature back (2 years ago the Steelers went to a pass-centric offense so even though he got most of the carries his total number of carries dropped dramatically, he wasn't the feature back last year until Staley got hurt around the halfway point, and when they found out about Parker at the end of last year and in the pre-season this year Parker became the feature back). You're not going to get 1000 yards if you're not a feature back. 7 times this year Bus has been given the ball on 3rd down, 4 of those times he converted; 22 times this year he got the ball on 2nd down, 8 of those times he converted. That's an asset, whether you're willing to admit it or not.

was about as effective as a MAC second string LB after his knee injury. Witness his production (and quick release) in Carolina ....

Bud, get a clue - It was not a knee injury that ended Lloyd's career it was a staph infection!! brought on by a dirty Steelers needle when Lloyd rolled his ankle in week 10 or 11 in 97 (a full year and a half after the knee injury you speak of) -

And of course while Lloyd wasn't having a typical "Lloyd" like year much of 97.....he was just voted team defense player of the month (and like sporting news def player of the month) for his 3 performances just prior to his ankle injury (for which he took a pain killer shot from the Steelers medical staff and tried to return to the game) - I think it was Vs Phila?

From this routine ankle injury Lloyd developed a life threatening staph infection which kept him in the hospital for over two weeks! He lost close to 40 pounds!

Of course Lloyd never made any excuses he simply tried to over come it. But the damage done to the muscle (atrophied..sp) was too severe for him to ever return to old #95 true form.

However the Steelers ASKED him to return if possible. Once he worked his as$ off to get back into shape and into 70% of himself he passed the "team medical exam" (and thus, saved the Steelers over $3 million had his injury not allowed him to return / pass a team exam) -

What did the Steelers give Lloyd for his efforts - They cut him! Once he passed their exam and they were off the hook for the $3 million.

That is dirty pool. Plain and simple.

A great quick tribute a proud Steeler fan put out regarding Greg Lloyd. Says everything one can about the man as a football player.

It all comes back to that '95 preseason hit on Brett Favre...

I can think of only one other Steeler LB who played every single down of his career (preseason or otherwise) with the same unbridled intensity as Greg Lloyd... I suspect we ALL know to whom I'm referring. Turf toe of all things finally brought down the mighty Jack Lambert, so there's certainly no shame in the probable demise of Lloyd's NFL career coming at the hands of a life-threatening staff infection. Still, it was hard to let go of Lambert... it will be difficult to say goodbye to Lloyd.

Five Pro Bowls. Two Steelers Team MVP awards. Not to mention the less formal, completely unofficial title of the ''Nastiest Man in Pro Football''.

Intimidation. Domination. Power. Leadership. The heart and soul of the greatest defense of the last decade. An uncompromising love of the game. An unrelenting hatred of the enemy, and in particular, the quarterback. The never-ending barrage of "Mutha-F#&%er". Blood & sweat... but never tears. All of these things describe what Greg Lloyd has symbolized to me as a fan. And all of these attributes were perfectly summed up in one fleeting moment during a meaningless ball game... the '95 preseason hit in which Lloyd absolutely leveled Brett Favre, knocking him out of the game.

''The hit'' earned Greg Lloyd a healthy fine handed down by the powers that be in the league office. Nevermind that the hit was clean. Nevermind that the hit epitomized what NFL football is supposed to be about. Nevermind that the victim himself (Favre) said it was a great hit. Greg Lloyd's style of play was examined and labeled as ''to rough'' for the roughest game on the planet, so Paul Taglibue deemed it necessary to make an example of Lloyd. True to his legend, Lloyd didn't give a shit. It just made him even nastier. This, more than anything else, is why I'll miss him.

At the price? Going into last year when Bus volunteered to take a lesser role he also volunteered to reduce is check to slightly over league minimum, admittedly league minimum for a 10+ year vet is pretty tasty but it's less than 1/53 of the cap so it shouldn't be too hard to afford unless the team is in cap trouble from deferred salary.

Thomas and Allen were both supposed to be feature backs, if your feature back isn't putting up big yards that's a problem, Bus isn't a feature back anymore.

Then they must have been charging too much, which is fine, but that isn't the case with Bus. He deliberately made himself affordable and does plenty to earn his salary, including stepping up to the plate to become the feature back last year when Staley got hurt and finish the job of getting their run oriented offense into the playoffs. And given how weak the Bears offense has been for the last few years they've done a fine job of establishing that they don't actually have a good eye for talent, so frankly "not able to make the Bears" is a compliment.

Sorry but the Bears problems offensively have little to do with talent and everything to do with not being able to keep a qb healthy. Having Orton start 11 straight games is little short of a miracle. You complain about Maddox but Maddox on the Bears would have been a great step up.

We have had qbs go down sliding, running out of bounds, running a qb sneak. Stewart had never been injured until he came to the Bears, Grossman had never been injured either. We even lost one for taking an over the counter nutritional supplement.

Any team facing the qb injuries which the Bears faced would have done nothing either.

If the offense is entirely dependent on one QB remaining healthy it's not a good offense.

I complain about Maddox because he's sucked the two games he started this year. He did OK the year he was a starter and most of his problems then were caused by Mularky changing the offensive scheme to something the team wasn't built for, but this year he's been terrible coming off the bench. Two turn overs in OT against Jax, nothing about the team he's on would have improved that, the team you're playing on doesn't make you drop the snap and it doesn't make you throw a stupid desperation heave on 1st down to a part of the field with nobody wearing your uniform.

Oh yeah, I forgot you guys picked up Stewart, the ultimate proof that the guys in charge of selecting offensive players for the Bears know nothing. Stewart was a terrible QB, the Steelers proved that and anybody thinking Stewart should be given a shot after his terrible years in Pittsburgh was just stupid. And we have QBs running around too, and getting hurt in the process (HELLO Big Ben missed games due to injury twice this year, and we lost Batch, and Ben got his shot because Maddox went down).

Not any team facing those injuries would have done nothing, the Rams lost their starter and 2nd QB in the beginning of the year in 2000 and went on to win the Superbowl. So apparently some teams can overcome losing QBs.

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