Skip to comments.John Mark Karr--DNA NOT A MATCH--DA will not press charges
Posted on 08/28/2006 12:37:23 PM PDT by Fawn
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Just in case no one else has clarified, he was NOT in jail for any crime in Thailand .. he was being picked up in Thailand for crimes committed in california.
He WAS NOT in a Thai prison. He was arrested by Thai authorities at the request of the U.S. for this case.
He WAS NOT in trouble in Thailand and confessing to get out of it.
Thanks for the correction. I apologize for misstating the facts.
At 701 message into a topic, you're a little late to correct me, but thank you - too. See my messages some hundreds of posts earlier on this subject; repeated above.
Heh heh - he had a very long list ahead of me, several thousand, anyway. I was "nothing" in the spectrum of time spent on it. Learned a heck of a lot, tho.
Getting a little bit nitpicky for a moment - none of this was done by cops. It was all done by a D.A.'s office.
Sure, they have investigators just like police detectives; however, the JonBenet Ramsey case was handed over to the Boulder D.A.'s office several years ago and is long out of the BPD's hands.
LOL, even the Boulder Co. sheriff's office made a point in their public statements on their website *before* Karr even got to Boulder to say they were not involved in any way in the investigative portion of the Karr case, only the custody arrangements.
I thought at the time that was pretty smart!
Huh? Where are you getting that? Christmas party list of "who's who"? Not at all.
Text of the ransom note found in the Ramsey family home on Dec. 26, 1996, the day JonBenet's body was discovered in the basement:
Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your business but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed, and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
You will withdraw $118,000 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 a.m. tomorrow to instruct you on delivery.
The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence an earlier pickup of your daughter.
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them.
Speaking to anyone about your situation such as police or FBI will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in anyway marked or tamper with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies.
You can try to deceive us, but be warned we are familiar with law enforcement counter-measures and tactics. You stand a 99 percent chance of killing your daughter if you try to outsmart us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100 percent chance of getting her back.
You and your family are under constant scrutiny, as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain, John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good, southern common sense of yours. It's up to you now, John! Victory. S.B.T.C.
The $118000 figure found in the ransom note was on a pay stub on John Ramsey's desk so other than that I don't see anything else that "only Patsy" would know.
Actually using a threat like "beheading" is VERY usual and sounds more like something a militant Muslim would write!
Two groups of handwriting experts, one from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the other hired by the Ramsey family, have reached that conclusion, sources say.
However, the same two groups of experts differ on whether the girl's mother could have written the note. CBI document examiners have concluded that comparisons with samples provided by Patsy Ramsey do not provide enough evidence to confirm or deny her authorship of the three-page note, a source said.
Meanwhile, unidentified experts hired by the Ramsey family - described as "nationally known and respected" - have concluded there is a slight chance Patsy Ramsey wrote the note, but that it's "highly unlikely."
However, the family's experts are not working from the original note. Examinations conducted on photocopied samples may limit the reliability of any analysis, handwriting experts say.
The rambling three-page ransom note, written on a pad found inside the home and discovered on a back stairway, demanded $118,000 - equal to the amount of John Ramsey's bonus from Access Graphics, the Boulder company of which he is president - and alluded to international connections in the murder. The note was written in block letters, and investigators believe some words may have been deliberately misspelled in an effort at misdirection.
Investigators also found a "practice note," apparently written by the author on paper from the same pad.
Several people, including John and Patsy Ramsey, have provided numerous handwriting samples to investigators.
In addition to several handwriting samples from John and Patsy Ramsey that were "directed" by police and written on request following the murder, investigators also took an undetermined number of samples written prior to the crime from the Boulder home, a source said.
The family's experts are working from similar materials, the source said: copies of the "directed" samples written for police and writings obtained from the house that were penned prior to the murder.
Handwriting analysts maintain their skill is a useful tool in determining authorship. In recent years, however, the practice has been downgraded from a "science" to a "technical skill" by a Supreme Court ruling and has come under attack as an unreliable tool in some academic journals. Despite those hits on the profession, document examiners are frequently called upon to testify in court, and handwriting analysis still is widely accepted in the judicial community.
Experts in the field say they generally trust their colleagues.
"Normally a document examiner would be a reliable individual who reports what he sees," said Andrew Bradley, a 25-year handwriting analysis veteran for the Arapahoe County Sheriff's Department who now owns a document examination firm in Denver.
But both Bradley and others in the field acknowledge there are "examiners for hire."
"I have testified in court many times, and my experience in this business is that I have come up against many hired guns," said Paula Sassi, a member of the American Association of Handwriting Analysts from San Diego. "There are people who will tweak the evidence in whatever way is beneficial to (their client's) case."
In the case of the Ramseys' experts, a source said they were prominent enough that they would be considered extremely reliable, even by CBI's document examiners. Even so, the family's experts have been working at a disadvantage, since they have never been given access to the original note. Working from a photocopy immediately limits the characteristics available for examination.
"You definitely have a problem working with copies," Bradley said. "You are looking at a picture, not the real thing, when you are looking at a copy. That eliminates the pressure pattern (from examination) ... some copying machines can distort, and the ink flow can be distorted."
Besides those things, document examiners look at slant of letters, the "movement" of the writing, spacing, the speed of the writing, the proportional relationship between letters, "terminal strokes" and other things, Bradley said.
Other factors apply.
Handwriting analysis is generally more useful in ruling out authors than definitively concluding authorship.
Looking at a single document is almost useless, experts say. For a reliable examination, analysts must compare the original document with samples provided by suspected authors. Gender cannot be reliably determined from handwriting analysis, and drug or alcohol use may alter the comparison significantly. According to a city spokesman, Patsy Ramsey has apparently been taking medication since her daughter's death.
"Drugs can affect the writing, but it doesn't affect everyone," Bradley said."But what you cannot do is just take a single piece of writing and determine if the person is on drugs."
Whatever the condition and context of handwriting samples, a writer's style usually is difficult to disguise, no matter how hard the writer tries, experts say, especially if the document is particularly long, as it is in the Ramsey case.
"Unfortuately I think we'll never see justice for that little girl - but let's hope this perv is locked up on other charges in CA.
That is what I meant by "Anyway, this JMK character is a very sick dude and should be locked up." in the other thread - ie, lock him up on the other charges in CA. It was my mistake not to make myself clear.
Have you read DA Mary Lacy's "People's Motion to Quash Arrest Warrant," especially para 15, 17 and 19?
The guy is a menace to society and especially to young children.
forget the hired experts - look at it yourself. you can even see from the exemplars that John obviously didn't write it, but Patsy? give me a break.
steve thomas was just on catherine crier - its a disgrace what the civil actions from the Ramseys have done to silence debate on this issue. he could hardly say anything in the interview, and they have tried to do the same to Wendy Wurphy, et al.
>>>Do you understand that the note contained information that was only known to Patsy?
I'm right-handed but can easily disguise my handwriting by slanting my wrist to the left while writing. Now, if I were also ambidexterous, as PR was, it would be even easier to disguise my handwriting, especially if I had time to think what to write (thought process) and which letters to disguise. I'm talking here about the writing of the ransom note, which I think the author who wrote it had plenty of time to think and to write it, NOT the semplars provided to authorities by PR.
>>>The note says don't contact anyone; the Ramsey than invited all there friends over to the house.
It is said that approximately 7 1/2 hours from the time PR made the call to police, that officer Arndt asked JR to search the house for something unusual or possibly JBR herself, dead or alive. What was the exact communication between officer Arndt and JR in this exchange? Why did it not occur to JR to search the house w/o Arndt requesting him to do so? Was JR purposely waiting for such request? What was JR's behavior, body language, and what words were exhanged between JR and his friend as they begin their search and start moving from the top floor down to the basement where the body was found? Did they go straight to the basement, or did they search other rooms in between the kitchen and the basement? Upon reaching the basement, was there any communication, either oral or bodily, between JR and his friend? Upon reaching the basement how long did it take for JR to find the body? Was it JR who found the body or his friend (his name escapes me at the moment, but he was the friend who threw the party for the Ramseys and friends at his residence on December 25th.)? Did JR went straight to the location of the body?
The answer to such and similar questions regarding this event, imo, is one of the relevant issues in solving this case.
If an expert can't say that it is Patsy then why would I or you consider myself or yourselve qualified to render such a judgement?
Would you forget an expert when making a repair on you car or would you just "look at" and know what has wrong and what was to be done
Some of the handwriting experts disagreed
So do we
Somewhat late (as usual) but I am glad you raised the point regarding the Detective Arndt. I have wanted to ask the question of the time line. That would be as to the time the Detective asked John Ramsey to carry out a search.
What time elapsed, before she saw John Ramsey with the body of his daughter?. Could it have been about five minutes?. I wish the best for the Ramsey family. Such a troubling situation.
What impelled me to post was the news media and some of them baying like hounds, for the blood of the prosecutor .
This woman has, no matter what criticism, taken this utterly contemptible destroyer of innocence, to his 15 minutes of infamy.
Anyone that lets this man near young children, after this, should be deprived of their jobs.
Thanks Mary Lacey.
>>What impelled me to post was the news media and some of them baying like hounds, for the blood of the prosecutor .
I would have to agree with you on that. I think Mary Lacy did what she had to do. I don't think she mismanaged the whole thing or was incompetent in her doings.
What compelled me, otoh, to join the thread was on seeing those photos of JBR strangled and her cracked head. Should have never watched them as I'm now having nightmares. What moster, subhuman mutant could do such things to an innocent little girl is beyond me.
The tears are starting to roll down now.
I think the question should be more of who made those photos available online in the first place. It is indicative of the gross incompetence of the Boulder DA's office.
John Mark Karr ... your 5 minutes of fame are over!
Rita Cosby is deeply saddened......