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To: starfish923; foolscap
All true and Andrea Yates should get the death penalty, then burn in hell.

Erm, what sentence do you think Mr. Yates should get? The analogy you chose speaks volumes. You associated people in the passion plays by gender, rather than by the roles they played...

I suppose it's the headlines I object too...."marital dispute"?!

The headline is neutral. Seeing anything more in it would come from a reader's perception.

He murders his own children and himself and there might have been a "dispute"? Something doesn't smell right there. SHE is lying outside on the sidewalk uninjured? Completely uninjured? I wonder where she was in defending her four babies, that's all. They had more than a mere "argument." And it didn't suddenly start in ONE day. Has she NO part in this?

Seriously, you need to work on your understanding of personal boundaries. There was nothing that she did or could have done to *make* him do this.

Is she completely blameless in all this?

Unless she pulled the trigger, yes, she is blameless. Due to some red flags that I saw in the news report, she prolly will tend to agree with you, rather than with me. Still doesn't change the fact that 100% percent of blame falls on the one who pulled the trigger.

Four babies and one father/husband are dead.....and she isn't even injured.

While she has no physical injuries, I would hardly say that she is unscathed by this. There is no doubt in my mind, that was the point. Ya wanna shred someone, harm those they love.

It ALWAYS AND ALWAYS takes two to fight. One person alone can't have a "fight," "argument" or "dispute"; it always takes TWO. So if there is a fight, then both are to blame for the fight. That's just a fact.

I disagree. Inadvertently burning the pot roast is not an act of war... Seeing the burnt pot roast as proof that your SO doesn't care about you, is.

Also, when buttons are pushed, they are pushed by someone, KNOWING full well that buttons are being pushed. That goes for spouses, siblings, work-mates, whatever. That's the egregious part of fighting: buttons pushed are pushing someone farther and farther. The button pusher knows this but never knows "how far" the other person will go. That is always an unknown, yet the buttons continue to be pushed and pushed and pushed.

There is one appropriate, healthy response to button pushing. All of us are responsible for disarming our own buttons. Long as we try to lay blame for our reaction on the button pusher, we are handing them power over us.

Some people just prefer to push buttons because they know they can. It's part of the control they have and exercise....especially when THEY don't have the guts, backbone, courage, brains, desire, whatever, to solve the problem WITHOUT pushing buttons. Then when pushed-person goes "too far," the button pusher can ALWAYS say, "I didn't know s/he would go off like that. Besides, it's not MY fault, I didn't pull the trigger." I was just wondering. This wasn't merely a dispute or argument. He didn't simply "go off" one day. I would be hard pressed to believe that she was blameless. I am just wondering, that's all.

Bet he killed the kids as the ultimate act of pushing her buttons... He sure showed her... Unless she pulled that trigger, she was in no way responsible for his actions!

She will weep her way past any blame, naturally. Andrea Yates is doing a good job of it. Humans will do that with women, especially young women....let them weep their way past due process. Practice. It works. Then, she will remarry and have more children. One hopes she will have learned something about disputes, arguments and fighting.

She is not to blame, any more than Mr. Yates is to blame. Do I think she & Mr. Yates were Both enablers? Yes, yes I do. Doesn't mean I place fault on either of them for the horrific actions of their spouses.

42 posted on 07/09/2006 1:21:58 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: GoLightly
All of us are responsible for disarming our own buttons.

THAT is the KEY to a good marriage. Wow. Excellent analysis.

48 posted on 07/09/2006 3:12:17 PM PDT by pollyannaish
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To: GoLightly
Some stories have Andrea Yates mentally ill. Some don't.
If she was mentally ill, then her husband SHOULD take some blame because he allowed the birth of FIVE babies to his mentally ill wife.

Some stories have Andrea Yates normal. I find that hard to believe. I also find it hard that husband had no clues. Mind you, men are usually busy at work, but not to see ANY clues? I don't buy that either.

Andrea Yates didn't kill herself...and that says volumes. She was NOT suicidal, like this father. She just killed her babies and cried. She's still crying.

This father was desperate enough to put an end to HIS life as well as those of his babies. There SEEMS to be more differences between the two than similaries, but I'm sure YOU have it all figured out. Lol.


1. Seriously, you need to work on your understanding of personal boundaries.
2. There was nothing that she did or could have done to *make* him do this.

1. What have "personal boundaries" to do with his murder or with anything on this thread? Or is that a catch phrase that you try to work into your puerile scolds? Your thinking is as nonsequiter as can be.
2. I NEVER excused his murders in any way....NEVER. You are reading your own words into what I wrote and that is just wrong.
I don't know where you get the arrogance and meaness to accuse me of that and I don't know if you do it out of malice or stupidity or both. How dare you? You should be ASHAMED of yourself for reading such an evil idea into my words.

70 posted on 07/09/2006 7:43:31 PM PDT by starfish923 ( Socrates: It's never right to do wrong.)
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