Rare Lincoln Letter Found in Allentown

AP ^ | July 19, 2006 | AP

[stand watie]

SORRY, "mac" your SILLY bilge won't convince anyone who knows the TRUE HISTORY of the KKK (or those who have even seen the documentary that the History Channel has run on cable NUMEROUS times.).

the klan in the 20th Century was ALWAYS stronger in the north than in the south.

southerners are NOT prejudiced, as a rule, against Roman Catholics,AmerIndians, Asians or Jews.

those persons were 4 of the 5 PRIME TARGETS of the "robed fools" until the mid-'50s, when they "hitched their wagon" to "segregation now, segregation forever".

the FACTS are that the KKK is NOW much stronger in the NORTH than it is in the south. NYC alone has more KKK members than AL, GA,LA & MS COMBINED. the CITY of BOSTON has more members in 2006 than the entire STATE of MS.

do yourself a favor. peddle your BILGE elsewhere than on FR & you will NOT become an "Object of Common Ridicule" as "m.eSPINola" & "usmcobra" ARE.

free dixie,sw free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

well the author is CORRECT about ONE of them. 1 of 4 isn't bad, i'd guess.

RWR was the ONLY one of the four who was a DECENT & GOD-fearing man AND a CONSERVATIVE as well.

PITY that you are BLINDED by your anti-southern PREJUDICE.

free dixie,sw

[Colonel Kangaroo]

And you think even if those vicious tales about Lincoln are true that it's any worse than Davis being the president of a defeated, discredited degenerate slave regime?

Davis was not only a failure, he ran an repressive regime. Too bad historians haven't spent half the time examining the oppressions of the Davis gang as they have examining Lincoln's actions. But then again, most people aren't interested in losers and who can expect much from the leader of a regime based on slavery and dedicated to defeating the proposition that all men are created equal.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

I'm not Mr. Zak, but I've read his book. It's good to read about foundations. Reading about Lincoln, Stevens and Sumner makes one proud to be a Republican. I guess it's similar to how reading about Bull Conner, lynchings and the KKK must make one even more proud of the CSA.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

If Stevens' policies had been followed during Reconstruction, the South would have been a lot better off. If Stevens was really anti-Southern he would have called for the wholesale executions that often mark the failure of rebellions. The nobility of the American Union cause was shown in its magnanimity, a quality not often seen after civil wars.

[4CJ]

And you think even if those vicious tales about Lincoln are true that it's any worse than Davis being the president of a defeated, discredited degenerate slave regime?

If the men who knew Lincoln best - his law partner, close friends and confidants - portray the Lincoln as less than the fourth member of the Trinity, have issue with them.

Davis was not only a failure, he ran an repressive regime.

Non, is that you? Or Mr. Zak? Davis was a decorated hero/soldier/veteran of the Mexican war, senator/Secretary of War. When his state seceded, he resigned his seat in the Senate with remorse. He stated that the seceding states simply wanted to be left alone. On the other hand, the Lincoln arrested judges, priests, civilians and little girls for having the temerity to speak out against his dictatorship/Orwellian liberal policies, or for refusing to pray for him (documented in the OR), or for simply playing a Southern song on a piano. If that's your definition of a hero, by all means have at it.

Again, the US had legalized slavery far longer, the US flag flew over the ships that sailed to Africa to purchase their human cargoes. Yankees made fortunes in the Triangle trade (booze, sugar, flesh) - why not denigration of their 'regime'? Hypocrit?

In regard to 'all men are created equal', the framers meant POLITICAL equality - that the power of government was for everyone - not just for those of 'royal blood'. If they had meant racial equality then the very 1st Congress would not have made citizenship/naturalization/military service to be for whites only. Just as if Lincoln meant equality he would not have been so adamant about deportation/colonization of blacks. He even wanted to 'reward' those that fought for the union with an all expense paid trip to Panama to dig coal/canal - with no return ticket.

Lincoln was perfectly happy for the seceded states to return to the union with their slavery intact, Congress admitted West Virginia as a slave state during the war. In his inaugural speech he stated that as long as tariff revenues were paid, no invasion would occur. - ?) Even after the Declaration,

[stand watie]

yeah, right!

tell me how you feel about the WHOLESALE rape/arsons/assaults/robberies & slaughter of TENS of THOUSANDS of INNOCENT, UNarmed civilians (mostly women & children) & helpless CSA prisoners of war.

at least 15,000 POWs were MURDERED at just one DAMNyankee DEATH camp, Point Lookout POWC.

free dixie,sw

[mac_truck]

Those sorts of folks might influence weak minded people.

Yup. A lot of weak minded Southerners. They're not waving the Confederate flag for anyone else now are they?

Reduced to calling things racist are you?

What exactly is your problem with the correct usage of that term? Are you suggesting that somehow the political agendas of Wallace and Duke were NOT racist?

I seem to remember race riots in the North...

Really? Were they inspired by politicans seeking elected office? Were those same politicans swept into office as a result?

...and fierce opposition to busing. I guess bigots live everywhere.

So opposition to forced busing = bigotry, what color is the sky in your world bubba?

The citizens of Texas voted in 1954..

Nope. Only the white citizens of Texas voted in 1954, the colored citizens had no say in the matter. Ain't that right?

I forgot you were working to undermine the party by trying, however unsuccessfully, to stigmatize a big group of the Republican base.

GWB and his state attorney general removed those plaques in 1999 or 2000. What was the state Republican party's response to his actions? Did this so-called large group of stigmatized voters exact some revenge on this underhanded action? Nope, they nominated him for president, then they voted him into office...twice.

So how much influence does this "big group" of the Republican base actually have? [hint: Geoge has the answer for ya]

Name deleted so mac won't come to my house

Sheet, that's mighty white of you...

Same thing as the blacks who were bused to school in Boston, I imagine.

Listen, it wasn't about black kids getting bused up north, it was about the white kids. The opposition to forced busing wasn't opposition to integration, it was about forcing kids to go to school in dangerous environment far from home. Maybe in that respect the black kids down south and the white kids up north were in the same boat, huh?

[mac_truck]

I will ask if you are Republican or perhaps just a Rino?

I'm not the one accusing the former governor and his attoney general of anything illegal am I?

You may have a delagate's badge, but you're an anti-Republican in my book.

[mac_truck]

NYC alone has more KKK members than AL, GA,LA & MS COMBINED. the CITY of BOSTON has more members in 2006 than the entire STATE of MS.

That's some pretty funny stuff. Do you get high before you log on?

[Colonel Kangaroo]

In regard to 'all men are created equal', the framers meant POLITICAL equality - that the power of government was for everyone - not just for those of 'royal blood'. If they had meant racial equality then the very 1st Congress would not have made citizenship/naturalization/military service to be for whites only. Just as if Lincoln meant equality he would not have been so adamant about deportation/colonization of blacks. He even wanted to 'reward' those that fought for the union with an all expense paid trip to Panama to dig coal/canal - with no return ticket.

I think Lincoln had the right idea about the Declaration

"...I think the authors of that notable instrument intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects. They did not mean to say all were equal in color, size, intellect, moral developments, or social capacity. They defined with tolerable distinctness, in what respects they did consider all men created equal—equal in "certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." This they said, and this meant. They did not mean to assert the obvious untruth, that all were then actually enjoying that equality, nor yet, that they were about to confer it immediately upon them. In fact they had no power to confer such a boon. They meant simply to declare the right, so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast as circumstances should permit. They meant to set up a standard maxim for free society, which should be familiar to all, and revered by all; constantly looked to, constantly labored for, and even though never perfectly attained, constantly approximated, and thereby constantly spreading and deepening its influence, and augmenting the happiness and value of life to all people of all colors everywhere."

[Colonel Kangaroo]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Davis was a loser as a human being. For a slaveowner he was enlightened. He was a good family man and was generally well-respected by those who knew him. Unlike many reb fans, most Lincoln fans don't see the need to trash the other side's heroes with vile rumors. Maybe that's just because our side won.

But politically, Davis WAS a loser. He took the presidency of a backward, brutal and prosperous regime and when he left, it was a backward, brutal and destroyed regime.

On the other hand, the Lincoln arrested judges, priests, civilians and little girls for having the temerity to speak out against his dictatorship/Orwellian liberal policies, or for refusing to pray for him (documented in the OR), or for simply playing a Southern song on a piano. If that's your definition of a hero, by all means have at it.

You need to look at the reign of terror in East Tennessee your boy Davis presided over. It was so oppressive that many former Confederates welcomed the Union army as liberators. Ol Jeff issued such liberty affirming documents such as the alien proclamation of 1862 forcing Union loyalists to swear allegiance to the rebels or be run of their own property and out of the land. The rebs tried to confiscate the guns of the Unionist majority. Reb authorities could throw anybody they wished into the dungeons of Tuscaloosa without due process. The rebs talked a good game about liberty but it only applied to a narrow segment of the population.

Lincoln was perfectly happy for the seceded states to return to the union with their slavery intact, Congress admitted West Virginia as a slave state during the war. In his inaugural speech he stated that as long as tariff revenues were paid, no invasion would occur. - ?) Even after the Declaration

Again Lincoln himself provides the best answer:

"Now, I confess myself as belonging to that class in the country who contemplate slavery as a moral, social, and political evil, having due regard for its actual existence amongst us and the difficulties of getting rid of it in any satisfactory way, and to all the constitutional obligations which have been thrown about it; but, nevertheless, desire a policy that looks to the prevention of it as a wrong, and looks hopefully to the time when as a wrong it may come to an end."

But Lincoln wasn't a tyrant and could not force them to go where they were not yet ready to go.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

tell me how you feel about the WHOLESALE rape/arsons/assaults/robberies & slaughter of TENS of THOUSANDS of INNOCENT, UNarmed civilians (mostly women & children) & helpless CSA prisoners of war.

at least 15,000 POWs were MURDERED at just one DAMNyankee DEATH camp, Point Lookout POWC.

I don't know about the numbers but I feel for all who was killed. There are lawless renegades everywhere. But I wouldn't attribute the murders to Union army policy just as I wouldn't attribute all the murders of Unionist citizens to Confederate army policy. Both sides had their thugs on the margin. And a thug is a thug whether he wears blue or gray.

Both sides did a horrible job with their POW camps.

[stand watie]

SILLINESS, such as your post # 610, makes both the "DAMNyankee coven of lunatics, weirdos, fools & a BIGOT" and YOU look like IDIOTS.

don't you have any sense of SHAME???

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

lol AT you!

PLEASE rant on. you too serve the risen southland by posting FOOLISHNESS.

free dixie,sw

[stand watie]

actually, it is generally conceded by most scholars that the south did as well as they could in treating/housing/feeding/clothing POWs, given their VERY limited resources.

the north, on the other hand, had a PREMEDITATED & INTENTIONAL POLICY of ABUSING, denying clothing/housing/proper food/medical care to & MURDERING Confederate POWs.

the DIFFERENCE was INTENT!

free dixie,sw

[4CJ]

Lincoln: 'I think the authors of that notable instrument intended to include all men, but they did not intend to declare all men equal in all respects ...

What's that old saying, 'The road to h*** is paved with good ...'?

Lincoln again: 'They did not mean to assert the obvious untruth [LIE!], that all were then actually enjoying that equality, nor yet, that they were about to confer it immediately upon them.'

Gee. Lincoln (in his political doublegooddoublespeak) admits that it was a LIE that all men were equal. And that the DoI was NOT conferring equality.

Lincoln again: In fact they had no power to confer such a boon.

Gee. Imagine that. Lincoln admits they had no power to do so. I wonder what later document granted that power of equality? The Constitution? Where?

Lincoln continues: 'They meant simply to declare the right, so that the enforcement of it might follow as fast as circumstances should permit.'

As soon as they codify it, THEN it can be enforced. No President can craft law, he can only enforce EXISTING laws passed by Congress.

The first Congress limited citizenship/naturalization/military service to whites only. Certainly if they had intended for 'equality' they would have crafted laws that did extend equality under the law.

The DoI is an insturment of secession, a document in which Americans threw off the despotic rule of King George, and assumed the powers of government themselves - no royal bloodlines were necessary nor desired.

Jefferson wrote that the Declaration was to 'dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them'. That's the equality ascribed to the phrase 'all men are created equal'.

[4CJ]

Both sides did a horrible job with their POW camps.

Bump. Although if Lincoln had simply acceded to prisoner exchanges (as had been the norm), then there would not have been a single POW camp necessary by either side.

[stand watie]

VERY TRUE!

but if "lincoln, the TYRANT" had done so, the DAMNyankees would have NOT had the chance to PERMANENTLY stain their reputation for honor/common decency AND they wouldn't have had to LIE for a century & a half about what they did in their DEATH CAMPS!

just think of all the books of KNOWING, SELF-righteous LIES that would NOT have been published & all the authors/editors/printers/booksellers, who would have been "put out of work" writing/printing/selling those SELF-serving, sanctimonious LIES.(sarcasm button: ON)

free dixie,sw

[Heyworth]

you too serve the risen southland

I never get tired of ths one. It just keeps getting better and better.