Posted on 04/18/2006 5:47:49 PM PDT by OakOak
In Ref to the girls locking themselves in the bathroom.
I worked very briefly at a carryout restaurant (with a couple tables) and we had the biggest problems with junkies coming in and doing drugs in the bathroom. Sometimes we had to break in and they were delerious. And, sometimes they'd be in there for an hour. But, the bathroom was the preferred place to snort or shoot up. Would it surprise anyone if these fine young women were doing drugs in that bathroom and at least one of them took too much after drinking earlier?
The DEFENSE is going to go Ballistic if the Medical Center did NOT do the Standard TOX tests to be performed on reported rape victims. They will parade witnesses for unending hours to document that that is the standard methodology.
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I heard or read that when Kim drove the accuser to the shopping center area, and after the security guard questioned them, her boyfriend/pimp, picked her up and took her to the hospital. I think this is when the "rape" took place. If the nurse/doctor insisted there was evidence of a recent sexual assult, why don't they take the boyfriend's DNA and compare it to what they found on her?
I think the key here is....who took her to the hospital? If it was the boyfriend, she and he could have planned at this time to blame the Duke boys for the "rape."
One guest on Abrams (defense attorney not involved) said that her boyfriend took her to the hospital.
However, recent info looks like the police took her to a Psych ward (not her boyfriend) and then she was transferred to the Medical center.
Two important things:
1) the SANE nurse cannot tell WHEN the injuries occured (can't discern between 3 or 30 hours ago).
2) The private area injuries are JUST AS CONSISTENT with Consensual sex as they are Rape. The SANE nurse is basically saying sometimes in the previously 36 hours the woman had sex (anally also). Also typical private stripper shows where sex toys are used create the same exact microscopic tissue damage and leave NO DNA.
Okay, speculating as to a scenario that might fit the apparent facts here:
Someone says something ugly to Kim just after they started their routine. Maybe even shakes a lacrosse stick at her and says something like, "how bout using this, sweetheart? or is it too small for you?" -- you get the idea.
Kim, who doesn't crap from anyone, especially some Dukie, turns to the guy and slaps him a good one. Maybe even makes the comment about his small white manhood.
Kim storms off into the bathroom. The accuser, who isn't at all angry, follows her into the bathroom.
Kim tells her she wants to go, the accuser tries to argue Kim into staying so they can earn some tip money. The two women discuss what to do, and because the accuser is hoping to stay, she starts finishing putting her nails on and painting them, but doesn't get very far before Kim tells her point blank, I'm leaving. The accuser then says okay, but let me call my boyfriend to come get me. She can't reach the boyfriend, and makes Kim promise to give her a ride somewhere to where the boyfriend can meet her.
The accuser may well have taken some kind of drug while in the bathroom. It appears Kim did not take any drugs, because Kim was able to be completely functional for the next hour, driving the car, conversing with the 911 operator, talking to Angel the Kroger guard (she sounds sober on the recording, but Angel smelled alcohol on her breath). Kim seems completely in control of herself during the entire timeline, probably only had a couple of beers the entire night.
Whatever the accuser may have ingested acted upon her very quickly, because while she was able to perform her routine (albeit perhaps somewhat drunkenly), and walk into the bathroom, and put on her fingernails and fingernail polish, and possibly make cellphone calls, nevertheless only 15 minutes later she is literally passing out, falling down on the porch so badly she smears her nails on the rail and cuts and bruises herself, and then just lies there on the ground for a while. And has to be carried to the car by a lacrosse player. And is so out of it she leaves her cellphone and purse on the back porch where she dropped them when she passed out.
So it seems her condition, which may have just started out with a big buzz, got dramatically worse quickly. Almost what one might see with a diabetic suddenly going into insulin shock.
"1) the SANE nurse cannot tell WHEN the injuries occured (can't discern between 3 or 30 hours ago)."
Okay...well that makes sense.
I've been listening to the MSM too much, and they make it seem that the SANE nurse reported that it was definitely a recent (within a few hours) sexual assult.
You may be right. They are some good ideas.
However, since she is seen limping in one shoe (missing right shoe) 2 minutes after arriving - I think the accuser may have been well into getting F'd up.
I, too, have thought that the accuser in an altered state may have TURNED mood wise after she made the smiling call (ostensibly to her boyfriend or pimp). Maybe he had 5 women that he convinced he was dedicated to and he may have informed her he wasn't coming to get her OR that he was with someone else .. It's hard to tell.. But, even liberal media types (Abrams) describe her smiling and using or getting her phone in a picture after the bathroom 27 minute time period of no pictures.
Your explanation is just as plausible. Thanks
No. Michael Cordoza (a respected Defense attorney) and Kobilinsky - a sexual forensics EXPERT that teaches at John Jay COllege in New York both said SANE nurses can't guage between 3 or 30 hours - unless, of course, it's an extreme case.
Cordoza said that every expert he has used will tell you that, for the most part, what a SANE nurse says is consistent with Rape is ALSO consistent with consensual sex.
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I think you are right about Kim. I think she is mouthy and aggressive - personality wise. And that's not unusual for strippers.
In one of the pictures early on she is extending her arm toward on the players - in the action of pointing at someone maybe?
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I'd like to see that photo of the accuser at the back door smiling and holding her cellphone up.
Is she standing normally upright and talking into the phone? In this case I would wonder whether she didn't just lose her footing because she'd had too much drink and hit her head, maybe having a concussion.
Or is she leaning up against (being held up by) the door, face pressed on the (screen?) door, looking completely sh!t-faced? In this case I would think she was drugged.
After going years without seeing that word in print, in the last month, I bet I've seen it a hundred times.
But, possibly, drugged on her own accord.
It's suspicous to me that she's hopping around a missing a shoe and a couple fingernails 2 minutes after arriving. TWO MINUTES,, to me that mitigates away from the team drugging her.
Also, the DA told everything else in his media tour - down to demonstrating on National TV the way the accuser said she was grabbed and restrained from behind. If the DA thought earlier
she had been drugged, I would expect him to pass or leak that too.
Personally, I think he just swallowed her story.. If you look at the description of the events, it doesn't mention her being impaired in any way or being given or offered any substances. The fact that she did NOT seem to offer this IMPAIRMENT to the DA indicates to me that she may be hiding it because it was her own doing. Also, she has at least 3 license suspensions. She has or had some type of substance abuse problem.
It's also possible that she took some drug in her boyfriend's car just as the boyfriend was dropping her off a few minutes before midnight.
Her father said she called him for directions while in the car and before he could give them to her, she said "nevermind, we're there." While her father appears to be embellishing his story as to her injuries, etc. to help her out, it strikes me it is unlikely he would make this conversation up out of whole cloth.
So she was awake and conversant (but perhaps had had a few drinks) at the time they pull up to the house. Could well be this is when she took some drug (11:50), and it only really hit her 40 minutes later (12:30). One would think a drug like that would kick in earlier than 40 minutes.
What kind of drug would account for her being able to do her act and polish her nails, but then literally passed out on the ground, in the car and at Kroger (basically passed out or unresponsive from 12:32 until 1:45) and then at 2:45 she is up and screaming and hollering at Duke Hospital?
Would that fit with Rohypnol or GHB? It must have been some barbituate-like narcotic that knocked her out, or else something else that when combined with alcohol caused a severe blood pressure drop at around 12:32.
Doesn't sound like she took meth, which should have just wound her up, unless she took the meth much earlier and the passing out was a "crash" from the effects of the meth wearing off.
They're great questions. I no nothing about the effects of drugs. I know Ectasy is big in certain circles.. but I have no idea of the effect.
I don't think see necessarily did a good job of applying her nails and polishing them. We also don't know how long she took to do that task.
I doubt it was GHB. Because 2 minutes after arriving she was hopping on one shoe. She has a history of alcohol issues. DWI, 3 license suspensions.. I think GHB with a little too much alcohol can be deadly. It has been known to land people in Comas.
His previous scrape won't matter .. He is charged here with Rape and Kidnapping. If eye witnesses testify he was with them at a restaurant when the rape and kidnapping occured
Well, he couldn't have done it and it won't matter.
His prior record won't come in unless the Defense opens the door with testimony about his character.
Isn't the claimed "stolen $2000" important. If the accuser claims that $2000 was stolen, no $2000 was found, and the accuser has no good story about where she got the $2000, surely that suggests reckless and untruthful accusation. No one was charged with that crime. Doesn't that suggest that the police and prosecutor don't believe that there was, in fact, a theft? It seems like a false theft accusation would compromise the truth of a rape accusation.
I don't know how the prosecutor will explain the $2000.
If a policemen takes the blame and says she was consistent, it'll only have minimal impact going towards sloppy work.
If SHE changed the dollar figure, after maybe the police contacting allure agency and requestioning her.. then there's problems in River City. That goes towards motive and credibility.
Oak, I have been wondering the same thing. Why hasn't her name been released? She's a witness, period.
I had a friend that was a heroin addict (thankfully clean now) and during that awful period, he practically lived in the bathroom. So no, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case with these gals.
The other frustration is that they don't take advantage of the interview to ask critical or important questions. It's always ."How did you feel when....?"
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