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When Did "And" Become Part of Dates and Numbers? (Vanity)

Posted on 07/16/2006 7:57:39 AM PDT by proudofthesouth

Something that I've noticed alot recently is the use of the word "and" when speaking dates and numbers. Examples:

1. Two Thousand AND Six (2006)

2. One Hundred AND Ninety Five (195)

3. The address is Three Hundred AND Seven (307) ------ Street

4. The temperature in ------ is One Hundred AND Two (102) degrees.

5. The driver qualified at One Hundred AND Eighty Six (186) miles per hour.

I've noticed news, weather and sportscasters all using the "and" word with numbers.

When I went to school back in the 60's and 70's, my classmates and I were reprimanded when using "and" along with a number. When did this change? Is it now being taught this way in schools?


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: and; calendardates; hughandseries; language; numbers; sublimeminutae; sundaydrunk; vanity; wasteofspace
This has become a pet peeve of mine lately. Maybe I'm just being old fashioned......
1 posted on 07/16/2006 7:57:41 AM PDT by proudofthesouth
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To: proudofthesouth

This really needs to be in Breaking News.


2 posted on 07/16/2006 7:58:22 AM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: proudofthesouth

Who knows. Doesn't "AND" used with numbers suggest that there is a decimal point? As in One Hundred and Eighty-Six = 100.86?


3 posted on 07/16/2006 8:00:13 AM PDT by Cyclopean Squid (Being That Guy so you don't have to.)
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To: proudofthesouth

Huh? In the 60's and 70's we said "and".


4 posted on 07/16/2006 8:02:13 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: proudofthesouth

Go for a walk...a long walk...


5 posted on 07/16/2006 8:04:00 AM PDT by dakine
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To: proudofthesouth
To top it off, we also have the logical operator "and".

The old line "2 and 2 is 4" is incorrect if the "and" is a logical operator.

6 posted on 07/16/2006 8:04:18 AM PDT by capt. norm (W.C. Fields: "The time has come to take the bull by the tail and face the situation".)
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To: proudofthesouth
Keyword: SUBLIMEMINUTAE
Love it!
7 posted on 07/16/2006 8:05:01 AM PDT by MaryFromMichigan
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To: proudofthesouth

As far as I know, it is unsafe to write 'and' on cheques, in order to prevent someone from modifying the 'and' into a 'thousand'.



Otherwise, I didn't think it was wrong to use the 'and'.


8 posted on 07/16/2006 8:06:17 AM PDT by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: proudofthesouth

You might be old fashioned, but you are also correct.

BTW, the number between +1 and -1 is not OH.


9 posted on 07/16/2006 8:07:38 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Hurrah for the flag of the free!)
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To: Professional Engineer

its zero my dad beat me centless when i said o instaed of zero


10 posted on 07/16/2006 8:11:10 AM PDT by al baby (Dick Trickle is not a medical condition)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Nope, sorry, and used to be taught NOT to be said with numbers except in conjunction with a decimal point. For instance with money you can say 100 dollars and 24 cents. You are not supposed to say 100 and nine dollars for 109.00. This was true in the 60s and 70s and it is true today. The thing is the dumbing down of America has crept into every aspect of our lives and especially for journalist, they have to be kept ignorant or they would suddenly be aware they are all full of sh**.


11 posted on 07/16/2006 8:18:30 AM PDT by calex59 (The '86 amnesty put us in the toilet, now the senate wants to flush it!)
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To: proudofthesouth

"Four Score and Seven Years Ago..."


See, it's all a Yankee plot from the War of Northern Aggression.


12 posted on 07/16/2006 8:20:38 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: proudofthesouth

I remember, waaay back in the 20th century, the ooold timers spoke of "back in ought six" for 1906. Thought that was a wonderful way to refer to the preteen years.

'Course, we're way too sophisticated to use that term now.


13 posted on 07/16/2006 8:28:51 AM PDT by wizr (Red blooded Americans wear Red on Fridays. Christians show Jesus' blood was spilled, too!)
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To: proudofthesouth

That's english english.


14 posted on 07/16/2006 8:31:24 AM PDT by 1066AD
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To: proudofthesouth
When did this change?

June, twenty and four, nineteen hundred and seventy-three.

15 posted on 07/16/2006 8:35:25 AM PDT by jigsaw (God Bless Our Wonderful Troops.)
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To: mtbopfuyn
***Huh? In the 60's and 70's we said "and".***

Not during the 50's and 60's - at least in IL. Our Math teacher, oops Arithmetic teacher, would beat us (verbally and with 'a look').

One Hundred Twenty-Five
Two Thousand Three Hundred Thirty

With money you put an "and" before the cents, i.e.:

One Hundred Twenty-Five Dollars AND Thirty Cents.
and for a check:
One Hundred Twenty-Five AND 30/100 Dollars

That being said, considering we grew up on the 'Sout-West' side of Chicago, we mostly said 'Hunert' (my wife still does) and other mangleations of the Kings English like; 'over by dare'.

[ but on the 'Nort' side they were much more worse :-) ]

16 posted on 07/16/2006 8:39:35 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: proudofthesouth
Considering that it's a regular part of German (vier und zwanzig = 24) and that English and German seem to have a common origin, I would guess a long time.
Sing a song of sixpence a pocket full of rye,
Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.
When the pie was opened the birds began to sing,
Oh wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?
The king was in his counting house counting out his money,
The queen was in the parlour eating bread and honey
The maid was in the garden hanging out the clothes,
When down came a blackbird and pecked off her nose!
ML/NJ
17 posted on 07/16/2006 8:44:43 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: al baby

He beat the pennies out of you?


18 posted on 07/16/2006 8:47:10 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (Hurrah for the flag of the free!)
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To: Condor51

I usta live jussout of tirtyfif street on Wells by da ball park.


19 posted on 07/16/2006 8:49:36 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: ml/nj

It's a poetic rhythm thing found in archaic writing. It sounds odd, but it seems to be making a comeback in prose--probably to fulfill a need for rhythm that was not being met due to metrical poetry being out of fashion.


20 posted on 07/16/2006 8:51:43 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: proudofthesouth

I think it was calligraphers trying to make a few extra bucks on wedding indentations. You also see it in those real fancy neighborhoods where they spell the address with letters instead of numbers. You get money for each letter.

When the media dose it.. well, like you want them to talk AND think at the same time.


21 posted on 07/16/2006 9:00:38 AM PDT by ThomasThomas (Red is good)
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To: RightWhale
All of the examples I could find in Chaucer's The Canterbury Tales where he refers to a number between 21 and 29:
Wel nyne and twenty in a companye,
Of sondry folk, by aventure y-falle

Of fyve and twenty yeer his age I caste.
His berd was wel bigonne for to springe;

Wher-as he saugh up-on a daunce go
Of ladies foure and twenty, and yet mo;

He coude spare of lechours oon or two,
To techen him to foure and twenty mo.

A! yif that covent half a quarter otes!
A! yif that frere a peny, and lat him go!

Can, in the space of o day naturel,
This is to seyn, in foure and twenty houres,

Which book spak muchel of the operaciouns,
Touchinge the eighte and twenty mansiouns

So lowe, that he nas nat, to my sighte,
Degreës nyne and twenty as in highte.

And ye schul heere good game · of yonge Gamelyn.
Four and twenty yonge men · that heelden hem ful bolde,

ML/NJ
22 posted on 07/16/2006 9:18:39 AM PDT by ml/nj
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To: proudofthesouth
Although I find humor in your vanity thread, I must admit that Yankees are not aware that "You all" when addressing a group is proper grammar while using "Y'all" when addressing an individual is merely an uneducated condescension. Further, the term "I reckon" and "I declare" show good breading while "Youz gonna" and "Yeah, whatareyougunnadoboutdat?" show bad breading.

I once lived north of the MD line, deep in the heart of Joisey.
23 posted on 07/16/2006 9:50:32 AM PDT by sully777 (You have flies in your eyes--Catch-22)
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To: proudofthesouth

Not to be nit-picky, but a personal pet peeve that I have is the misspelling of *a lot* when referring to a good quantity, many -- it's two words, not one.


24 posted on 07/16/2006 9:54:59 AM PDT by MozarkDawg
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To: MozarkDawg

That bugs me alot too.


25 posted on 07/16/2006 9:59:26 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: calex59

Nope? You knew me back in the 60's? That's very interesting.


26 posted on 07/16/2006 10:58:22 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

But that IS a decimal point - of sorts. It indicates the transition from base 20 to base 10 counting.


27 posted on 07/16/2006 11:01:59 AM PDT by patton (LGOPs = head toward the noise, kill anyone not dressed like you.)
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To: sully777
D'OH! "...good breading breeding..." (Hanging my head)
28 posted on 07/16/2006 11:12:26 AM PDT by sully777 (You have flies in your eyes--Catch-22)
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To: proudofthesouth
It seems as if I've spent forever taking Business English, even though it was only two terms. It is improper to use "and" in a number unless it signifies a decimal point. Just like when we were in school in the 60s and 70s.
29 posted on 07/16/2006 11:57:36 AM PDT by BruceysMom (I'm hot & not in a good way: menopause ain't for sissies)
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To: proudofthesouth

I think the "and" when speaking is syntactically more of an extra syllable for pronunciation than a conjunction. The number "110" should not (at least IMHO) be prounced "wun-hun-dreh-dten". Pronouncing the "d" on hundred cleanly would require adding an extra syllable; I think "wun-hun-dreh-dn-ten" probably flows better than "Wun-hun-dreh-de-ten". My guess would be that the "and" is a back formation from the pronunciation.


30 posted on 07/16/2006 12:12:13 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: proudofthesouth

Que? No habla ingles. En espanol por favor. Gracias!


31 posted on 07/16/2006 12:35:29 PM PDT by nhoward14
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Continuing on that thought...

The mouth formation is the same for syllables ending with "nd", "nt", or with "d" or "t" without a preceding consonant. Breath timing distinguishes the different forms; the "d" and "t" forms are also often distinguished by the start of the next syllable, especially if it is stressed.

Consider the words "Ben", "beddin'", and "bettin'". Although one might sometimes briefly remove the tongue from the teeth for the "d" and "t" at the start of the second syllable of the latter two words, they may also be spoken distinguishably without doing so, using the exact same mouth formations as "Ben". This is also the same mouth formation as would be used for "bed" or "bet", though in the latter cases the toungue would come off the teeth for the "d" or "t".

The shift from "ed" to "eh-n" one is thus a logical evolution of speech practice.

32 posted on 07/16/2006 12:49:15 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: sully777
OH!! If you're gonna find/correct your mistakes, how do you expect the rest of us to chastise you??? Next time just leave it. ;op
33 posted on 07/16/2006 1:07:15 PM PDT by Millee (Tagline misplaced)
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To: wizr
I remember, waaay back in the 20th century, the ooold timers spoke of "back in ought six" for 1906. Thought that was a wonderful way to refer to the preteen years.

I think it's spelled "aught". And I use the term frequently, as in "I don't have any money in the summer of aught-six."
34 posted on 07/16/2006 2:11:53 PM PDT by Cyclopean Squid (Being That Guy so you don't have to.)
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To: Millee
Come on, I was expecting something. Please don't disappoint


35 posted on 07/16/2006 3:00:16 PM PDT by sully777 (You have flies in your eyes--Catch-22)
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To: Cyclopean Squid

Thanks. I used the spell check, I thought, but guess it didn't work.


36 posted on 07/16/2006 4:30:34 PM PDT by wizr (Red blooded Americans wear Red on Fridays. Christians show Jesus' blood was spilled, too!)
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