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Mother fights hospital to keep baby on life support (Terri's Legacy)
KTEN.com ^ | June 1, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 06/01/2006 7:20:27 AM PDT by 8mmMauser

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To: robertpaulsen
Why would you even consider taking oxygen away from an otherwise healthy and functioning human being?

I'm not the one who would. I don't lable people futile, and decide that they don't deserve to live. I take it from your response that you've determined my fil is one of the people who deserves to live? If so, how did you come to this conclusion? If you learned that he has Alzheimer's, would you change your mind?

61 posted on 06/01/2006 8:49:12 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb

lable = label

Pardon my lysdexia.


62 posted on 06/01/2006 8:53:17 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: GovernmentShrinker
"Where does it say the mother is paying?"

It doesn't and I assume she's not. She acting as though she is, however, by insisting on additional care.

If she is not paying, and if the hospital believes further care is medically futile, then I also assume you and I are in agreement that the hospital should not be forced to pay for any further care and should be allowed to either transfer the baby to a facility that will or pull the plug.

63 posted on 06/01/2006 8:54:51 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: 8mmMauser

Wow, I haven't seen the trolls out in such full force in a long time!!


64 posted on 06/01/2006 8:55:57 AM PDT by Lesforlife ("For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb . . ." Psalm 139:13)
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To: Alberta's Child

Ventilators don't cost a million dollars a month. The expenses saved by killing Daniel would be minimal. No one should be required to provide outlandish intervention, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to kill him either.


65 posted on 06/01/2006 8:57:18 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
That "dividing line" has been changing continuously over time -- not necessarily because of changes in morals (though that is certainly a factor) but because advances in medical technology have resulted in a combination of two factors that make hard cases like this more common: 1) the ability to treat/cure people with increasingly severe medical conditions, and 2) the ability to keep a person alive in perpetuity.

This is why most of the moral questions we face in medical ethics today involve cases that never would have presented much of a dilemma in previous eras -- mainly because the technology and medicine were not available to treat the extreme cases that can often be cured today.

Now it's drawn at a level of intelligence, which is subjective.

No, it's not. It's drawn at a level of body function, brain function, and the prognosis of a patient. I would never support the notion that it is acceptable to recommend different courses of treatment for two different patients based on the fact that one of them has an IQ of 130 and the other is mentally retarded.

How high does it have to get before someone you know is included? Does someone you know have to be included before you see anything wrong with it?

I don't worry about these things because I don't see them as difficult moral questions. There's no such thing as a difficult moral question when you examine them from sound principles.

66 posted on 06/01/2006 8:58:59 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: BykrBayb
"The decision to kill this child is based on his perceived level of intelligence."

WHAT???? Where did you read that the decision to kill this child is based on his level of intelligence?

Lies, lies, and more lies. Is that the only way you debate?

67 posted on 06/01/2006 8:59:02 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: BykrBayb
Here is a rising star in the field of computing the dollar value of life. Dr Death is dead. Long live uuuuhhh death.

Stanford go-getter has become go-to guy for those facing quandaries over new medical technologies

8mm

68 posted on 06/01/2006 9:00:53 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam Tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: robertpaulsen

Although Reeve was severely disabled from a physical standpoint he was able to maintain sound mental functions. If he were permanently disabled and had severely impaired brain function, I suspect he would have been in the exact same position as the infant in this story.


69 posted on 06/01/2006 9:02:00 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: BykrBayb

I know exactly what palliative care is. You just want to be argumentative.


70 posted on 06/01/2006 9:02:05 AM PDT by sinkspur ( Don Cheech. Vito Corleone would like to meet you......Vito Corleone.....)
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To: BykrBayb

The hospital isn't looking to "kill" him. They'd love to have the mother find another facility to care for him -- or at least to start paying the cost of the child's care herself.


71 posted on 06/01/2006 9:03:26 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: robertpaulsen

How is that a lie? He's been labelled futile, not because he isn't expected to live, but because he's expected to live with brain damage. That's the truth that you apparently don't like to acknowledge. Too bad.


72 posted on 06/01/2006 9:03:26 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: sinkspur

So then you are saying he shouldn't get comfort care. That's pretty sick.


73 posted on 06/01/2006 9:05:23 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: BykrBayb
He's been labelled futile, not because he isn't expected to live, but because he's expected to live with brain damage.

I believe the key distinction is that the "brain damage" in question has permanently impaired the patient's ability to breathe on his own.

74 posted on 06/01/2006 9:05:48 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: BykrBayb
"I take it from your response that you've determined my fil is one of the people who deserves to live? If so, how did you come to this conclusion?"

You said he "carries an oxygen tank with him". From that, I assumed he's ambulatory and otherwise lives a normal life.

"If you learned that he has Alzheimer's, would you change your mind?"

It depends. If he has a Living Will that sets certain conditions under which he no longer wishes to live, I would certainly honor that if I were in that position. But since there are many stages of Alzheimer's, I can't make a blanket statement.

75 posted on 06/01/2006 9:08:00 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: Alberta's Child; robertpaulsen
If he were permanently disabled and had severely impaired brain function, I suspect he would have been in the exact same position as the infant in this story.

So much for this not being about brain function.

76 posted on 06/01/2006 9:08:50 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: Alberta's Child

And yet, another patient who can't breathe on his own is entitled to a ventilator. Why is that? Why aren't brain damaged people entitled to the same medical care as anyone else?


77 posted on 06/01/2006 9:10:53 AM PDT by BykrBayb ("We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will give you no rest." Þ)
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To: GovernmentShrinker; robertpaulsen

Oh, no way Miss Belcher is paying for this.

She's an unmarried drug user who neglects her children and has had at least one removed from her custody.

Odds that she makes enough money to pay for her child's health care are pretty slim.


78 posted on 06/01/2006 9:11:49 AM PDT by Xenalyte (It's a Zen thing, you know, like how many babies fit in a tire.)
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To: BykrBayb

There's a big difference between "intelligence" and "brain function."


79 posted on 06/01/2006 9:12:51 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (Can money pay for all the days I lived awake but half asleep?)
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To: Alberta's Child
"Although Reeve was severely disabled from a physical standpoint he was able to maintain sound mental functions."

Yes. Pulling either his ventilator tube or his feeding tube would have the same effect and the "cause of death" would be the same, contrary to your assertion. Which was the reason I brought it up. Your assertion was wrong.

"If he were permanently disabled and had severely impaired brain function, I suspect he would have been in the exact same position as the infant in this story."

But of course. I don't argue that at all.

80 posted on 06/01/2006 9:14:20 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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