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Comet's course hints at mystery planet [ from 2001 ]
Govert Schilling ^ | last updated February 5th, 2002 | Govert Schilling

Posted on 08/18/2006 2:36:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv

The giant comet, known as 2000 CR105, measures some 400 kilometers across... Brett Gladman of the Observatoire de la Côte d'Azur in Nice, France, and his colleagues have discovered... that 2000 CR105 orbits the sun in 3175 years and never comes closer than 6.6 billion kilometers--well beyond Neptune's orbit. The farthest point of the highly eccentric orbit lies 58.2 billion kilometers from the sun--13 times as far as Neptune... One possibility is that 2000 CR105's orbit evolved into its freakish shape gradually, due to small, periodic gravitational nudges from Neptune. Computer simulations imply that such a "diffusive chaos" scenario is unlikely, Levison says, but Gladman says it can't be ruled out... The most exciting possibility is that a planet-sized body still hides in the outer solar system. "A Mars-sized body [at an average distance of some 15 billion kilometers] could scatter a body like 2000 CR105 to its present orbit," Gladman and his colleagues write in their Icarus paper. Unlike Mars, the planet would consist mainly of ice. Because its high mass would protect it from orbital disruptions, the astronomers say, it could still be around... But Levison doesn't like the idea of an undiscovered Mars out there. "It's not clear how it would have formed," he says. "I would be surprised if anything much larger than Pluto would be found. But of course I could be wrong."

(Excerpt) Read more at govertschilling.nl ...


TOPICS: Astronomy; Science
KEYWORDS: astronomy; catastrophism; comets; xplanets

1 posted on 08/18/2006 2:37:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
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To: annie laurie; garbageseeker; Knitting A Conundrum

Big-orbit Object Confounds Dynamicists
Source: Sky & Telescope Magazine
Published: Thursday, April 5 2001 Author: J. Kelly Beatty
Posted on 04/07/2001 11:46:54 PDT by vannrox
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3acf609e1367.htm

Giant Kuiper Belt planetoid Sedna may have formed far beyond Pluto
Physics Org (http://www.physorg.com/) | January 24, 2005 | Southwest Research Institute
Posted on 10/22/2005 4:05:39 PM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1507383/posts


2 posted on 08/18/2006 2:38:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: annie laurie; garbageseeker; Knitting A Conundrum; 75thOVI; AndrewC; Avoiding_Sulla; BenLurkin; ...

Hey, this is kinda cool:

http://www.seb.cc/spacializer/


3 posted on 08/26/2006 12:07:43 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Catastrophism

4 posted on 08/26/2006 12:08:23 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

To get an idea how big this "supercomet" is the base ejecta outside the Cordillera Mountains from the Orientale basin on the Moon extends to about 500 kilometers.


5 posted on 08/26/2006 4:57:31 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: SunkenCiv

If my conversion from kilometers to miles is correct this "supercomet" is about 248 miles across.


6 posted on 08/26/2006 5:07:08 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: SunkenCiv
A Mars-sized body consisting mainly of ice, would be a very convenient "filling station" to some brave and hardy explorers.

In addition to its utility for replenishing volatiles, one assumes the tritium ratio of the planet would be favorable for mining an essential ingredient for fusion energy.
7 posted on 08/26/2006 5:25:13 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (That is the trouble with essences. They are essentially troublesome.)
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To: SunkenCiv
What is it? I'm not downloading any executables without knowing what they are first.

Thanks,

L

8 posted on 08/26/2006 5:27:01 PM PDT by Lurker (If you want peace, prepare for war.)
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To: Lurker

Oh well.


9 posted on 08/26/2006 5:30:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: NicknamedBob; SunkenCiv

Mars is 6,794 kilometers across. It boggles the mind that there is a hunk of ice that big out there.


10 posted on 08/26/2006 5:30:57 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: NicknamedBob

That would be great if controlled fusion enery were technically feasible.


11 posted on 08/26/2006 5:31:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: garbageseeker

That's a big boy.


12 posted on 08/26/2006 5:32:57 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Planet X
by David Jewitt
Last updated 2005 Aug
Planet X could exist provided it is... [f]ar enough away and/or small enough to exert no measurable gravitational deflections on the planets, comets or spacecraft in the outer solar system... [and f]ar enough away and/or small enough to have escaped detection by any of the all-sky surveys having sensitivity to moving objects that have been conducted to date.

What this means is that a planet of Earth's mass could exist undetected if it were more than a few 100 AU away, and even a Jupiter (300 Earth mass planet) could exist at distances only slightly greater. The sun could have a companion brown dwarf or even a star if far enough away! It's a nice thought but it will be very tough to do anything about it unless we are lucky. The Pan STARRS telescope now under development in Hawaii will provide the best constraints in the forseeable future. Will we get lucky? Stay tuned to find out... There is no convincing evidence for Planet X but "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Such an object could exist provided it is sufficiently far away.

13 posted on 08/26/2006 5:33:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

What even is scarier is that "supercomet" is about 250 miles across and the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago was only 4 miles across.


14 posted on 08/26/2006 5:37:17 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: garbageseeker

Hey, at least comets are easy to spot. Asteroids are only easy to spot as they enter the atmosphere and produce a tongue of flame on impact. ;')


15 posted on 08/26/2006 5:41:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
That is true. I am very happy that astronomers are able to spot these now. 20 years ago, they had a tough time spotting these objects in the vicinity of that giant.
16 posted on 08/26/2006 5:43:27 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: SunkenCiv

They are also getting better at spotting asteroids. 50 years ago they were still arguing as to what killed the dinosaurs.


17 posted on 08/26/2006 5:45:19 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: garbageseeker; SunkenCiv
"It boggles the mind that there is a hunk of ice that big out there.

In a manner of speaking, there could well be an even larger "hunk of ice" out there.

Diamond Star

18 posted on 08/26/2006 5:50:30 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (That is the trouble with essences. They are essentially troublesome.)
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The Plutinos
by David Jewitt
Feb 2004
A surprising result of the new observational work is that many of the distant objects are in or near the 3:2 mean motion resonance with Neptune. This means that they complete 2 orbits around the sun in the time it takes Neptune to complete 3 orbits. The same resonance is also occupied by Pluto... Probably, the 3:2 resonance acts to stabilize the Plutinos against gravitational perturbations by Neptune. Resonant objects in elliptical orbits can approach the orbit of Neptune without ever coming close to the planet itself, because their perihelia (smallest distance from the sun) preferentially avoid Neptune... Approximately 1/4 of the known trans-Neptunian objects are Plutinos. A few more are suspected residents of other resonances (e.g. 1995 DA2 is probably in the 4:3). By extrapolating from the limited area of the sky so far examined, we have estimated that the number of Plutinos larger than 100 km diameter is 1400, to within a factor of a few, corresponding to a few % of the total... [S]ome researchers are unsure whether Neptune moved out as opposed to in, and question the distance this planet might have moved. They also assert that the inclination of Pluto is larger than typical of the objects in Malhotra's simulations (and notice that the inclination of 1995 QZ9 is still larger than that of Pluto).

19 posted on 08/26/2006 6:05:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

If it hits, it will be Bush's fault.


20 posted on 08/26/2006 6:06:17 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (I LIKE you! When I am Ruler of Earth, yours will be a quick and painless death)
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To: NicknamedBob
It's the compressed heart of an old star that was once bright like our Sun but has since faded and shrunk.

It would be impossible to mine though.You would have to contend with the massive gravitational forces to begin with.
21 posted on 08/26/2006 6:37:10 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: NicknamedBob

A surface temperature of a white dwarf is 3900 K


22 posted on 08/26/2006 6:41:25 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: NicknamedBob
Which converts to 6500 degrees Fahrenheit. I will have to wait a 10 million years when it converts to a black dwarf.
23 posted on 08/26/2006 6:44:10 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: garbageseeker

I don't see the problem. The only reason to have a rock like that is to give it away.

You only want it to impress the girls, don't you?


24 posted on 08/26/2006 7:29:50 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (That is the trouble with essences. They are essentially troublesome.)
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To: NicknamedBob

I think that they will like a diamond about the size of planet Earth.


25 posted on 08/26/2006 8:34:43 PM PDT by garbageseeker (Wars may be fought by weapons, but they are won by men.- General George Patton)
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To: NicknamedBob

Going by the "two months salary" rule, we're talking about someone a lot richer than anyone ever born, or a planet with realllly long months.


26 posted on 08/27/2006 6:18:42 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

How long was a month on Pluto, when it was a planet?


27 posted on 08/27/2006 6:39:00 PM PDT by NicknamedBob (That is the trouble with essences. They are essentially troublesome.)
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To: NicknamedBob

Pluto's still a planet, the IAU can go [omitted].

I'm not sure that there's a sure answer to that question, due to the difficulty of observing the planet.


28 posted on 08/27/2006 7:27:24 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (updated my FR profile on Thursday, August 10, 2006. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

The information I had was that both bodies were tidally locked to each other. Each kept the other in its sky perpetually.

Depending on how you define a month, that could be a long one.


29 posted on 08/28/2006 5:12:25 AM PDT by NicknamedBob (That is the trouble with essences. They are essentially troublesome.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Now we know where the DUmmies came from *¿*


30 posted on 08/28/2006 5:36:25 AM PDT by TenthLegion (Have fun in life; you won't get out of it alive.)
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just some additional info:

2000 CR105 and Planet X
Science Frontiers #136, Jul-Aug 2001
William R. Corliss
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf136/sf136p04.htm

“History seems to be repeating itself with 2000 CR105. Astronomer B. Gladman proposes that 2000 CR105 was forced into its present eccentric orbit by an encounter with a Mars-size Planet X that now orbits the sun at a distance about 15 times that of Neptune. From the standpoint of celestial mechanics, this perturbation of 2000 CR105’s orbit is certainly within the realm of possibility.”

Evidence for an Extended Scattered Disk?
by B. Gladman, M. Holman, T. Grav, J. Kavelaars,
P. Nicholson, K. Aksnes, and J-M. Petit
http://www.oca.eu/gladman/cr105.html
http://www.obs-nice.fr/gladman/Extended.ps

“The numerical simulations seem to show that it is possible for perihelia to eventually reach distances as far away as 40 AU. However, CR105’s perihelion if 4.3 AU farther out than that (almost the distance from the Sun to Jupiter!) Therefore, the simulations do not seem to produce objects like this, and we believe that for the moment 2000 CR105 should NOT be classed as an SDO.”

A comet’s odd orbit hints at hidden planet
Ron Cowen
Science News
Week of April 7, 2001; Vol. 159, No. 14 , p. 213
http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010407/fob4.asp

“The astronomers concede that feeble and random pushes from Neptune could have slowly nudged 2000 CR105 into its current orbit. However, preliminary analysis suggests this scenario isn’t likely, note Gladman, Matthew Holman of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass., and their collaborators... According to one theory, Neptune and Uranus first formed between the orbits of Jupiter and Saturn and were then flung out to greater distances from the sun. If that kick propelled Neptune into the Kuiper belt before the planet settled into its current nearly circular orbit, its gravity could have caused the orbits of several objects like 2000 CR105 to stretch into elongated trajectories. Alternatively, the comet’s orbit could be the handiwork of an as-yet-unseen planet whose mass lies somewhere between that of Earth’s moon and Mars, the researchers say. It’s likely that such an object would have coalesced in the outer solar system from the same debris that formed Neptune, Uranus, and the cores of Jupiter and Saturn, Holman notes... If the proposed planet is as massive as Mars, it would have to lie some 200 AU from the sun — about 7 times Neptune’s distance — Holman calculates. Were it closer, observers would have spotted it.”

[Five] Scenarios for the Origin of the Orbits of the Trans-Neptunian Objects 2000 CR105 and 2003 VB12 (Sedna)2004 The Astronomical Journal 128 2564-2576   doi:10.1086/424617
Alessandro Morbidelli and Harold F. Levison
http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/1538-3881/128/5/2564
http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-3881/128/5/2564/204131.web.pdf


31 posted on 03/20/2008 11:16:23 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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2000 CR105
Google

32 posted on 03/20/2008 11:33:03 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/______________________Profile updated Saturday, March 1, 2008)
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X-Planets
· join · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post new topic · subscribe ·
Google news searches: exoplanet · exosolar · extrasolar ·

33 posted on 09/01/2012 3:35:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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