JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Karr - Case Thread 2

FRee Republic ^ | 8/28/06 | FReepers, et alii

[Rte66]

This is a reference thread with links to previous FR threads discussing the arrest of a suspect, John Mark Karr, in the decade-old cold case concerning the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, plus case resources for continued commentary on investigation of the crime.

[Rte66]

I haven't finished reading the arrest warrant - I'm still where I stopped last night and I'm not going to download the emails file or phone calls file. Some of it has been on TV (those parts that can be) and some is posted by others on forums - I'll eventually piece it together.

"And hence," I'm not sure what all is in them. I won't hold my breath on the FBI on this one, either. I feel they would be more interested in whether he was part of a network of predators - which, of course, he may be - though I sort of doubt it.

The way he kept looking over his should at the Internet cafe, not wanting anyone to see what was on his monitor screen, tells me that he is still ashamed of these things that he brags about so openly in private in the few emails I've read from the warrant.

He complains about "everyone else" not understanding him and then tries to make arguments for the NA ... well, I don't want to write that word on here - you know the organization I mean. It also has an m and a b and an l and an a after that. Weirdos would get that keyword on google hits and we'd be inundated with JMK's if I wrote it out.

So, I think it would take something like the other rings that the FBI has broken up to get their attention. If we're lucky, maybe he has associated with some of them online, like that one who used to post on another JBR forum from SAmer.

And we won't hear about any of that until it's all over and there are arrests.

I'd really like to know if those people in Europe that he nannied for (if they really exist) have been located and interviewed by LE. That's imperative. If not by Boulder, perhaps by Sonoma. I'd also like to know about 2004 and why he didn't email that whole year. Doing instead of fantasizing?

Truthfully, I really don't care about anything JMK-related at present.

[Rte66]

Well, not knowing where she actually died is just a matter of a few yards difference - whether in his bedroom or in his motor home, parked outside.

I can deduce that her live handprint on the headboard of the motorhome bed means she was alive in there, but I've always felt that's where she died because of the blood stains.

[stlnative]

SONOMA JUDGE WON'T UNSEAL KARR ARREST DOCUMENTS
08/29/06 5:15 PDT

~SNIP~

It was disclosed during the court hearing that the Sheriff's Department has re-opened its investigation of Karr on the pornography charges. Giordano would not comment on the scope of the re-opened investigation.

Chief Deputy District Attorney Joan Risse said new technology has allowed a more thorough examination of Karr's computer on which the pornography was allegedly found five years ago.

~SNIP~ (more at link)

[stlnative]

Karr headed to California
August 29, 2006

~SNIP~

Temin also sought a court order to return property taken from Karr following his arrest in Thailand.

Assistant district attorney Pete McGuire told Bailin that his office does not want to return a computer seized from Karr. McGuire noted that one of the conditions a California judge imposed on Karr was that he have no access to the Internet.

Bailin ordered that everything except the computer be returned to Karr through his attorney. She also instructed prosecutors (the computer) could not be examined unless they obtained a warrant to do so.

~SNIP~ (more at link)

[sandbar]

>>>Danielle Van Damm, another child abduction murder victim taken from her bed where no evidence of an intruder was found in the home. Neighbor David Westerfield was convicted of the crime.>>>

This scares the crap out of me. I have a baby monitor in my daughter's room (they share a bedroom) with those little alarm things on all the windows. There are freaks everywhere. Just this morning, my (I was very proud) observant daughter noticed a man parked in a truck up the street from the bus stop. After quizzing him, he was waiting on friend to come. I plan on calling the police if he waits for a 'friend' again (I have never seen this person on my street before).

So am I paranoid? Maybe. But it pays to be sometimes.

[Valpal1]

But that's not paranoid, that is being alert to your environment and taking responsibility for your turf.

When everyone keeps their head down and minds their own business, that's when criminals run amok, not just the molesters either.

Abduction murder is truly a very, very rare event that is just publicized more due to electronic media.

[Valpal1]

Corrected Link: http://www.atg.wa.gov/hits/childmur.shtml

2006 Child Abduction Murder Study

In late 1993, the Criminal Division of the Washington State Attorney General's Office undertook a 3-1/2 year research project, partially funded by the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, to study the investigation of child abduction murder cases.

In this first research project, published in 1997, researchers reviewed more than 600 child abduction murder cases across the United States, then interviewed the investigating detectives. This data provided law enforcement valuable insight into what investigative techniques tend to be most productive.

Now the Attorney General’s Office has released a follow-up study, including 175 additional solved cases. The additional cases generally reflect and support the findings in the original report with several significant and definite differences:

[stlnative]

Karr Seemed 'Just Like the Old John' During Jail Visit
August 30

excerpt...

Aug. 30 - The father and half brother of John Mark Karr, the man who confessed to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey and was then cleared by DNA evidence, says he appeared "stable" when they visited him in a Colorado jail Tuesday.

"He was just like the old John," said half brother Nate Karr in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "We had some touching moments, some laughs," he said.

-------------



Author of book on JonBenet doubts case will be solved
August 30

excerpt...

ST. LOUIS - The author of a book on JonBenet Ramsey's murder says that absent a bona fide confession, he doubts the case will ever be solved.

"The evidence is 10 years old now. If it was going to lead them to a suspect, it would have already," said Charles Bosworth Jr., a St. Louis-area man who co-wrote a book published in 1998 called "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?"

Bosworth is a former longtime crime reporter at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch who lives in Glen Carbon, Ill. He and co-author, Dr. Cyril Wecht, a pathologist and former county coroner in Pittsburgh, had concluded that family or someone close to it killed the 6-year-old beauty queen.

[sandbar]

After reading (I could only stomach a handful of pages) of the emails to Michael Tracey I have to say:

First, how could he (Michael Tracey) continue and even have conversations like this with this demented twisted sick man. Even for 'investigative' purposes. Four YEARS of this garbage??? You can't convince me he isn't a sicko himself.

Second, relative or not, John Karr needs to be locked away FOREVER. Why do they not have nuthouses anymore??? We have to give up our civil rights to fight 'terrorism', but yet we have to honor civil rights of demented pyscho's at the expense of our children. We must pay for Katrina "victims" to buy drugs, strippers and video game systems, but we can't pay to house people that would harm our children???

I am sickened and as another relative has said (not the looney tunes two that have been in the news spotlight from day one) he is dead to me. Might as well have stayed in Thailand.

[ableLight]

Thanks! Very interesting. You do realize, of course, that that was only in the state of Washington?

[Valpal1]

Um, no it wasn't. That study happens to be the difinitive study to date on the subject. It was done by the Washingtion AG's office, partly funded by the U.S. Department of Justice and is national in scope.

If you read the intro, you'd know that.

[stlnative]

I have skimmed through most of the 420 pages from Karr/Tracey email. The FBI is all over this in my opinion - Tracey was communicating with the FBI and the FBI was definitely involved during the last 2 months and most likely earlier than that. Karr's computer has not been searched yet and CO is holding on to it. They have to seek a warrant to access the files on his computer. Karr is in deep doo doo if they find any thing on the computer or if someone from overseas steps forward with information that a child was molested by him in the last 2 or 3 years. It is a federal offense in US now for anyone to travel to another country and molest a child - The federal prison sentence for this 15 years to 30 years for each count. All this follows under the 2003 PROTECT Act.

Tracey had a hard time stomaching all of this, you have to read the 420 page file to catch on to this. Karr would get extremely angry at Tracey many many times for Tracey not responding to his emails that way he expected Tracey should respond.

If no one has got into the 420 page file, I strongly recommend that you look at least at the pages around June 24th and to the day he was picked up in Thailand.

Some people may say well he made up the JonBenet stuff how do we know he was telling the truth about the others girls? Well I'd say Karr was very honest about a lot things he was telling Tracey. If you read from June 24th 06 and on Karr talks in great detail about how he decorated his classroom, he even sent Tracey photos by email. Once US LE got there they saw that Karr was not lying about it and he was not lying about the little 5 year old that Karr was after right before Thai police picked him up. Again you have to read the emails to understand what went down.

Again do not think that Tracey is a sicko until you have went through the emails, you will see clearly that Tracey was having a hard time dealing with all of it, but he kept going because he wanted to get Karr off the streets.

Another thing Karr is not insane, he is flat out a pedophile! He should never see the outside world again.

[Valpal1]

On page 26 of the full report (PDF format) it states:

According to Hanfland et al (1997), the rarity of these types of cases has allowed a body of "commonly held beliefs" to develop that has little to no basis in fact. Hence detectives, case managers, police executives and the media sometimes operate with false assumptions and misperceptions. Homicide investigators, through no fault of their own, sometimes fail to realize that the investigations of the murders of abducted children are very different the other murders they investigate. Consequently, they sometimes make decisions about the direction of the investigation that are not "high percentage" choices. For example, some detectives believe that in any murder of a child the logical suspect is a parent and, therefore, they devote a considerable amount of resources to prove that belief. But this research shows that the parents are the least likely suspects in an abduction murder of a child. This kind of false assumption is made, in part, from lack of experience with these types of cases and because there is very little empirical research on these types of child murders and their investigations from which detectives can draw guidance. This research will help investigators make those decisions identify the strategies, and implement the tactics that will lead to the more certain and timely capture of the killers of abducted children.

[Rte66]

This will probably be the last FR thread roundup on the topic of John Mark Karr, but if more Ramsey murder case info comes up, I'll save the list. Been nice chattin' with y'all!

---

ADDENDUM #9
Tue., 8/29/06 thru Wed, 8/30/06

---

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1692455/posts
Grotesque Ignorance Exposed (The Media & John Mark Karr)
American Spectator ^ | 8/30/2006 | William Tucker

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1692442/posts
JonBenet
Wall Street Journal Opinion Journal ^ | August 30, 2006 | DOROTHY RABINOWITZ

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1692052/posts
Sonoma County D.A. wants Karr to face child porn charges from '01
The Press Democrat ^ | 8-29-06

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1692000/posts
Prosecutor Defends Karr Arrest
The Washington Times ^ | August 29, 2006 | unk

[stultorum]

Source

"Neighbors said the Ramseys entertained often - they had three separate Christmas parties in December. People were often seen coming and going from their house.

"Many people may have had keys to the house, including caterers, a house cleaner, gardeners and landscapers, said Joe Barnhill, who lives across the street and takes care of JonBenet's dog, Jacque.

If others had keys to the house, it is possible that someone may have stolen the keys from one of these people or keys may have been given to a stranger.

It remind me of the Elizabeth Smart case. The perp who kidnapped ES had been inside the Smarts' residence, but was the only one -- among those who had done work at the Smarts'-- who had not been questioned by LE.

A big thank you for the pings.

[Rte66]

That was at the very start of the case. There were either 6 or 8 keys out and Patsy knew who they all were. I don't know when the cops got that info out of her, but all were checked out, intensely - for years!

One of those "3" parties was not theirs and they were out of town. I have no idea what the 3rd one might have been. They said they didn't have any that year - but the gingerbread party did count. It just wasn't a big production like the R's normally liked to do.

A great deal of the info that came out at first was later found to be wrong - you kind of have to follow along after that to see what the cops found and what others said in either media interviews or LE questionings (some has been released, not all) or the many books that have been written with more info gleaned by the authors.

You're welcome - y'all can keep posting about the case here, I'm just sick to death of the Karr stuff. Happy sleuthing.

Oh, PS - do you want to go back and hit the "abuse" button on your potato pix post #96, so the mod can delete it? The "no picture" notices are huge and look kind of raggedy there. No problem if you don't want to. See ya!

[Rte66]

I'm sorry! I was thinking I was writing to stlnative! My huge apologies. Please disregard, lol!

[Rte66]

Hi - I just screwed up - thought I was writing a post to you, but it was stultorum - I was just seeing "stl" in my peripheral vision.

Here is what was supposed to be to you:

"... Oh, PS - do you want to go back and hit the "abuse" button on your potato pix post #96, so the mod can delete it? The "no picture" notices are huge and look kind of raggedy there. No problem if you don't want to. See ya! ..."

There! I need some ice cream, I think!

[MizSterious]

Thanks for all your hard work tracking down the news items on this story. Whether Karr killed JB or not, I hope he's locked up for a long while--he's a danger to children.

[sandbar]

>>>Another thing Karr is not insane, he is flat out a pedophile! He should never see the outside world again.>>>

*sigh* I must agree.