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Does enough evidence remain to ID Karr?
seatllepi.com ^ | 8.20.06 | DEBORAH HASTINGS

Posted on 08/20/2006 4:36:19 PM PDT by apackof2

BOULDER, Colo. -- The most important evidence amounts to this: DNA taken from two blood stains, hair and fibers taken from the body, half a footprint and two partial palm prints.

What it boils down to is this: It is infinitely easier to prove itinerant teacher John Mark Karr did not kill JonBenet Ramsey 10 years ago than it is to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that he garroted and beat the 6-year-old child he claims to have loved.

Because of the nature of DNA testing, it is simpler to prove a negative.

"DNA is the sure way to eliminate him," said Scott Robinson, a Denver defense attorney who has closely followed the case. "If it's negative, you ride that horse all the way to the stable."

(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: childmurder; crime; dna; evidence; jonbenet; jonbent; karr; pervert; ramsey
Its the DNA that counts or does it?

First move will be for Karr's ACLU lawyers, if there is any DNA match is to discredit any match as the samples being degraded

1 posted on 08/20/2006 4:36:20 PM PDT by apackof2
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To: apackof2

Is this melodrama still in the MSM news rotation?


2 posted on 08/20/2006 4:39:37 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: RightWhale
I wouldn't call the brutal murder of a child in her own home a "melodrama"
3 posted on 08/20/2006 4:41:27 PM PDT by apackof2 (They wait on you hand and foot so they can charge you an arm and a leg)
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To: apackof2

Way to miss the Karr melodrama.


4 posted on 08/20/2006 4:43:00 PM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: apackof2

The DNA samples from the original crime scene have been digitized. Whether they will be acceptable to a defense attorney is something else. I am not familiar with the process.


5 posted on 08/20/2006 4:43:21 PM PDT by OldFriend (I Pledge Allegiance to the Flag.....and My Heart to the Soldier Who Protects It.)
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To: apackof2

It's a melodrama insomuch that most people believe Karr is engaging in a publicity stunt.


6 posted on 08/20/2006 4:44:00 PM PDT by BigSkyFreeper (There is no alternative to the GOP except varying degrees of insanity.)
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To: apackof2

This guy didn't do it. He's an attention whore.


7 posted on 08/20/2006 4:44:49 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: apackof2

The major evidence of guilt is his confession. He has volunteered to take the rap. Who says his "ACLU lawyers" will argue anything? The DNA evidence could only mean that someone else was there. It will not necessarily exclude him. We already hear there was no "sex", no semen, etc. The big reason the cops thought it was an inside (family) job was no footprints in the snow. Very weird case. I kinda think he did it, after vascillating due to inaccurate media accounts (which will plague this and any case to no end).


8 posted on 08/20/2006 4:46:18 PM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: apackof2
This clown's a silly little pervert who has always dreamed of being a celebrated pervert.He's no more guilty of this girl's murder than he is of murdering the Lindburgh baby.
9 posted on 08/20/2006 4:49:47 PM PDT by Gay State Conservative ("History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid."- Dwight Eisenhower)
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To: shalom aleichem
The big reason the cops thought it was an inside (family) job was no footprints in the snow

There wasn't any snow around the house to leave a footprint

10 posted on 08/20/2006 4:49:58 PM PDT by apackof2 (They wait on you hand and foot so they can charge you an arm and a leg)
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To: Gay State Conservative
I am not so sure

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the evidence shows

11 posted on 08/20/2006 4:51:16 PM PDT by apackof2 (They wait on you hand and foot so they can charge you an arm and a leg)
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To: apackof2

That's just it: conflicting media reports. We sit many miles away picking up bits and pieces. There was a time when you could separate the wheat feom the chaff, but media now days is make up your own story before deadline. If you Google footprints in snow and JBR you'll find numerous references to snow and no snow.


12 posted on 08/20/2006 5:04:40 PM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: apackof2
the samples being degraded

the samples were collected 10 years ago and a DNA fingerprint obtained. It is this fingerprint that will be compared to a fingerprint from Karr's DNA.

OTOH, DNA keeps quite well at -72 degrees, and they probably have some of it, but it is the fingerprint that will be compared.

13 posted on 08/20/2006 5:07:09 PM PDT by Former Fetus (fetuses are 100% pro-life, they just don't vote yet!)
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To: shalom aleichem
The big reason the cops thought it was an inside (family) job was no footprints in the snow. Very weird case. I kinda think he did it, after vascillating due to inaccurate media accounts (which will plague this and any case to no end).Another apparent "fact" in dispute. Photographs taken the morning of the crime show NO SNOW at all. Lots of bad information circulating.
14 posted on 08/20/2006 5:24:23 PM PDT by Draco
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To: apackof2
When I have almost convinced myself that no sane prosecutor would go after someone like this without some pretty strong evidence, I think of Nifong’s Duke rape fiasco where there is apparently little more evidence that a certifiable nut's accusation. Here the certifiable nut is the defendant.
15 posted on 08/20/2006 5:33:40 PM PDT by JimSEA ( "The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock)
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To: JimSEA

Coincidence? I think not.

16 posted on 08/20/2006 5:41:46 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: JimSEA
Yep, I think we've been Nifonged again!
17 posted on 08/20/2006 5:43:02 PM PDT by Guenevere
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To: JimSEA

Maybe they are interested in some other unsolved cases he may have been involved in.His track record is a story unto itself.


18 posted on 08/20/2006 5:57:04 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: apackof2

If the DNA matches or is inconclusive, but the palm print also matches it doesn't matter one bit what the defense attorneys argue.

If the DNA is inconclusive and the print doesn't match then they've got lots of wiggle room.


19 posted on 08/20/2006 6:09:57 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: shalom aleichem
the DNA evidence ( or lack of) means shinola to the Duke lacrosse players....I don't see them escaping a trial even with NO evidence whatsoever....

and if that is the standard....then, by all means, try Karr and hang him too.....

OTOH.....I have to say that I am compelled to believe he did it, based solely on the Santa Bear photo if it truely does exist......

20 posted on 08/20/2006 6:13:52 PM PDT by cherry (.)
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To: xarmydog
At least he is removed from being around children. The Idea of his teaching secondgraders nauseates me.
21 posted on 08/20/2006 6:25:49 PM PDT by JimSEA ( "The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock)
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To: JimSEA

I AGREE.Some scary stuff.We have a S.I.L. that substitues and will be monitering our five year old grandaughter.It is somewhat of a comfort.


22 posted on 08/20/2006 6:40:14 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: BigSkyFreeper

>>>It's a melodrama insomuch that most people believe Karr is engaging in a publicity stunt.>>>

People keep saying he is an attention whore. He did not come forward, come out, not as himself anyway. He was arrested in Thailand, not knocking at the Bouder DA's door.


23 posted on 08/20/2006 6:40:45 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: RightWhale

It's August, always a slow news month, they gotta dredge up something, and they already did shark attacks.


24 posted on 08/20/2006 6:42:49 PM PDT by discostu (you must be joking son, where did you get those shoes)
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To: apackof2

>>>The big reason the cops thought it was an inside (family) job was no footprints in the snow

There wasn't any snow around the house to leave a footprint>>>

You are correct, but it will definitely mess up people's well thought out theories won't it? People have half bits of information (such as saying he wanted to get out of a Thailand prison that he was never in) or that the Ramsey's must have done it accidentally hitting her head and then covering it up, but not knowing enough to realize that she never bled from the head. There are alot of armchair experts out there who present their OPINION as fact and that is that. I just brush it off.


25 posted on 08/20/2006 6:43:51 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: Dog Gone
This guy didn't do it. He's an attention whore.

In modern language that would be 'being a Sheheen'

26 posted on 08/20/2006 6:47:49 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: JimSEA

>>>When I have almost convinced myself that no sane prosecutor would go after someone like this without some pretty strong evidence, I think of Nifong’s Duke rape fiasco where there is apparently little more evidence that a certifiable nut's accusation. Here the certifiable nut is the defendant.>>>

That's what's confusing me about this. I mean it takes all of a few hours to compare a palm print (I'm sure it's been digitized) and not much longer (few days) for DNA. Why not hold him in his cell and at least rule THAT part out before dragging him across the ocean under arrest for murder. Not to mention the ex-wife said noone even contacted her about him being there. Of course I'm sure they wouldn't want to take a chance on her notifying him they were looking for him. No matter how much her divorce looks like she disliked him. I disliked my ex through my divorce, but things have settled down over the years. However pedophelia is one it'd be hard to get over.

So I can only hope the DA has not completely made her and Boulder Co out to be fools yet again. I would also like to think that the IEA and FBI wouldn't let themselves become involved on a goose chase of a guy who claimed something over some emails to a stranger. I guess we'll see.


27 posted on 08/20/2006 6:50:06 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: Valpal1

>>>If the DNA is inconclusive and the print doesn't match then they've got lots of wiggle room. >>>

I have a legal question. If he pleads guilty, confessed, do they even need to 'prove' a case?


28 posted on 08/20/2006 6:52:15 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: sandbar

If they charge him and he pleads not guilty, then no, they don't have to prove a case.

But you don't charge someone unless you think you can prove the case, because you don't know if they will plead guilty.

On the other hand lots of people claim they have been coerced into pleady guilty to lesser charges because they were being "railroaded" on more serious charges.

Don't know how often that happens in real life, but doubt it could happen in such a high profile case.

If he is part of an international cartel of pedophile child porn traders I expect him to stop breathing soon after reaching the U.S.


29 posted on 08/20/2006 7:14:24 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1
international cartel of pedophile child porn traders I expect him to stop breathing

INTERESTING! Hadn't thought of that wonder if that's what happened to the guy they found dead that "shot himself"? Last name began with H. Can't remember the rest.

30 posted on 08/20/2006 8:44:23 PM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: hoosiermama

There is all kinds of trafficking in women and children.

If Karr assumes room tempature, it's going to be real hard to not put on my tin foil hat.


31 posted on 08/20/2006 9:13:34 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: sandbar
"I have a legal question. If he pleads guilty, confessed, do they even need to 'prove' a case?"

I believe I have run into information in the past that in many jurisdictions some additional corroboration is necessary. I don't know for Colorado, specifically.

32 posted on 08/22/2006 9:29:30 AM PDT by Irene Adler
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To: sandbar

Yes, they must prove the case, but it will be much easier to prove with a confession.


33 posted on 08/22/2006 11:05:33 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: apackof2
He didn't do it. He's obsessed with the precocious little girl and knows a lot about the case. He just wants to be the envy of pedophiles. She was a pedophiles dream come true.

Whether the DNA is "degraded" or not they have the record of it so compare what was found at the scene.
34 posted on 08/24/2006 9:38:31 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God) .)
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