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JonBenet Ramsey Murder Suspect Karr - Case Thread 2
FRee Republic ^ | 8/28/06 | FReepers, et alii

Posted on 08/28/2006 9:01:50 AM PDT by Rte66

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To: Sacajaweau

I agree, but I would add that if JMK is delusional or otherwise mentally ill, I won't second-guess his inaccuracies b/c it could be the result of that. OTOH, you're right; common sense says it doesn't fit. Without major physical evidence contradicting his OWN statements, he can't be the man.


51 posted on 08/28/2006 10:29:50 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: colorado tanker
Yeah I heard SIlverman, But since I'd already sent the idea to several TV personalities, I wondered which one shared the idea with him. OTOH he could be on this thread? Or he could have read my mind or gotten it telepathically! %^)
52 posted on 08/28/2006 10:32:05 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: Rte66

Once again, thanks for all your effort with these threads.


53 posted on 08/28/2006 10:34:04 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: ableLight

Correction; sorry,

I'm not certain they've got their guy but I agree that your points do make sense.


54 posted on 08/28/2006 10:35:45 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: hoosiermama
Well, Silverman plays the liberal role in the Caplis/Silverman show, so you'd never get him to admit it if he lurks here!
55 posted on 08/28/2006 10:36:42 AM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Rte66


WOW --- thanks. Just checking in.
Court appearance for Karr today, right?


56 posted on 08/28/2006 10:37:47 AM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- "if" 10% are fundamentalists, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: Kylie_04

You've got it backwards. There were a very few of us brave souls who DIDN'T think it was the Ramseys and we were constantly posted to with absolute iron-clad insistence that the Ramsey as perp point of view was the only one worth a flip. If you don't know that, you haven't read the thread.
Please don't accuse us outnumbered and outgunned ones of making you some kind of victim.


57 posted on 08/28/2006 10:39:27 AM PDT by txrangerette ("We are fighting al-Qaeda, NOT Aunt Sadie"...Dick Cheney commenting on the wiretaps!!a)
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To: txrangerette

And it *was* brave. That's a genuine compliment.


58 posted on 08/28/2006 10:45:07 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: txrangerette
WHOA. I don't think I claimed to be any sort of victim. I believe I used the word enemy. Perhaps adversary would have been a better choice, but neither implies victimhood in my mind.

I have read the entire thread. I do not believe that *I* have insisted that the Ramseys were guilty to anyone.

59 posted on 08/28/2006 10:46:39 AM PDT by Kylie_04 (not consuming liquids while posting since 2006)
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To: All

I said this on the previous thread:

IMO, but what's the point of endlessly discussing the parents when it is JMK that is the current focus? I am interested in following the current investigation, not the historical witch hunt on the parents, that culminated in nothing a grand jury would even act on.

The parents as perps angle was exhausted years ago. Currently there is a new suspect and I am not in the least interested in rehashing what has been rehashed a million times before to no purpose.

I'm interested in what information is known about the current suspect and what publicly known evidence fits with this arrest.


60 posted on 08/28/2006 10:47:53 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: All
Just because some of us do not find any convincing evidence of the Ramsey's guilt doesn't mean we are ready to fry Karr. If the DA doesn't have any convincing evidence, then he's likely not the guy either. So, for those of you displaying skepticism of Karr's guilt, most of us are with you. What we aren't with some of you on is the constant inference of the Ramsey's guilt. Many of us do not see anything substantial pointing to their guilt either.
61 posted on 08/28/2006 10:51:16 AM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: Valpal1; All

DITTO!

No MORE rehash....Just discussion and possible theories on current issue!


62 posted on 08/28/2006 10:52:11 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: ableLight

1.) JMK alibi is undocumented
2.) JMK confessed to culpable knowledge of the crime
3.) JMK 'fits the profile'
4.) JMK's 1st ex-wife indicates letters signed SBTC
5.) "Shall Be The Conquerer" signature in HS annual
6.) Yes, crazies falsely confess, but real perps also involve themselves in investigations for thrills. It happens both ways. JMK tried to communicate with PR.
7.) the DA *must* have more on him

I think that the arrest affadavit will be unsealed when the DA does or does not charge him and then we will know what the *more* is.


63 posted on 08/28/2006 10:57:16 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1

Thanks

Okay, here's what we've got so far:

1.) JMK alibi is undocumented
2.) JMK confessed to culpable knowledge of the crime
3.) JMK 'fits the profile'
4.) JMK's 1st ex-wife indicates letters signed SBTC
5.) "Shall Be The Conquerer" signature in HS annual
6.) Yes, crazies falsely confess, but real perps also involve themselves in investigations for thrills. It happens both ways. JMK tried to communicate with PR.
7.) the DA *must* have more on him

Would anyone challenge that? Add more? I'm sincerely curious how well we can develop this theory and where it might lead us...


64 posted on 08/28/2006 11:00:15 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: hoosiermama; Valpal1; All
No more Re-Hash!

DITTO - DITTO - DITTO
The current focus is on KARR, not the Ramsey's!!!
65 posted on 08/28/2006 11:09:01 AM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: ableLight

This is one of my unsupported speculations.

The actual toxicology report is missing from the autopsy, there is just the two lines on the cover/summary page.

Has anybody ever seen a toxicolgy report on the pineapple in the bowl found in the kitchen?

Is it possible that JBR was drugged and that it was in the pineapple even if not in her blood stream?

I have been suspicious that the summary page was doctored and the actual toxicology report withheld from the media and the public.

The 1st ex wife reports a belief that JMK drugged her, is it possible that JMK also drugged 2nd ex wife and kids?


66 posted on 08/28/2006 11:09:02 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: Valpal1; Rte66

That's good. I don't know about the toxicology reports on the pineapple. The pineapple had only reached the duodenum so it seems reasonable to say it wasn't yet absorbed when she died. If he poisoned her and something happened 'too' soon, it might not have shown up in a body toxicology report anyway.


Ste66, you now anything about that? Anyone?


67 posted on 08/28/2006 11:13:31 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: ableLight

Duh, I meant

Rte66, you know anything about that? Anyone?


68 posted on 08/28/2006 11:14:33 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: Valpal1

Unless that can be refuted, I vote to add it as #8 since it could just as well point to an intruder (I might argue that it weighs against PR feeding the pineapple b/c why poison the child when she can just smack her with a flashlight).

The addition would be:

physical evidence that JBR was fed pineapple by an intruder


69 posted on 08/28/2006 11:26:25 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: txrangerette

I've never thought it was the Ramsey's, no matter how much the so called evidence points there. I just cannot imagine someone being insane (and it would take alot of insanity to do to your own child what happened to that little girl) enough to pull that off and be completely normal before and after. Don't buy it at all.


70 posted on 08/28/2006 11:33:52 AM PDT by sandbar
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To: Valpal1
After reading the report where the cattle prod could cause one to become unconscious, have been wondering in the wounds are connected somehow to an instrument NOT a drug that produced the unconscious....It could also have been used on the first wife , thereby producing the blood blisters she had in unmentionable places.
71 posted on 08/28/2006 11:35:49 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: stlnative

RE blood blisters
"This rupture is usually caused by some form of trauma, such as pinching."

The electric fence charger we have uses small "pinchers" to connect to the wire fence. But the wounds in the picture seem smaller than they are.

OTOH anyone with a pair of plyers and a wire cutter could reconnect smaller clamps. I imagine the result of a automobile battery charger (Mine can regulate the amount of charge) might cause someone to be unconscious. Dealing in automobile the battery charger would be a must for his business.


72 posted on 08/28/2006 11:43:14 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: Valpal1

Spitz said (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0608/24/ng.01.html)

"DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, when you look at an autopsy report and a toxicology report, you need to realize that toxicology doesn`t look for every single drug that`s out there. It looks for most common drugs. And the possibility of JonBenet being given a drug certainly exists and that that drug wasn`t part of the panel that was done in that toxicology report."


73 posted on 08/28/2006 11:43:55 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: hoosiermama
Wouldn't the victim remember the wielding of the cattle prod. How does one surreptitiously administer a cattle prod?
74 posted on 08/28/2006 11:44:39 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: ableLight

But what we really need to find out is if there was anything found in the pineapple. Was it even tested?


75 posted on 08/28/2006 11:44:52 AM PDT by ableLight
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To: onyx; Rte66

Would appreciate you comments on posts 71 & 72.


76 posted on 08/28/2006 11:45:51 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: ableLight

Spitz seems to be implying that we may not find any evidence of a drug in the pineapple or in JBR's system, so I'll hold off on adding that as #8 for now.


77 posted on 08/28/2006 11:48:52 AM PDT by ableLight
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FYI

a PRO "JONBENET'S PARENTS/BROTHER KILLED HER" DISCUSSION FORUM
(The perfect forum for the "her parents/brother killed her" theorists)

Websleuths - JonBenet Forum


78 posted on 08/28/2006 11:49:55 AM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: stlnative

yes, been there and don't like it. There is more evidence suggesting an intruder did it rather than the family and most of their theories over there are so far fetched. What is sad is if at some point it is proved that someone else did this than the family those people over there will still say trash about the Ramsey's.


79 posted on 08/28/2006 11:52:33 AM PDT by Halls (Proud to be called a Daughter of Texas!)
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To: Valpal1
A cattle prod is a stick with an electric charge on the end

Am leaning more toward a charger used to charge up batteries ala automobile. Mine is quite small and could easily have been put in carry on luggage back then.

If the victem is given enough charge to produce unconsciousness I doubt if they'd remember it. Remember the first wife (just) assumed she had been drugged as an explanation of why she was out for two days.

80 posted on 08/28/2006 11:53:16 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: hoosiermama

The reference I posted was due to Karr's first wife waking up with blood blisters on her private parts. Rte66 did not know what Karr's first wife meant by "blood blisters", so I thought I would help her out trying to explain it in general terms.


81 posted on 08/28/2006 11:56:12 AM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: stlnative

But the pictures of the red/brown marks on JB IMO could also be blood blisters.


82 posted on 08/28/2006 11:57:34 AM PDT by hoosiermama
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To: hoosiermama

I'm not buying that it would wipe out enough memory far enough back. She wouldn't remember him fooling with his apparatus? Risky, very risky.

Occam's Razor and all that. Slipping someone drugs in food or drink is simple and easy. They just remember going to sleep.

And we already have the presence of the unexplained pineapple in which an unknown and untested for drug could have been delivered.


83 posted on 08/28/2006 12:02:12 PM PDT by Valpal1 (Big Media is like Barney Fife with a gun.)
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To: sandbar

No, they said they didn't keep them, to one reporter, but when they made the initial statement in that interview on GMA, they said they "just discovered that" or something that would lead you to believe it was something they had just found.

Like another poster said, I hope they're not confusing it with SWAK!

[If I disappear after this, it's because I just heard a big crack of thunder and may have to turn off the puter. Drat, just when I was making some time to be here. Gotta go check radar and see if it's big.]


84 posted on 08/28/2006 12:07:31 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: hoosiermama; Rte66

yes one of the marks on her neck... the big on her neck looks to be caused from a second rope winding catching and pinching her neck after the the slipknot was put on her neck.

I did the potato test... but I chose not to post it here on the forum. To kill Jonbenet with a slipknot garrotte he would have had to wrap the cord one more time around her neck to strangle her to death. (there is no indication that he hung her up in the autopsy) To understand this you would have to do the slipknot rope test yourself on something. Possibly Rte66 can explain it better than I can if she feels up to it.

As far as the little round spots... I am not sure what caused them yet but yes a cattle prod could have been used, but I am sure they considered it.


85 posted on 08/28/2006 12:08:50 PM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: sandbar
One of the Ramseys did it and the other is readily complicit. Like.....

Hey, Patsy....Grab a pen and a pad, will ya. I'll let you write the note.

Sometimes you have to exaggerate the scene to see its' stupidity.

Kill my kid and it would make a LOT more sense that I'd go after you than help you.

86 posted on 08/28/2006 12:09:34 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: stlnative

Unless it's in her court report when she got the marriage annulled or whatever, I'm going to reserve decision on anything she says.


87 posted on 08/28/2006 12:16:05 PM PDT by Sacajaweau (God Bless Our Troops!!)
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To: hoosiermama
If Karr is prosecuted for killing her. I will go into detail on the forum of why I think the garrotte he used was a "poor" choice. To kill someone in the manner the perp did by using a slipknot style garrotte shows inexperience on the perp's part. It takes a lot physical effort to kill someone including a child this way. I feel the perp was having a hard time trying to kill her with the slipknot garrotte and that is why he hit her hard in the head with something to finish her off. There is another style of garrotte that would be easier to use and no physical effort would be needed.
88 posted on 08/28/2006 12:22:41 PM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: stlnative

correction...

and very little physical effort would be needed.


89 posted on 08/28/2006 12:26:34 PM PDT by stlnative (WARNING my post is most likely full of poor spelling & bad grammar which are all free of charge!)
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To: hoosiermama

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't have a Comment. I don;t know where this is leading... stun gun is now a cattle prod?


90 posted on 08/28/2006 12:29:42 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- "if" 10% are fundamentalists, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: Sacajaweau

>>>Kill my kid and it would make a LOT more sense that I'd go after you than help you.>>>

No kidding!!!


91 posted on 08/28/2006 12:30:04 PM PDT by sandbar
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To: ableLight

That was the 2nd time you've made me a Sainte, lol. I *wish.*

Meyer told a reporter very close to the case that is the full autopsy report, there is nothing left out.


92 posted on 08/28/2006 12:37:26 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: Rte66

John Mark Karr--DNA NOT A MATCH
WIOD--SCHNITT SHOW | today | SCHNITT


Posted on 08/28/2006 2:37:23 PM CDT by Fawn


Schnitt just announced the breaking news. The DNA for JM Karr is NOT a match for Jon Benet evidence.





TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: KARR; Click to Add Keyword



[ Report Abuse | Bookmark ]






1 posted on 08/28/2006 2:37:25 PM CDT by Fawn
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93 posted on 08/28/2006 12:38:17 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- "if" 10% are fundamentalists, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: colorado tanker

if that DNA does match, the chain of custody for the material - to the 2004 test where the full sample was "discovered", is going to be critical.


94 posted on 08/28/2006 12:40:22 PM PDT by oceanview
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To: stlnative

Thanks, but they're not very tolerant of people who accept the possibility of an intruder...


95 posted on 08/28/2006 12:40:50 PM PDT by ableLight
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Comment #96 Removed by Moderator

To: oceanview
Johm Mark Karr - DNA NOT A MATCH
97 posted on 08/28/2006 12:41:36 PM PDT by onyx (1 Billion Muslims -- "if" 10% are fundamentalists, that's still 100 Million who want to kill us.)
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To: hoosiermama

You think an intruder carried a car battery with him through that window? I don't.

I don't believe she was stunned or drugged.


98 posted on 08/28/2006 12:41:56 PM PDT by Rte66
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To: onyx

Well, I'd have to say that sort of puts a damper on things. If he's not the guy, then he's not the guy.

He is a creep that needs to be prosecuted for the pornography charges though.

If he does know undisclosed details of the case, I would be curious is he may be in contact with the guy. I wonder if they are investigating that angle.


99 posted on 08/28/2006 12:43:06 PM PDT by Conservative Texan Mom (Some people say I'm stubborn, when it's usually just that I'm right.)
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To: stlnative

Please don't link to other forums here. We *are* a forum.


100 posted on 08/28/2006 12:43:39 PM PDT by Rte66
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