Skip to comments.DA: Alleged Duke Rape Took 5-10 Minutes
Posted on 09/22/2006 1:20:40 PM PDT by Howlin
Three Duke lacrosse players took five to 10 minutes to sexually assault a woman hired to perform as a stripper at a team party, and not the 30 minutes she originally described to investigators, a prosecutor said Friday. "When something happens to you that is really awful, it can seem like it takes place longer than it actually takes," District Attorney Mike Nifong said.
Nifong's comments came as Superior Court Judge W. Osmond Smith III denied a defense request that prosecutors provide a detailed accounting of the alleged assault, including the exact time, place and type of sexual act the accuser said each defendant committed.
A grand jury has indicted three lacrosse players _ Reade Seligmann, 20; Collin Finnerty, 19; and David Evans, 23 _ on charges of rape, kidnapping and sexual offense. The accuser, a student at nearby North Carolina Central University, told police she was raped in a bathroom by three men at a March 13 off-campus party. Defense attorneys have strongly proclaimed the players' innocence.
Kirk Osborn, who represents Seligmann, said the defense needed the "bill of particulars" because the accuser has told several different versions of the alleged assault, and his client has a right to know which version prosecutors will present at trial. In search and arrest warrants issued early in the investigation, police stated the accuser told investigators she was assaulted for 30 minutes.
Nifong said he is not required to state the exact time of the alleged attack, but offered that authorities believe it took place between 11:30 p.m. on March 13, when the accuser arrived at the party, and 12:55 a.m. on March 14, when police arrived and found no one at the house.
Friday's hearing was the first since Smith was appointed to take over the case, and it was scheduled to continue Friday afternoon.
Before the hearing began, Nifong gave defense lawyers 615 pages of evidence, a compact disc and a cassette tape. He said it included much of what was requested by defense lawyers, who had asked for handwritten notes from police officers involved with the case, reports outlining procedures used at the labs that tested the DNA of the players and notes from a mental health facility where police took the accuser after the party.
Wait, so the run-up to this trial only seems to be taking months? Phew, I feel better.
This decribes her as a student at NCCU. There's a big frigg'n joke.
Thanks for the heads up, Howlin.I hadn't heard of the Duke brascelets. But I would have probably ordered one, if I had.
I got mine, Howlin. Where did you order from?
I certainly hope that there is a civil suit against the county and against the AV.....both must be held accountable to what they have put these men thru....
now having said that, if the AV maintains her story, then the men should be able to quiz her entire story, direct from her mouth, and they should be able to unveil all of her life, her "work" , her boyfriends, etc.....she could do the same to the men......
but I am totally against just letting these allegations go without a clear victory , one way or another....
I ordered 10 (it was the minimum order). I have extras. If you would like one for free, let me know. PM me. There are 2 sizes: women-children/medium and men/large.
What evidence is left?
Nifong has no evidence but he has to come up with a timeline that puts all three players in the bathroom. He has a problem with Reade because of his alibi evidence. He does know the times that are related to Reade's alibi though so he's adjusted his timeline for them and condensed the non-rape from thity minutes to 5-10 minutes. That's all Reade's alibi allows for - if that. He would have had to have been on the phone while he was in the bathroom.
The thing is, he doesn't know what Collin's alibi is so he can't build his timeline around that yet.
Thank you, Sarah. That's my understanding too.
Nifong should have folded a long time ago.
LOL. These clowns said the same thing when it was announced Dave Evans was going to speak to the media.
Excellent!!!!! Mind if I steal it?
Sure, I stole it from some other site.
Reade becomes the alibi for all of three boys......plus the fact that there is no DNA.
There is NO way they did this without leaving LIVE sperm, body hairs etc..
The case is stupid.
The link that Ken H gave here before it was pulled!
LOL.........that was a most excellent post, my friend!
Be honest, wouldn't you just love to smack the ever living crap out of him?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner!
Over worked...common complaint of social service workers, which Nifong used to be.
Could they be on back order? I got a few of the first run, which were simply blue bands with the message imprinted. I had to wait a couple of weeks for the second run, which has the message color-filled with white print.
Now THAT is a revealing datum ... 'scuse me while I spit.
I spoke to the A.G. for North Carolina today and someone from Durham N.C. will have to file a complaint. They will not listen to an out of towner. He said no one has come forward with one. I spoke to him for over an hour I had a lot to tell him about Nifong and his mouth.
9:32 PM, September 22, 2006
(I'm not the above poster)
I suspect the AG's or his office is lying about not having gotten any complaints about Nifong from Durham. There is no way for you to know of course and he was counting on that.
Gretta had a segment on the hearing today. Ted was on the panel. I think Feiger was also. There were two other attorneys who I did not recognize and since I am working tonight did not have time to write down their names.
1. The guest attorneys generally agreed that the request for the DNA information was tweaking Nifong. Only one seemed to understand that the defense might want to know who else Mangum had sexual DNA on her that day since she likely lied to Nifong about it for weeks about having had sex with anyone around that time and this can be used at trial to attack her credibility. [As an aside, is Nifong possibly the only one in the room not to figure out Mangum is a hooker?]
2. One who I did not know openned by responding to Gretta's question that yes he was, as an ex-prosecutor and current defense attorney, very concerned that Nifong was taking so long to get the discovery out and have the trial. Ted chimed in with his theory that the defense is making a mistake putting out their information which he claims gives Nifong an advantage. Ted is clueless that the defense may have only given out SOME of their evidence.
3. Ted takes up the rest of the segment by chiming in that the defense with their push polling is being unethical. He does not even mention the polling but starts ranting aobut unethical defense attorneys and Gretta has to go back and explain what he is bathering on about to the viewers. Everyone else on the panel laughs at him pointing out over and over and over that the cure is to not let Mrs. Nifong or anyone else polled on the jury. This goes round and round and round with Ted claiming outrage and everyone else repeating why he is wrong, asking what ethical cannon this violates, asking can they not have mock trials either, saying the DA can poll too, etc. This basically wasted the second half of the segment.
ooooohhh.. I want color-filled ones! Shoot!
I am merely saying that's all Nifong has ... a weak Sane report and the AV's "word."
But maggie, the question is WHICH word? She seems to keep changing them....
Or should I say, Nifong is changing them for her?
Again ... I agree.
This is all Nifong has; a weak SANE report and the AV's weak testimony.
He's prosecuting on her "word."
Any psych majors here? What is driving Nifong? Sure, he wanted to keep his job as DA and ran with this case prior to the primary. Why does he persist, and can he stop himself? Is he delusional? Does he really believe a) Crystal; b) he can win; c) this does not affect his reputation? What will happen to him if a) he loses the election; b) he loses the case; c) he realizes what he's done? Mind you, I don't give a flying fig what happens to him or his wife. I do feel sorry for the kids, though. Inquiring minds want to know..... [Hee. I just had a vision of a front page story on the NE - "Nifong caught in affair with FA!" - sorry]
continued thanks for the pings.
It is sad,
School is back in session;
and Nifongs's mishandling resumes.
DUKE LACROSSE 2006 INNOCENT! #6, #13, #45
I think you're right.
1. Nifong originally was merely trying to win that primary.
2. Now he is trying to win the general AND AVOID PROSECUTION.
Nifong might get out of this case now if he could. But he knows now that he has taken on some people who want more than charges dropped with their names smeared. They want vindication and he likely understands one form of vindication for them would be his sorry butt in prison.
"his sorry butt in prison"
Works for me!
Maybe he & Broadhead can double date.
I think two things are driving Nifong. First, Nifong has some REALLY serious resentments against the lacrosse players. He looks at them and sees young, well-off, nice looking, athletic guys. Let's face it, Nifong is none of those things. That comment he made about Duke students and their "rich daddies" was very revealing. It came out of nowhere and it was dripping with envy and resentment. Second, Nifong used the case for his own self-preservation. He needed it for political reasons and it helped him win the primary.
I think Nifong is smart enough to know that it's very unlikely he could win this case. I also think he is aware he looks like a jerk but there's nothing he can do about it. To drop the case, he would have to admit he made a mistake and I think that would be impossible for him. It would also alienate any supporters he has left. So he has nowhere to go but forward. I also think he's enjoying himself to some extent. He's getting to exert his power over some Dukies and their rich daddies.
Nifong really, really picked on the wrong people to screw around with. I firmly believe that no matter how this case turns out these parents have the means, connections and incentive to make this SOBs life miserable for a long, long time. For what he has done to these people, he deserves whatever he has coming to him. What a pathetic human being!
The D.A.'s Tough Day
Some issues of relevance from yesterday's court hearing:
Tough to know if these families really will stay after him. They have the means. They may decide it is worth it to make Nifong's life miserable for as long as he is a public figure or they may just right Duke/Durham off as a bad choice they made and move on. I certainly am hoping for the former.
That is a pretty big bombshell about the tapes of the radio calls being destroyed and the date they were destroyed.
Mike Ding Dong is now manufacturing witness facts and testimony so it can fit the prosecutions house of tissue paper?
Howlin - Greta Van Susteren had four lawyers on her show last night. It appeared three were pro-prosecution, and one was pro-defense.
The whole interview came apart at the seams. The African-American lawyer started making up law and legal ethical rules on camera in order to try to smear the Duke player's defense team. He claimed that polling the community was an attempt to "poison the jury pool" and made numerous nefarious charges that had no merit whatsoever.
In what must have been a feat never to be seen again on a Greta Van Susteren show, she and the other three lawyers started coming unglued at the black lawyer, saying he was nuts.
The other lawyers pointed out that polling a community in order to prepare your defense is perfectly legal, acceptable, and is practiced everyday in legal circles. They are used to gage the communities reaction to a case so the defense can build its legal arguments.
It turns out that Mike NiFong's wife, who has a different last name from him (weird?), received one of these polling phone calls and hit the roof! She passed this information on to her husband, Mike Ding Dong, who alerted the MSM and his Democratic allies so they can spin up a phony PR "outraged!" fest.
On Greta's show, even the lawyers could not take this black activist lawyer's overheated rhetoric that the defense team was "breaking the law" and had "crossed the line."
He was embarrassed at having been called on his antics. But, he tried again and again to score some soundbite points for NiFong. So at the end of the show, he broke into hysterical laughter while they all cringed.
This trial is going to be a bloody mess.
Unfortunately for Nifong, shortening the time of the alleged attack only undermines what remained of his credibility. Time-stamped photos show the dance ending at 12.04am, a timeline reinforced by the accusers cellphone records and the neighbors statement. The second dancers statement, corroborated by that of the neighbor and most of the accusers myriad and mutually contradictory versions, has the dancers proceeding from the dances conclusion to the bathroom for an unspecified period of time, and from there to the car, where one of the players persuaded them to return to the party. Unless the D.A. is now contending that these developments occurred with the two dancers effectively in a full sprint, both Seligmann and (it appears) Finnerty had departed the house before the window for even a 5-minute attack opens, while Seligmann well before that time was on the phone.
Spurning defense demands for a bill of particulars, the district attorney announced, Were not required to report the exact time an offense took place. Speaking directly to Osborn, Nifong continued, Out of his clients whole life, we have given him an hour and a half that he has to account for.
Setting aside the fact that Osborn has already done precisely that, Nifongs comment reflects his belief that the defense carries the burden of proof. To quote Wendy McElroys recent article,
The assumption that a defendant is innocent until proven guilty has been reversed. Seligmann is assumed to be guilty. But more than this. It is as though Seligmann is not allowed to prove his innocence no matter how much evidence he produces.
Its easy to see the Nifong distraction for yesterdays hearing: his bizarre obsession with defense attorneys routine decision to poll 300 Durham County residents about the case. What, then, is the bombshell evidence he expects? I suppose well learn in a few days, but for now, my money is on the DNA. Defense lawyers want complete information about the second round of DNA testing, with a suggestion that there might be additional matches to people other than lacrosse players (no matches with the accuser) and the accusers three admitted sexual partners in the week before the party (one match, of three). If additional DNA exists, and that DNA belongs to someone not yet tested, then the accuser concealed information about her number of sexual partners in the days before the party.
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