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Call Me Godless Ann, But Call Me Republican [retread zotted]
self | today | Jexus

Posted on 06/19/2006 5:46:52 PM PDT by jexus

In thinking about Coulters' new book, I am reminded of the grand review by Whittaker Chambers of "Atlas Shrugged" by the conservative atheist Ayn Rand. He begins:

"Since a great many of us dislike much that Miss Rand dislikes, quite as heartily as she does, many incline to take her at her word. It is the more persuasive, in some quarters, because the author deals wholly in the blackest blacks and the whitest whites. In this fiction everything, everybody, is either all good or all bad, without any of those intermediate shades which, in life, complicate reality and perplex the eye that seeks to probe it truly."

Now, when I comes the "The Jersey Girls", I give Ann a great hurrah, I dislike them as heartily as she does and her comments are well overdue and seem to have made the liberals go wild in fits and spasms because of the truth that she reveals.

What is distressing to me is her sad, moronic description of Darwinism, a simple rehash of creationist claims which are an embarrassment to thinking people. Many works exist that deal with the issue, a good starting point may be the decision of the Republican Judge Jones in the Kitzmiller case. Just beware of getting your science from a columnist.

That leads here to asert that religion is essential to the conservative cause, or perhaps that anti-religion is essential to the liberal one. Check out Michael Crichton in his essay "Environmentalism as Religion" and many others.

I am a Republican and conservative because,-- I oppose Pseudoscience, Epistemic relativism and those disciplines or schools of thought whose truth claims are prompted by the political, ideological and moral commitments of their adherents.

I believe in the great ideas of the Enlightenment, which our founders encased in our constitution. That includes both a hatred of tyranny from an aristocracy and was also deeply suspicious of the power of the churches.

I am for liberty under law, for private property and pluralism. I think these ideas are worth defending by not only intellectual expression but also with military might if need be.

Call me Godless Ann, but call me a conservative.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; annhaters; chat; evolution; godless; jerseygirls; liberalism; vanity; vanitychat; yourmommaisanape
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1 posted on 06/19/2006 5:46:53 PM PDT by jexus
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To: jexus

Who are you?

And why should I care?

By the way, both questions are rhetorical.


2 posted on 06/19/2006 5:47:49 PM PDT by AmishDude (I am the King Nut.)
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To: jexus

What is the difference between you and a libertarian?


3 posted on 06/19/2006 5:48:55 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: AppyPappy

Libertarian's can't win a national election.


4 posted on 06/19/2006 5:51:29 PM PDT by MarkeyD (Make Love, Not Cartoons. I really, really loathe liberals.)
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To: jexus

Call you a libertarian


5 posted on 06/19/2006 5:52:00 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Only stupid people would vote for McCain, Warner, Hagle, Snowe, Graham, or any RINO)
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To: jexus

Me and you are in the same situation. You are not alone here.


6 posted on 06/19/2006 5:53:17 PM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: jexus

Ann is right.


7 posted on 06/19/2006 5:53:32 PM PDT by ladyinred (Liberals are dangerous for America.)
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To: jexus
I thought the book was great. The chapter on school teachers was blistering. The part about the jersey girls, when read in context was appropriate for what she was writing about. The Darwinism part was a bit much for me, but all in all it was brilliant.
 
Freedom of speech, and boyoboy, can that broad speak :)
from one broad to another

8 posted on 06/19/2006 5:54:24 PM PDT by backinthefold (banoonie baloni?)
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To: jexus

Conservatism in the political sense has nothing to do with a belief in God or certainly in special creation. They often go hand in hand, but they're not particularly related.

Let's not forget who we're fighting in the War on Terror. They feel compelled to kill us in the name of their god.


9 posted on 06/19/2006 5:56:49 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: jexus

"Conservative Atheist"... ya right.

How about LIBER-freakin-TARIAN.

Come on, if you have to start off with a blatant falsehood, the rest is a waste of eye-work.


10 posted on 06/19/2006 5:58:41 PM PDT by Paloma_55 (I may be a hateful bigot, but I still love you)
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To: Dog Gone

You said:

"Let's not forget who we're fighting in the War on Terror. They feel compelled to kill us in the name of their god,"

Yes that is the point. If they are liberals I am at a loss to explain their ideas on the equal rights for women amendment among other things.


11 posted on 06/19/2006 6:01:20 PM PDT by jexus
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To: jexus

Republicans are big tent, they welcome atheists.


12 posted on 06/19/2006 6:01:25 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Striving to obtain liberal victim status.)
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To: jexus
Call me Godless Ann, but call me a conservative.

Amen.

13 posted on 06/19/2006 6:01:39 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: Clemenza

Me three!


14 posted on 06/19/2006 6:02:24 PM PDT by DCPatriot ("It aint what you don't know that kills you. It's what you know that aint so" Theodore Sturgeon)
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To: jexus
Ayn Rand was a Conservative? Ummm, ok...if you say so.
15 posted on 06/19/2006 6:02:53 PM PDT by TheWasteLand
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To: jexus
Great topic, but why do you choose to primarily identify yourself by your lack of theistic belief? Do you feel persecuted?

Epistemic relativism

The nature of thought relative to what? You imply an absolute.
16 posted on 06/19/2006 6:04:21 PM PDT by IslandJeff
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To: jexus

In his Farewell Address of September 1796, Washington called religion, as the source of morality, "a necessary spring of popular government," while Adams claimed that statesmen "may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand."

from:
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html


As for the beloved "enlightenment" of secularists everywhere --I suggest you study the horrors that unfolded from that age.


17 posted on 06/19/2006 6:04:54 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: jexus

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the book, which I'm reading from back to front in my weird way. I thought Coulter's synthesis of "Darwiniac" faith was pretty good. What she's saying is that Darwin didn't prove anything any better than the explanation we have for how things are from the Bible. I, too, have a lot of trouble with the idea that a system as complex as a mammal (at any stage of evolution) happened by accident. The more you think about it, the more unlikely it seems. Like the mathemeticians who say it is theoretically possible (and they even say they have theorms to prove it) to flip a coin heads a million times in a row or mutliples thereof. I'd just like to be there for the first 10,000 throws to say I saw it.


18 posted on 06/19/2006 6:06:40 PM PDT by Ironclad (O Tempora! O Mores!)
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To: jexus

Bah!

Ayn Rand was passionate about her Christophobia, etc.

Ann Coulter is funny and outrageous for entertainment purposes.

Surely you can see the difference between irony and philosopy?


19 posted on 06/19/2006 6:06:48 PM PDT by TaxRelief (Wal-Mart: Keeping my family on-budget since 1993.)
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To: jexus
I am a Republican and conservative because,-- I oppose Pseudoscience, Epistemic relativism and those disciplines or schools of thought whose truth claims are prompted by the political, ideological and moral commitments of their adherents.

I believe in the great ideas of the Enlightenment, which our founders encased in our constitution. That includes both a hatred of tyranny from an aristocracy and was also deeply suspicious of the power of the churches.

One of the great ideas of the Enlightenment was Theism. A glib but not entirely meaningless phrase is "the God of the Philosophers". Godlessness, aka "atheism" was thought of as, to get all technical, "off the wall", and my unscholarly impression is that Thomas Paine was considered, well, not parlour company, but acceptable because he was on the right side. (I am very open to correction on this, and am not looking so much for a fight as for information and, ah, "sharing" if you'll pardon the expression.)

I do wonder how one can embrace the ideas of the enlightenment without embracing at least a Deist kind of theism. You are obviously mo' better edumicated than I in philospohy and so forth, but I do wonder how one can eschew relativism without being SOME kind of Theist.

That may be too big, clunky, and messy for Free Republic.

20 posted on 06/19/2006 6:07:00 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (If you find yourself in a fair fight, you did not prepare properly.)
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To: AmishDude

I too am an Atheist, believe in evolution and consider myself pretty much Conservative with a good dose of Libertarianism.

There will be naysayers to each of the "counter conservative" beliefs (Atheism, Evolution and Libertarianism) but those that mock them almost always do so without a shred of understanding.

That's what makes them so easy to dismiss. Well, that and the fact that they're wrong.

Thanks for posting!


21 posted on 06/19/2006 6:07:28 PM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: Clemenza
Me and you are in the same situation. You are not alone here.

he got the zot... now you are alone...

22 posted on 06/19/2006 6:08:13 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: jexus

No way!

You are welcome to be an atheist and conservative but your assertions on darwinism are misguided.

Judge Jones' opinion is proof positive of religious hostility. The idea that intelligent design OPTIONS in Dover's curriculum constituted an establishment of Christianity (not just religion but Christianity according to Jones) is a crystal clear case of the zeal Darwinists have for their Faith.

Its cliche but true. Darwinism was at the core of the highly intellectual philsophies of the third reich. Absent God, the strong will annihilate the weak. Scientists have shown themselves poor arbiters of this possiblity. Darwinism creeps into ethics and dominates.

I support your independent conscience but I do not agree with your assessment of present threats. Dover is a bad example.


23 posted on 06/19/2006 6:08:18 PM PDT by lonestar67
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To: jexus

Evolution and Christianity are not incompatible, John Paul II made this very clear. Also, when you say that God could not have worked through evolution, you are putting God into your own personal context, and you are denying the power of God to suit your own beliefs. No human being is in a qualified position to say how God does things. If the beast in Revolution is really not a beast, but a human being known in the Antichrist, then why is it that the creation story must be taken word for word, without interpretation, cause clearly, all of the readings of the various apocalypses in the Bible are based on interpretation. And if we are allowed to interpret one thing, but not another, then who is making the call?


24 posted on 06/19/2006 6:08:41 PM PDT by AzaleaCity5691 (6-6-06 A victory for reason)
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To: jexus

Oops, replied to the wrong post. Ahh, well. . . it still works! :)


25 posted on 06/19/2006 6:09:47 PM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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To: jexus
This author misses the point. Conservatism is a big tent. This board is testament to that as you will find atheists, agnostics, Christians, Jews and perhaps Muslims who find amid religious disagreements a common thread of conservatism.

I think Ann's point is that liberalism has substituted its political doctrine as its religious one (in general, of course) and fights non-adherence with a dogmatic fever that rivals the fervor of most any fanatical religious group.

26 posted on 06/19/2006 6:11:11 PM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (I would never belong to any club that would have someone like me as a member.)
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To: jexus

Epistemic relativism

Define morality!


27 posted on 06/19/2006 6:11:35 PM PDT by crghill
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To: Echo Talon

Zotting him might have been a step too far. I was hoping he would respond.

Thomas Aquinas didn't back down from this fight.


28 posted on 06/19/2006 6:12:37 PM PDT by IslandJeff
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To: jexus
What is distressing to me is her sad, moronic description of Darwinism, a simple rehash of creationist claims which are an embarrassment to thinking people.

You left out (in relation to "Darwinism"), poorly-researched and poorly-referenced.

The creationist claims she parrots have been oft-rebutted, here and elsewhere.

Creationist websites are simply not the best places to go if you are looking for accurate portrayals of scientific research.

29 posted on 06/19/2006 6:14:14 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Tennessean4Bush
This board is testament to that as you will find atheists, agnostics, Christians, Jews and perhaps Muslims

But you won't find "jexus" any more.

30 posted on 06/19/2006 6:16:28 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: AzaleaCity5691
Evolution and Christianity are not incompatible, John Paul II made this very clear.

Oh, so now I have to change my views to what the pope says? I'm not Catholic BTW... Some Christians also think its OK to be gay but that doesn't mean its correct.

31 posted on 06/19/2006 6:17:15 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: jexus
Someone called you "zotted."

You're right on the science, though.

32 posted on 06/19/2006 6:21:10 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: Coyoteman

Remember those who were "Making The Trip?" They had a belief system, and they weren't stupid.

Best opening line of a novel, ever: "I always get the shakes before a drop."


33 posted on 06/19/2006 6:22:48 PM PDT by Ironclad (O Tempora! O Mores!)
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To: jexus

Conservatives smoke, conservatives drink domestic beer, conservatives love Nascar, conservatives believe in creationism ... blah, blah, blah.


34 posted on 06/19/2006 6:24:10 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
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To: Echo Talon; PJ-Comix

Story of my life. There is no escape. I am "God's Lonely Man." ;-)


35 posted on 06/19/2006 6:24:18 PM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: VadeRetro

So, Jexus was a deep cover agent, or something? Sometimes I don't get it.


36 posted on 06/19/2006 6:24:56 PM PDT by Ironclad (O Tempora! O Mores!)
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To: Ironclad
Best opening line of a novel, ever: "I always get the shakes before a drop."

That's hard to argue with. But, remember the short story Jubal was dictating in Stranger, which began something like: "We keep Uncle Albert in a bucket. He prefers it that way."

Memory is faulty on the exact words, but I would like to have read that story!


[End thread lightening interlude.]

37 posted on 06/19/2006 6:27:13 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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To: Clemenza

I know several atheists: to-the-button libertarians, most of them. All I can say (as a Christian) to them (and my door is always open) is something they cannot refute: "God Loves You, Too."

And I love you, too.


38 posted on 06/19/2006 6:27:56 PM PDT by IslandJeff
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To: IslandJeff

I love you too. I say that without the least bit of sarcasm.


39 posted on 06/19/2006 6:29:03 PM PDT by Clemenza (The CFR ate my bilderburgers! Time to call for a trilateral commission to investigate!)
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To: Ironclad
Often I don't either.
40 posted on 06/19/2006 6:29:24 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: Clemenza

We're already on the same page. I'm not in the bidness of condemnation.


41 posted on 06/19/2006 6:30:47 PM PDT by IslandJeff
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To: Coyoteman

Front!


42 posted on 06/19/2006 6:31:01 PM PDT by Ironclad (O Tempora! O Mores!)
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To: jexus

I will call you Zoted


43 posted on 06/19/2006 6:33:27 PM PDT by woofie
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To: Coyoteman
Hemmingway's first sentence of "The Old Man and the Sea" is considered the classic example of the opening hook. "He was an old Cuban fisherman who fished the waters of ... and he hadn't caught a fish in a month."
44 posted on 06/19/2006 6:34:53 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Faster than a speeding building; able to leap tall bullets at a single bound!)
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To: woofie

I will now call him/her Zotted ( as that is the more accepted spelling)


45 posted on 06/19/2006 6:35:12 PM PDT by woofie
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To: Echo Talon

I seem to recall that you were a hair's breadth away from being zotted, too....


46 posted on 06/19/2006 6:36:14 PM PDT by 2nsdammit (By definition it's hard to get suicide bombers with experience.)
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To: Coyoteman

"It was a dark and stormy night...."


47 posted on 06/19/2006 6:36:53 PM PDT by woofie
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To: Clemenza

Darwinian evolution and creationism are not mutually exclusive. Both have their place in the existential existence I call my own life. One promotes scientific discovery and advancement while the other nourishes the soul.


48 posted on 06/19/2006 6:36:56 PM PDT by HockeyPop
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To: 2nsdammit

yep, I was suspended for a few days.


49 posted on 06/19/2006 6:37:25 PM PDT by Echo Talon
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To: VadeRetro
Hemmingway's first sentence of "The Old Man and the Sea" is considered the classic example of the opening hook. "He was an old Cuban fisherman who fished the waters of ... and he hadn't caught a fish in a month."

You're right, the opening passage of book has to be a good line. If its poor, it could sink 'er.

50 posted on 06/19/2006 6:39:35 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Stupidity is the only universal capital crime; the sentence is death--Heinlein)
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