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Father kills 4 children, self after spousal dispute (2006 US murder totals - 8788 and rising)
Fort Wayne Journal Gazette ^ | 7/04/06

Posted on 07/08/2006 7:59:32 PM PDT by Libloather

Father kills 4 children, self after spousal dispute
Associated Press
Posted on Wed, Jul. 05, 2006


An undated photo provided by the Gustine Police Department shows twins Alyssa Branscum, 5, left, and Taylor Branscum. The twins and their two other siblings were found dead in their Gustine, Calif., home Tuesday, July 4, 2006, officials said. The children apparently died of gunshots to the head, and their father, Trevor Branscum, 38, died of a self-inflicted wound, Mayor Jim Bonta said. Police Sgt. Vince Inaudi said the children appeared to be sleeping when they were shot. The evidence was consistent with a murder-suicide, but the department planned to conduct a full homicide investigation, he said. (AP Photo/Gustine Police Department)

GUSTINE, Calif. – A man who was seen arguing with his wife Tuesday later killed his four young children with a hunting rifle before turning the gun on himself, officials said.

Authorities identified the dead siblings as Aubrie Branscum, 12; Jacob, 10; and twins Taylor and Alyssa, 5.

The children apparently died of gunshots to the head, according to Mayor Jim Bonta.

Their father, Trevor Branscum, 38, died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Authorities told the mayor Branscum had to reload the rifle before each shot.

Bonta said that the family had lived in Gustine for several years and that police were unaware of any previous problems with the family.

“They were happy; they were doing fireworks together last night,” Bonta said.

The bloodshed came about an hour after a store owner called police to report that Branscum and his wife, Amanda, were having an argument. Police said that as the woman drove away in a van, her husband dove through the window.

Authorities said that after police were called to the Branscum home before 2 a.m., officers saw Amanda Branscum lying in the road uninjured; the father and children were found dead inside the house.


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: 2006; 4; 8788; banglist; children; deathgcultivation; dispute; donutwatch; father; kills; murder; murdersuicide; rising; self; spousal; total; us
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To: lmf
You don't know anything about her.......

Pause, take a deep breath and, please, tell her story. You seem to know what happened...

51 posted on 07/09/2006 5:46:44 PM PDT by Libloather (All global warming is local...)
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To: Libloather

I think this is what we refer to as a "necro-troll." They normally pull up old threads (usually months or years old), claim to know the people in the story, and proceed to tell all of us freepers what a uncaring, cold-hearted lot we are. The signup date on this one is 7-10, which means that they are located in a time zone that is outside of the US -- another indication that they really don't know those involved.


52 posted on 07/09/2006 5:51:47 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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To: RedWhiteBlue; lmf
...the only reason I am posting this is because my brother lost his best friend and Amanda was a wonderful mother that did everything in her power for those kids!!

Kinda sounds like the poster knows someone we don't. We'll see...

53 posted on 07/09/2006 5:55:57 PM PDT by Libloather (All global warming is local...)
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Cross referencing for interesting contrast.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1662127/posts


54 posted on 07/09/2006 5:57:57 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: Libloather
Necro-trolls ALWAYS claim to know the people involved in the story, and try to claim they are an insider. This is just one example of many. There is actually a freeper (can't recall his name) that keeps track of these resurrected threads, all with posters that sign up claiming to be insiders just so that they can chastize us.
55 posted on 07/09/2006 6:04:52 PM PDT by RedWhiteBlue
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Neil E. Wright

Ping


57 posted on 07/09/2006 6:45:00 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: tmog; Neets; Darksheare; scott0347; timpad; Conspiracy Guy; NYC GOP Chick; MeekOneGOP; Fedora; ...

Another troll? I think there are two here!


58 posted on 07/09/2006 6:48:15 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: lmf

How did you just *manage* to find us here?


59 posted on 07/09/2006 6:50:07 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: RedWhiteBlue

Sign up date is set for GMT...it always looks like they signed up the next day when it's later in the day here.


60 posted on 07/09/2006 6:52:41 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: RedWhiteBlue
BS. Based on your signup date, you're not even in the US.

ummmm actually you're wrong. FR goes by ZULU time for everyone's signup date.
61 posted on 07/09/2006 6:52:54 PM PDT by MikefromOhio
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Comment #62 Removed by Moderator

To: tmog

Are you a retread? Have you been banned before? You sure don't act like a newbie who doesn't know the way around.


63 posted on 07/09/2006 6:58:02 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: lmf

THat "U" thing is aways non-natives.

I would normally say "IBTZ" but I think this situation needs some insights from elsewhere.

But knock of the "moron" type insults, newbie.


64 posted on 07/09/2006 6:59:35 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Let them die of thirst in the dark.)
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: tmog

It is a double-troll night.

Adios.


66 posted on 07/09/2006 7:00:41 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Let them die of thirst in the dark.)
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Comment #67 Removed by Moderator

To: tmog
Awe...we would like it if you would stick around and enlighten us. Please


68 posted on 07/09/2006 7:05:35 PM PDT by trussell (Work for God...the retirement benefits are awesome!)
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To: trussell
One doesn't talk to one's GIRLFRIEND at that age
They don't? I know of several people who still talk to their "girlfriends" well into their 60's. You sure take liberties with what you deem to be appropriate behavior. Not everyone lives with the same set of *rules* you have imposed upon yourself

Women who are mature ADULTS, especially with four babies at home, DON'T run to talk with girlfriend after fight with husband.
If you know these adults females, then that says much about you. They aren't WOMEN, just adult females who are still running to girlfriends, instead of running home to their FAMILY, babies and husband.
If mature married women have problems at home, they see their parents, pastors or marriage counselors, especially problems like the one in this article. Running to girlfriends OBVIOUSLY wasn't a solution, since her husband was busy murdering their four babies and himself while she was "visiting her girlfriend."

Those are not *rules* of mine -- those are just facts of life.

You give a lot of "maybes" in your response. THAT IS WHAT I BEGAN WITH.....I was "wondering" about her. But perhaps you didn't *read* all of my responses, only the ones you didn't like. I am not *surprised* at that, not at *all*.

Anyway, WONDERING was my FIRST premise and I stick with it.

69 posted on 07/09/2006 7:31:12 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: GoLightly
Some stories have Andrea Yates mentally ill. Some don't.
If she was mentally ill, then her husband SHOULD take some blame because he allowed the birth of FIVE babies to his mentally ill wife.

Some stories have Andrea Yates normal. I find that hard to believe. I also find it hard that husband had no clues. Mind you, men are usually busy at work, but not to see ANY clues? I don't buy that either.

Andrea Yates didn't kill herself...and that says volumes. She was NOT suicidal, like this father. She just killed her babies and cried. She's still crying.

This father was desperate enough to put an end to HIS life as well as those of his babies. There SEEMS to be more differences between the two than similaries, but I'm sure YOU have it all figured out. Lol.

------------------------------------------------

1. Seriously, you need to work on your understanding of personal boundaries.
2. There was nothing that she did or could have done to *make* him do this.

1. What have "personal boundaries" to do with his murder or with anything on this thread? Or is that a catch phrase that you try to work into your puerile scolds? Your thinking is as nonsequiter as can be.
2. I NEVER excused his murders in any way....NEVER. You are reading your own words into what I wrote and that is just wrong.
I don't know where you get the arrogance and meaness to accuse me of that and I don't know if you do it out of malice or stupidity or both. How dare you? You should be ASHAMED of yourself for reading such an evil idea into my words.

70 posted on 07/09/2006 7:43:31 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: pollyannaish
The only innocent victims in this entire story are the children.
Beyond that, we do not know.

You are correct.

I DID start out with "I was wondering."
From that wondering, one sick poster accused me of excusing the father from the murders.

This IS a discussion site, isn't it? :o)

71 posted on 07/09/2006 7:46:40 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: lmf
I have read all of these statements and for U people that are putting Amanda down are incredible ignorant! That woman no matter what did not deserve this to happen! Her husband regardeless of the circumstance took the lives of their children. My parents live in Gustine and my brother was Jacob's best friend!! You have no right to bagger Amanda. Saying she should have known or that she should have seen this coming. U Morons that are not reading everything are not getting the story. Her husband and her had an arguement she then decided to call a gfriend to pick her up so they can both get control of themselves. She did not leave her kids. She was not injured because she was not there when this happened she was with her gfriend. She returned home to find her husband dead in the kitchen. She then ran out of the house hysterically trying to get some help and she fainted on the floor. UNINJURED BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT THERE!!!!!!!!! I think we should be grieving the death of these 4 innocent children not trying to play detective and start pointing fingers at she should have done this or that. You do not know what you would do in that situation. I think this pathetic and the only reason I am posting this is because my brother lost his best friend and Amanda was a wonderful mother that did everything in her power for those kids!! U don't know anything about her.......

Perhaps you might benefit from some conversation with your parents, minister, school counselor or someone you know, love and trust. Perhaps THEY can help you through your grief.

Reading a discussion thread on the Free Republic about these deaths is probably the worst thing you can do.
But don't take MY word for it. Ask your parents.

72 posted on 07/09/2006 7:55:44 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: RedWhiteBlue
Necro-troll?
That's a new one on me.

Thanks for the heads-up.

73 posted on 07/09/2006 7:58:13 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923; GoLightly
Yes it is. BTW, I think that GoLightly said the most important thing on this thread: We are all responsible to disarm our own buttons.

IMO, that is a brilliant, succinct way to say it and it is exactly why I love learning from these discussions!
74 posted on 07/09/2006 8:19:52 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: GoLightly; starfish923
GoLightly, thanks for sticking up for me and my daughter.

My daughter stayed in her marriage because she believed that marriage was FOREVER. She knew if she told us what he was doing to her we would have forced her to leave him. Her husband threateded suicide on a regular basis often with a gun right beside him. My daughter stayed because she said she would never be able to live with herself if he killed himself because of her. She finally got the courage to leave when she started to fear for the safety of her children.

Starfish, spousal abuse often happens slowly and gets progressively worse. The abuser browbeats the victim into believing they deserve the abuse. Also, financial reasons keep people together even if they desperately want out. There are not nearly enough shelters for abused women to use for escape. I don't care what you say or how brave you think you are. If you thought a crazy relative might come murder your daughter or your grandchildren, who lives with you, you would be afraid, too.

Talk is cheap. Walk a mile in my shoes or the shoes of an abused wife and you will see there are no simple answers.

Starfish923, while you are doing all your praying maybe you should pray for a brain and a heart. You know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.

75 posted on 07/09/2006 9:53:09 PM PDT by jamaly (I will never forget 9-11-01!!!!)
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To: starfish923

Your head is soooo far up your butt I don't know where to start. When I married my ex he liked a drink now and then, by the end of our 16 year marriage he was a raging abusive alcoholic. One of his "buttons" I pushed was telling him the weather forcast before he left for work. Tell me how to avoid things like that. Many people still believe that marriage is forever and we don't end it unless our life is at risk. How do you know when someone is going to snap. It must be convienient being psychic. Most of us are not so blessed.


76 posted on 07/09/2006 10:35:53 PM PDT by BruceysMom
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To: BruceysMom

Oh PS I have had the same best friend since I was sixteen. I am now forty eight. When anything bad or good happens I call her first. She's the person that knows me best and will tell me the truth instead of what I want to hear or what she feels she should say. I trust her most of all. Too bad you don't understand that kind of friendship.


77 posted on 07/09/2006 10:48:08 PM PDT by BruceysMom (I'm hot & not in a good way: menopause ain't for sissies)
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To: hellinahandcart; lmf

"You have no right to bagger Amanda."

Let's bagger lmf because it can be done...;)


78 posted on 07/10/2006 6:12:01 AM PDT by bwteim (bwteim = Begin With The End In Mind)
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To: starfish923

Am I reading the article wrong...sounds to me like the kids were his, and she was the step mom????

Becky


79 posted on 07/10/2006 6:26:56 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: pollyannaish
Yes it is. BTW, I think that GoLightly said the most important thing on this thread: We are all responsible to disarm our own buttons.
IMO, that is a brilliant, succinct way to say it and it is exactly why I love learning from these discussions!

Well, HALF of it is true. So it's HALF-brilliant, HALF-succint. Remember, it always, always and always take TWO to figh.
Are none of us responsible for NOT pushing buttons?
You may not be aware of it but button pushers are bullies, control freaks who know the vulnerable spots in people. They attack, tease, provoke and otherwise rile people up because that's what they do.

I've been a teacher since 1969 and have taught ALL grades but have been at the college level for the past 20 years.
I've seen the provacateurs do their nasty, vile, evil work on the weakest, most vulnerable and GIRLS are just as prone to bully as boys, but in a MUCH different ways. Girls tease, ridicule, mock and otherwise push buttons as nastily as boys.

It seems to me that NOT pushing buttons, or NOT provoking, teasing, etc., is the OTHER half of the equation.
Provoking is mean, controlling and manipulative....especially when the provoker knows FULL WELL what s/he is doing. There are NO worse button pushers than spouses because they know the full breadth of their words and actions. I also include actions like: NOT talking (the silent treatment), ignoring, sulking/brooding (worse than mere pouting), walking out and such....REMEMBER, these are done as button pushing.

Are you LOVING this lesson too? These are lessons that most of us learn in our teens. GoLightly and you seem NOT to have learned THIS other HALF of the equation.

I do agree that we are all responsible to disarm our own buttons, including those buttons that TAKE AIM at others' buttons. So, if what SHE said is the "most important thing on this thread" then you also are HALF right. Now, go for the OTHER HALF.
Without doing that then the discussion only HALF said and HALF done.

80 posted on 07/10/2006 6:48:26 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: jamaly
GoLightly, thanks for sticking up for me and my daughter.
My daughter stayed in her marriage because she believed that marriage was FOREVER. She knew if she told us what he was doing to her we would have forced her to leave him. Her husband threateded suicide on a regular basis often with a gun right beside him. My daughter stayed because she said she would never be able to live with herself if he killed himself because of her. She finally got the courage to leave when she started to fear for the safety of her children.
Starfish, spousal abuse often happens slowly and gets progressively worse. The abuser browbeats the victim into believing they deserve the abuse. Also, financial reasons keep people together even if they desperately want out. There are not nearly enough shelters for abused women to use for escape. I don't care what you say or how brave you think you are. If you thought a crazy relative might come murder your daughter or your grandchildren, who lives with you, you would be afraid, too.
Talk is cheap. Walk a mile in my shoes or the shoes of an abused wife and you will see there are no simple answers.

Fine talk from a major-league enabler. You've made all the standard excuses for a woman staying with an abuser. Abusers are evil but so are the spouses who stay with them and allow the abusers to CONTINUE to destroy their lives and the lives of their most vulnerable and innocent children.
Those children LEARN how to deal with life and its problems from their dysfunction parents and grandparents, the abuser, the abused and the enabling extended family. The cycle will continue, thanks to thinking like yours.

I can very easily understand how your daughter stayed with that horrible, vile bastard. You helped keep her there with your own lack of courage.
I've heard ALL the standard excuses of weak people. I've also heard and seen the strength that people have to get out of these horrible, dangerous and CHILD-DESTROYING marriages. Help from family is crucial.
Your daughter made my point for me. She DID find the courage. She DID get the backbone. She DID the right thing because she stopped thinking of HER feelings and put HER CHILDREN first, as she should.

I hope she learned that NO "marriage is forever." NO faith expects people to stay where there is the kind of abuse that kills or irreparably damages.....NO faith. ANY clergy would have urged your daughter to end the dread, fear and abuse.

Starfish923, while you are doing all your praying maybe you should pray for a brain and a heart. You know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.
1. Right. You OBVIOUSLY haven't read my posts because COURAGE to do the right thing was right on my list. If you HAD read it, you wouldn't have written such a foolish thing.

2. Right. So, it's a one-way street with you, all talk, scold, lecture and no reading from sources you don't like or don't feel like reading. Nothing IN, everything OUT.

3. Right. You insult me personally (ad hominem) because....because you have nothing left to argue so you go ONE STEP farther and insult. That shows YOUR character, upbringing and manners.

81 posted on 07/10/2006 7:10:41 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: BruceysMom
Your head is soooo far up your butt I don't know where to start. When I married my ex he liked a drink now and then, by the end of our 16 year marriage he was a raging abusive alcoholic. One of his "buttons" I pushed was telling him the weather forcast before he left for work. Tell me how to avoid things like that. Many people still believe that marriage is forever and we don't end it unless our life is at risk. How do you know when someone is going to snap. It must be convienient being psychic. Most of us are not so blessed.

You really ought to get some therapy, couseling or have a LONG chat with Dr. Laura.

They will ALL tell you what you so obviously STILL don't know. There is nothing "psychic" about spotting a drunk or a psycho. There is nothing "psychic" about common sense.

Some GEMS from Dr. Laura (I listen to her on my way home from work.):
*Knowing someone at least a year and a half before marriage will tell you almost everything about a person.
*Family and friends will often see what the most blind lover won't see and listening to those who love you the most is crucial.
*Meeting someone through family, friends or church is often a good way to meet someone. Can you guess why or do you need a crsytal ball?

Are these revelations of the "psychic" to you? Are you so unblessed as to not possess any common sense? I hope not. If so, then you are doomed to repeat your mistakes.

You REALLY show YOUR character, upbringing and manners when you start off a post with an insult. Shame on you.

82 posted on 07/10/2006 7:21:15 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: BruceysMom
Oh PS I have had the same best friend since I was sixteen. I am now forty eight. When anything bad or good happens I call her first. She's the person that knows me best and will tell me the truth instead of what I want to hear or what she feels she should say. I trust her most of all. Too bad you don't understand that kind of friendship.

You know, you sent this to YOURSELF. I just happened to see it. I actually DO read through the thread. Lol. Your emotions seem to have the upper hand in this.

You continue your insults by assuming that I don't understand "that kind of friendship."
I'm happy that you have such a good friend.
But your character, upbringing and manners are showing again. You have SUCH anger...especially at a total stranger, all for saying things with which you disagree. Perhaps it's time for you to talk to your girlfriend again.
Peace.

83 posted on 07/10/2006 7:26:25 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Becky,
The article assiduously avoids mention of the word "stepmother." She could be.
She COULD also be their mother but using her maiden name.
The article DID say "his" children, but that could be the author's sloth, ignorance....or the truth by omission.
84 posted on 07/10/2006 7:33:17 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Authorities said that after police were called to the Branscum home before 2 a.m., officers saw Amanda Branscum lying in the road uninjured; the father and children were found dead inside the house.

I wonder who made THIS call to the police to the Branscum jome before 2 A.M. The article doesn't say.
It SUGGESTS that someone in the neighborhood saw or heard something from the Branscum home that would warrent him/her calling the police at two in the morning.

Sounds like it might have been a repeat performance for the police visit.

Maybe Anita called them before she collapsed uninjured on the sidewalk.

Lots of holes to be filled in this article.

85 posted on 07/10/2006 7:38:56 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923
The elders in my church assured me that I was marrying the right person, after knowing him for quite a while. Once again your "theory" falls short. I hope someday you find a best friend. My posts, if they have seemed angry are angry at your unwillingness to acknowledge your narrow view of what is right or wrong, what you can or cannot predict. It must be nice to always be right. Blaming the victim is wrong. period.
86 posted on 07/10/2006 7:52:52 AM PDT by BruceysMom (I'm hot & not in a good way: menopause ain't for sissies)
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To: lmf; Darksheare
Hmmm, you sign up to only post to this thread, you rant that we do not know the situation and that you know about these people personally... We have had a few posters like you.

In fact... I was just thinking you may be the same poster....

87 posted on 07/10/2006 8:12:03 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Mr. Franklin, what form of customes did you create in Tiajunna? A beeber, Madam, if you can stune it)
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To: BruceysMom
1. The elders in my church assured me that I was marrying the right person, after knowing him for quite a while.
2. Once again your "theory" falls short.
3. I hope someday you find a best friend.
4. My posts, if they have seemed angry are angry at your unwillingness to acknowledge your narrow view of what is right or wrong, what you can or cannot predict.
5. It must be nice to always be right.
6. Blaming the victim is wrong. period.

1. You got ASSURANCE from the elders that he was the right person? Wow. How would they know?
Again, you got it wrong.
ADVICE, not assurance. NO ONE knows to the point of ASSURANCE how people really are. You wanted ADVICE. How about asking your own family, HIS family and friends, his boss, co-workers? They might have had more insight than the Church elders in that they might have known him better. Perhaps your girlfriend ASSURED you or ADVISED you that he was the right man. If so, they were all dead wrong. Strange that ALL of them were TOTALLY fooled by this one person. In fact, I really don't know if I believe you or not.

2. I have no "theory," just common sense. So I am right again and you are wrong again.

3. More insults. Your character, manners and upbringing, or your lack of them, ALWAYS seems to come through. Perhaps some people simply can't change some things.

4. And here come the excuses for bad behavior and sour words. Excuses for your bad manners....that is also learned behavior.

5. I don't know; I'm often wrong. It's just that with your logic, ideas and thinking, it's SO EASY to be right all the time. All it takes is common sense and life experiences. I AM oldish. I've been a teacher since 1969, 15 years with kids and the rest with college-age adults.

6. I never blamed the victim. But I know that. You simply refuse to read the words as I wrote them. It DID start with "I wonder." Lol. That is WONDERING, not blaming.
But, if you could read with your brain and not your emotions, you might have been able to "get it."

You might consider talking to someone with more experience and wisdom than just your girlfriend. Perhaps to one of those Church elders.
Remember, it's ADVICE you would like, not ASSURANCES. There are few assurances in this world. That too is common sense.

Pax vobiscum.

88 posted on 07/10/2006 8:13:47 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923
No I got ASSURANCE. I pity you. How awful to not be able to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. You are doomed to a life of self righteous selfishness. Now I'm done with you. There is none so blind as he who will not see. Respond or not. I don't care. Someone who would blame a spouse for their spouse killing their children is of no concern of mine.
89 posted on 07/10/2006 8:36:39 AM PDT by BruceysMom (I'm hot & not in a good way: menopause ain't for sissies)
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To: BruceysMom
1. No I got ASSURANCE.
2. I pity you. How awful to not be able to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. You are doomed to a life of self righteous selfishness. Now I'm done with you. There is none so blind as he who will not see. Respond or not. I don't care.
3. Someone who would blame a spouse for their spouse killing their children is of no concern of mine.

1. I wonder at anyone ASSURING another human being about the furture actions of any person. I thought that only GOD would be able to ASSURE one about a person's future behavior. You seem to have imbued your elders with omnipotence. That is not straight, clear thinking, not at all.

2. Pity away. Coming from you that is merely inane, peurile, misplaced and, I THINK, rather pathetic. Mostly it's nonsequiter. I feel on the right side when it comes from you. I have agreed on NOTHING with you so I would be rather worried if you did agree with me. Lol.

3. Since I didn't blame the spouse for the death of the children, you are not talking to me.
Perhaps, since you seem OBSESSED about putting those words into my post and they WERE NOT there, then perhaps, in your own skewed logic, YOU blame her.
You DO keep driving the point, so I assume that you can't let go of the fact that I DIDN'T say that. Your own obsessions reveal things not good in your thinking and ideas. Tsk, tsk.
Obsession with falsehoods seems to be another sad, sad part of your character. So does denial. But, that's just a guess based on your puerile thinking, emotional responses and inaccurate reading.

Respond or not. I don't care either.

Still, I say to you: Pax vobiscum.

90 posted on 07/10/2006 9:12:42 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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To: starfish923
Fine talk from a major-league enabler. You've made all the standard excuses for a woman staying with an abuser. Abusers are evil but so are the spouses who stay with them and allow the abusers to CONTINUE to destroy their lives and the lives of their most vulnerable and innocent children.

Those children LEARN how to deal with life and its problems from their dysfunction parents and grandparents, the abuser, the abused and the enabling extended family. The cycle will continue, thanks to thinking like yours.

I can very easily understand how your daughter stayed with that horrible, vile bastard. You helped keep her there with your own lack of courage.

I've heard ALL the standard excuses of weak people. I've also heard and seen the strength that people have to get out of these horrible, dangerous and CHILD-DESTROYING marriages. Help from family is crucial.

Your daughter made my point for me. She DID find the courage. She DID get the backbone. She DID the right thing because she stopped thinking of HER feelings and put HER CHILDREN first, as she should.

I hope she learned that NO "marriage is forever." NO faith expects people to stay where there is the kind of abuse that kills or irreparably damages.....NO faith. ANY clergy would have urged your daughter to end the dread, fear and abuse. .

I am not an enabler now nor have I ever been an enabler. The very minute that I heard my daughter was being abused I told her that she was moving in with us and we would help her through this whole nightmare. She was never alone with her husband after that. We had all of her things moved into our house or storage within 48 hours. I took her to a lawyer and also to a domestic abuse counselor at the DA's office. We filed for a restraining order against her husband received an emergency restraining order agaist him immediately. My husband and I have spent over $10,000 paying for the divorce and psychiatric evaluations on her monster husband. He is not allowed unsupervised visits with the children now and we hope he never will be. My daughter was so terrified of the monster that she was literally a "walking nervous breakdown" for months. We had known something was wrong; but, she wouldn't tell us she was too terrified.

For your information my husband and I never, not for one minute, showed our children abuse or alcoholism, cheating or any other disfunctional behavior. We aren't perfect; but, we have been happily married for over 37 years. We don't drink, smoke or cheat. If anything we have been a hard example to live up to.

You truly are a self-righteous jerk and I am thankful that I am not married to you or related to you in anyway. I pity people who have to deal with you on a daily basis.

91 posted on 07/10/2006 9:44:20 AM PDT by jamaly (I will never forget 9-11-01!!!!)
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To: Libloather
Oh Man!

If he wanted to commit suicide, he could've done just that.

Buy why take these innocent children with him?

92 posted on 07/10/2006 9:53:04 AM PDT by Anne of DC (RUMMY FAN BIG BIG TIME!)
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To: starfish923; GoLightly
Actually, I do agree with you on many of your points.

I completely 100% agree with you that button pushers are bullies, and that girls are often exceptionally skilled at it. Completely agree with you that it takes two to create strife in a relationship. Provoking is a terrible thing.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that all of us are both button pushers and button possessors, although to greater and lesser degrees. When we argue and fight, we use this dynamic as a weapon. So ALL of us are responsible for both not pushing others buttons and defusing our own. And that is actually exactly the entire process of successful communication.

I think were we may disagree is to look at a situation like this were children are killed and put a heavy responsibility on the non-involved partner. In any marriage that is breaking up there is a great deal of turmoil. There is a lot of lashing out and button pushing.

However, going over the edge, killing the children and saying essentially the devil made me do it doesn't matter. In the end, we are completely responsible for our own actions no matter who pushed our buttons or bullied us or made us mad. In fact, we can not change other people, we can only change how we respond to it.

It's not that I deny that horrific button pushing happens because it does. And it's not that it isn't an explanation because it might be. What it is not is an excuse for poor (or worse, evil) behavior. My suspicion is that we agree with that and you are wanting to make sure that there is some empathy for those involved. You want us to understand that things like this don't happen in a vacuum. I do.

I would also disagree with you that I didn't learn this lesson in my teens. I think I connected with GoLightly's comment because I am not usually an intentional button pusher (Although I most certainly do it sometimes accidentally as this conversation will attest) but I do get my own buttons pushed far too easily and lash out as a result. What it was is a reminder for me to diffuse those buttons in myself and by doing so I can often do my part in diffusing the situation itself. That is why I connected with it. It was, in fact, simply an acknowledgment of my own weaknesses.

The bottom line is, as adults if we are aware of our own buttons we can better manage our lives in relationship to the button pushers because we too take responsibility for the situation. It is all too easy for those of us who don't push buttons to pass the blame to the bullies and claim victimhood, when we own part of the responsibility for the issue ourselves.

Finally Yes, I am LOVING this lesson too. I learn a great deal from thinking these things through, approaching them from different angles, see alternative perspectives.

You sound like a fine teacher. Thanks for your patience.

93 posted on 07/10/2006 9:54:31 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: starfish923
SHE is lying outside on the sidewalk uninjured? Completely uninjured? I wonder where she was in defending her four babies, that's all. They had more than a mere "argument." And it didn't suddenly start in ONE day. Has she NO part in this? Is she completely blameless in all this? Four babies and one father/husband are dead.....and she isn't even injured.

I have no trouble believing that Trevor Branscum was a controlling, violent, psychotic POS who didn't need anybody's help in getting to the point of doing this.

The mother might well have been weak in mind and spirit, and scared of him. Her "fault" may lie in simply finding, for once, the backbone to stand up to him.

I can definitely see her being completely undone by the murders of her children, and in a state of utter collapse, which would explain why she was lying there "uninjured."

94 posted on 07/10/2006 10:01:43 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: starfish923; jamaly; GoLightly
One more thing. I reread the entire thread from start to finish.

I actually don't see a huge difference in positions between many posters on this thread. Mostly miscommunication resulting from tone and shades of meaning.

But there sure is a whole lotta button pushin' going on 'round here!

LOL.
95 posted on 07/10/2006 10:04:29 AM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: snowstorm12
Trevor Branscum recently lost a construction job and had to take another at $5 less per hour in Modesto. That caused Trimble to seek a job, something Branscum never wanted, she said.

There's a big red flag. Given what came later, I'd say that Branscumbag was a tyrant who lost all control once his wife showed signs of independence.

96 posted on 07/10/2006 10:05:36 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: jamaly
I am not an enabler now nor have I ever been an enabler. The very minute that I heard my daughter was being abused I told her that she was moving in with us and we would help her through this whole nightmare. She was never alone with her husband after that. We had all of her things moved into our house or storage within 48 hours. I took her to a lawyer and also to a domestic abuse counselor at the DA's office. We filed for a restraining order against her husband received an emergency restraining order agaist him immediately. My husband and I have spent over $10,000 paying for the divorce and psychiatric evaluations on her monster husband. He is not allowed unsupervised visits with the children now and we hope he never will be. My daughter was so terrified of the monster that she was literally a "walking nervous breakdown" for months. We had known something was wrong; but, she wouldn't tell us she was too terrified.
NOW you mention those "details." NOW you tell the story.
Dr. Laura always scolds those callers who tell ONLY part of their story, leaving out basic information.....just like you did. She gets SO annoyed when callers ask questions and want advice, for example, and LEAVE OUT, quite deliberately, she adds, EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FACTS....why, just like you did.
It is so unfair to try to respond when only PART of a story is revealed. She has harsher words but, then, she isn't one to mince words.
By the way, you ought to listen to her. She has 22 million listeners every day.
IMHO, you are not only an enabler, but you are manipulative. It's so .... well, never mind, you get my point.

For your information my husband and I never, not for one minute, showed our children abuse or alcoholism, cheating or any other disfunctional behavior. We aren't perfect; but, we have been happily married for over 37 years. We don't drink, smoke or cheat. If anything we have been a hard example to live up to.
I didn't say that you showed them by your own behavior, but you showed them by allowing your daughter to live with that monster. At least, that was the story you said BEFORE. Now, however, you have changed your story by revealing more and more and more.....untold facts.
Typical of manipulators to withhold information.

By the way, good for you in doing what you did. Too bad you never bothered to put that in your original story. Too bad the truth finally comes out MUCH later.

Also, good for you and your long, happy marriage. Too bad for your daughter's horrible marriage and that she had to learn the hard way. But, at least she learned.

You truly are a self-righteous jerk and I am thankful that I am not married to you or related to you in anyway. I pity people who have to deal with you on a daily basis.
You show your character, manners and upbringing, or lack of them, by your insults. THAT is behavior that one hopes you didn't pass on to your daughter. Shame on you.
I haven't called you names, but then, name-calling, or ad hominem, personal attacks, are forbidden on this site.
I knew that. Perhaps, since you SEEM to be reading-deficient, you didn't know that. You do now.

I wonder why you assume that I am a male...more unclear, skewed thinking on your part with assumptions. I am a woman, an older one.

I would be chagrined if I had the misfortune to be related to you, ashamed of your manners, character and upbringing and embarrassed by your emotionalism, PUERILE thinking and TOTAL LACK of clear, straight thinking.

97 posted on 07/10/2006 10:05:52 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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MEOW!!!


98 posted on 07/10/2006 10:10:26 AM PDT by CheneyChick
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To: starfish923
I wonder why you assume that I am a male...

Probably because the rude, arrogant blowhards one normally finds at FR tend to be men.

99 posted on 07/10/2006 10:12:59 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
I wonder why you assume that I am a male...
Probably because the rude, arrogant blowhards one normally finds at FR tend to be men.

Thus speaks another troll-thinking man-hater, crawling out from under a rock. Are you a member of N.O.W.? Are you one of "them," by any chance?

You've spoken volumes for yourself with that sexist, male-phobic remark.

Thanks for illuminating your own character, upbringing and manners so clearly and finally.

100 posted on 07/10/2006 10:53:24 AM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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