Posted on 12/14/2005 11:53:42 AM PST by tmp02
Has anyone heard anything?
Bush's meassage is getting out with greater clarity
Is the dollar gaining ground today?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
See #4.
Something's in the air, yeah.
Did 007 finally kill off Goldfinger?
Climbing gold prices are an important signal that one should immediately BUY GOLD!
Falling gold prices are an important signal that one should immediately BUY GOLD!
A steady gold price is an important signal that one should immediately BUY GOLD!
Gold is a sucker's bet.
According to the gold bugs, this means that it's a good time to buy gold.
The rejection of the fiat valued metal known as "gold" is clear as is shown by it's fall in price today. As more and more people realize that there is nothing to back the value of this widely available naturally occuring metal, they will lose faith in it as a source of financial stability and it's price will drop further.
In fact, as evidence that those who support this un-backed form of valueless metal will go to no ends to keep up the ponzi scheme thrust upon us, I want you to think about this: everyday around the world there are hundreds of mines putting more and more gold into circulation at a profit. How can gold maintain it's value as daily there is a larger supply and less trust in it?
Or is this a bunch of strawman mumbo-jumbo? Anyway, have to go sell some gold. It's the greatest investment in the world and I want to sell mine!
Actually the dollar lost ground today. It is off 3.5% in the past month from year highs. It dropped this morning on news October's trade deficit was a new record high. The gold dollar inverse relationship seems to have disappeared in the past year.
"FIAT VALUED METAL"
LOL!
FIAT METALS LOSE VALUE TODAY
Thus, it truly is a "fiat valued metal". =)
Gold as an investment stinks. The gold pushers are always on websites like newsmax and talk radio.
I have a problem when talk radio hosts read gold ads. When reading an add for gold, they seem to be giving financial advice. Some people who put a lot of trust in the talk show hosts may purchase a large amount of gold and lose lots of money over time. Talk show hosts don't read adds to buy Halliburton stock?
The anti-gold-bugs on this thread are so ridiculous it's hilarious. Gold loses a few dollars in one day and they get this "gold is for idiots!" attitude. Never mind the fact that it has nearly doubled in price in the past few years. They simply HATE to be reminded of that and any time gold loses ground they act like they just won the lottery, even though they haven't won a dime.
Imagine how idiotic it would look if during a major stock market bull ride, someone would come on and say "see! stocks are bad!" every time the bulls took a day off. Well, you don't have to imagine. Just read the anti-gold-bug posts. ;-)
Gold has been an excellent investment the past year. Even with today's loss it is up 14% from a year ago. It has outperformed the Dow, Nasdaq, and S&P 500 by 8-12% from a year ago.
Talk show hosts don't read adds to buy Halliburton stock? I think it may be illegal for individual companies to tout their stocks with advertisements.
I'm sorry, the arguments the goldphiles have are just ridiculous and they do use temporary market news in real estate, the stock markets, and the currency markets to sell their product.
So tell me, if gold is such a good investment, how is it that those most vocal on it's investment potential are those most eager to sell it?
Bwahahaha... that's the guy who was busted for huffing gold paint, right?
I'm pretty vocal about my belief precious metals (gold, silver, platinum) and precious metals mining companies will offer superior returns to most other investments the next decade or so. I have not sold any of these investments.
They do it for the same reasons other brokers do: to make money. They're either buying at a bid price and selling at an asked price or they are matching buyers and sellers and making a commission. If there's more interest in gold, then there will be more buy and selling so they seek to generate interest.
You seem to believe that these guys are selling their own gold.
ML/NJ
Yeah, but his larger problem is that he's a Golden State Warriors fan.
Yeah,
took their profits yesterday and bought Wendy's
Nicely done!
What exactly are those that are "most vocal to sell it", selling? Is it gold bullion? Or gold coins? I think it's the latter for the most part. Do they not make a commission, like a stock broker? So they sell their gold at a profit, allowing them to buy more gold to later sell at a profit again.
Same here. If anyone were to offer my current market price for my holdings, I'd say "thanks, but NO thanks". ;-)
Yeah, but it was at $500 in 1988. It was $620 in Jan 1980. There has been lots of inflation since then.
Confirms for me that Gold is still undervalued.
Just an FYI........Bill Murphy from GATA is on a web-radio show next Mon. (12/19). He'll be on the Nat'l Intel Report (M-F 4-6 PM CST) and it's at www.rbnlive.com then click "listen live" on the left side menu.......then choose which audio service you prefer. NIR is a good program that has covered the effects of depleted uranium on our soldiers, Bush's plan to give illegals Social Security, etc.
In Jan 1980, gold was at $620/oz.
In Jan 1990, gold was at $410/oz. Now it's about $505?
In Jan 1980, Exxon was about $55/share, it's now about $60/share but it's split 4 times since then...meaning you've quadrupled your money in 25 years with a safe stock.
In Jan 1990, Halliburton (the evil empire) was at about $33/share. Now it's $66 and it's split once, meaning again 4 times your money.
In Jan 1990, Walmart was $42/share (now $49) but also split 3 times.
In Jan 1990, Budweiser was at $38/share (now $43) but it's split twice since then.
In Jan 1990, the Dow average was at 2750, now about 10500.
In Jan 1980, the Dow was at 830.
In Jan 1990, the S&P 500 was about 355, now about 1275
In Jan 1980, the S&P 500 was about 108
....but go ahead, keep buying gold.
Any who invest in gold other than to take advantage of market flucuations are idiots. It can be profitable to speculate in just as other commodities like soy beans and corn are but those who invested in 1980 and held on lost their shirts just as any who believe the long term trend will be profitable to them to buy and hold will lose theirs.
Pretty shiney and useful for many things gold is a disaster as a monetary instrument, a guarantee of deflation and slowing economic growth.
Wow. Gee, that never occurred to me...you might be on to something!
....but go ahead, keep buying gold.
It is one of the favorite arguments of the anti-gold crowd to focus on 1980. There is no difference in someone choosing to invest in Gold in 1980 than there is someone choosing to invest in stocks in 2000.
Below are two charts comparing Gold and the S&P 500. The first chart covers 1971 to 1983. The second chart covers 1983 to 2005. In both charts Gold is the green line and the S&P 500 is the blue line.
Looking at the first chart it can be seen Gold outperformed the S&P 500 by nearly 2000% (20x) into the beginning of 1980. After 1980 Gold entered a bear market and as you can see in 1983 was experiencing a bear market bounce. Was it a mistake in 1983 to be arguing the S&P 500 had underperformed Gold by nearly 1100% and anyone investing in the S&P 500 stocks was an idiot ? Was it a mistake to point out that the price of the S&P 500 was still below the price it had been 18 years earlier in 1965 and to stay with Gold for superior returns?
Here we are 22 years after that 1983 comparison. Anyone arguing the S&P 500 was an inferior investment to Gold based on the previous chart in 1983 missed a 1000% (10x) runup into mid 2000 and here we are in the midst of a bear market bounce in the S&P 500. Sure, Gold has underperformed the S&P 500 by 760% the past 22 years and it is still below the peak price of 25 years ago. But the S&P 500 underperformed Gold by 1100% going into 1983 and the S&P 500 was stil below the peak price set 18 years earlier. Anyone buying at those S&P 500 prices in 1983 made a killing the next 18 years.
Buy low and Sell High.... that is the name of the game folks.
When was the Bilderberg meeting?
I'm looking at a price of $700 by 2007 and perhaps higher still after that.
---Confirms for me that Gold is still undervalued.
Or perhaps it's just a lousy investment.
Although the price of gold in 1980 was the big high point, and a little unfair to use that price, I have a major distinctions. It's been 25 years since gold peaked! In 2025, 25 years after the March 2000 peak of the Dow, the Dow will be MUCH MUCH higher than its peak of 11722. Additionally, I picked another date, in 1990. Even the very very lowest point of the 1980s gold was at $300.
SIMON SAYS WHAT You ALMOST make a convincing arguement, but there are 2 key details that are being ignored:
Your chart begins in 1971 with the 2-tiered system, but in people weren't allowed to own gold until 1975, when it was already about $175/ oz.
The second thing is you need to compile both timelines. If you bought gold in 1975 you have about 3 times your money today (not accounting for inflation). If you bought an S&P mutual fund in 1975, at about 90 and it's 1275, you'd have about 14 times your money.
Gee... Thanks !
Your chart begins in 1971 with the 2-tiered system, but in people weren't allowed to own gold until 1975, when it was already about $175/ oz.
I have to admit I was not aware of this so I did a little research. President Ford signed the bill authorizing the private ownership of Gold on August 15, 1974. However, legal ownership aside, Gold still outperformed the S&P 500 by 2000% (20x) from 1971 to 1980. Non-US citizens and organizations were allowed to buy Gold and it drove the price up starting in 1971 when Richard Nixon closed the Gold Window. Gold is legal today for private citizens to own and profit from price appreciation.
The second thing is you need to compile both timelines.
Here is the chart of Gold and the S&P 500 going back to 1971. Based on price performance only, without dividends from any stocks re-invested, they are virtually even in performance. Gold was the superior investment from 1971 to roughly 1993 when dividends re-invested in the S&P 500 more than likely would have made up for its underperformance of Gold.
Gold = Green S&P 500 = Blue
In 2025, 25 years after the March 2000 peak of the Dow, the Dow will be MUCH MUCH higher than its peak of 11722.
I agree by 2025 the DOW will be higher than 11722 but by how much ? And when will it move considerably higher than 11722 ? Will it be next year or 15 years from now? The chart below show the DOW going back to 1929 you can see that the DOW reached a long term peak in 1966 that it did not significantly exceed until 1984. It took 18 years to start a new bull market in the DOW following the previous peak.
I suppose if you consider nearly 100% price appreciation in the past 5 years lousy.
I am not anti-stocks. Not at all. There are indeed profits to be made if you know what you are doing or have someone advising you that knows what they are doing. I also believe gold can be a good investment and it's wise to have it as a part of a portfolio. And, no, I have no gold for sale.
You will never find me mocking stock investors or doing cartwheels when the stock market dips. That's why I can't understand the people who find so much joy when gold slides for a day, even though it doesn't profit them a nickle. Can you explain that?
I'm not doing cartwheels if gold dips, I just don't know why people invest in it and why it is so prominent on conservative websites and
I am hardly being selective when I compare the S&P 500 versus gold from 1975, when gold became publicly available until today. Again gold has gone up about 3x, versus 14 times for the S&P. Adjusting for inflation, especially the massive inflation under Carter, I'm not sure if you have much more money with gold?
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