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Cessna rattled by Boeing plane's wake
Seattle Post Intelligencer ^ | November 28, 2006 | JAMES WALLACE

Posted on 11/28/2006 12:58:03 PM PST by skeptoid

It's big, it's ugly and it nearly took out a small plane that got too close.

The Boeing Co.'s Large Cargo Freighter, a modified 747 that will be used to ferry sections of Boeing's 787 Dreamliner, left a wake vortex so powerful that it apparently sent the small plane plunging toward the earth as it prepared to land at Boeing Field.

The single-engine Cessna was being flown by a student pilot, but an instructor took over and regained control, avoiding a crash. By then, however, the Cessna was below the level of the booms of the cranes that are used to load and unload container ships at Harbor Island at the mouth of the Duwamish River.

"It was a pretty impressive job of flying," said a pilot who is familiar with the Nov. 16 episode.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattlepi.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Local News
KEYWORDS: 747lcf; boeingfield; cessna
snip. .."The Large Cargo Freighter was on an approved flight path -- it was where it was supposed to be when it was supposed to be there," a Boeing spokesman said.
Allen Kenitzer, a spokesman for the FAA's regional office, said air traffic controllers issued a required wake turbulence warning as the Boeing jet approached the airport. The pilots of the Cessna acknowledged the wake advisory and said they had the 747 in sight, Kenitzer said. ....."

So .... everybody knew where everybody else was ..... this was a very valuable 'learning experience'. with a totally happy ending.

1 posted on 11/28/2006 12:58:05 PM PST by skeptoid
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To: Nailbiter

ping


2 posted on 11/28/2006 12:59:01 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he Invented Global Warming)
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To: skeptoid
"this was a very valuable 'learning experience'. with a totally happy ending."

Yep, except for whoever had to wash the poor student's underwear when he got home that is...

3 posted on 11/28/2006 1:01:19 PM PST by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: Abathar

Wash?

It probably got thrown in the garbage after that.

Mine would have!


4 posted on 11/28/2006 1:03:36 PM PST by MplsSteve
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To: Paleo Conservative

Ping


5 posted on 11/28/2006 1:03:51 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: skeptoid

Sometimes Visual Flight Rating is just not high enough standard in certain air space corridors.

People once thought prop wash was a disturbing phenomenon.


6 posted on 11/28/2006 1:06:09 PM PST by alloysteel (Facts do not cease to exist, just because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley)
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To: alloysteel

Cheap shot against VFR pilots....

There was a fully qualified CFI next to him that allowed a dangerous condition to foster after a warning from the tower and basic flying 101 rules of maintaining distance from large aircraft due to wake turbulence.


7 posted on 11/28/2006 1:10:01 PM PST by nevergore (?It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.?)
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To: nevergore

Roger that.


8 posted on 11/28/2006 1:12:15 PM PST by skeptoid (BS, AE, AA)
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To: skeptoid
Recently I was in a 737 about 20 minutes from landing when the plane rolled about 30 degrees to the left in half a second. The plane quickly (3 secs) corrected and then 10 seconds after that rolled to the right. Same deal. Yelps, screams and calls to deity filled the cabin.

I've taken literally hundreds of flights and have never experienced that. I guessed wake turbulence but what do I know? No announcement was made.

Upon landing I asked the captain and he confirmed it was wake turbulence. I asked him who put the aircraft too close together and he told me the planes were spaced appropriately.

Can any of you aviation buffs tell me if the captain was being honest regarding the proximity of the planes?


9 posted on 11/28/2006 1:16:54 PM PST by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: nevergore

Anyway you look at it the c.f.i. was responsible. Warning was given and the c.f.i. was in the trainer. He will be getting a visit from a f.a.a. rep soon enough and will have to go through review.
Wouldn't be suprised if his licence were suspended. To cover his rear he's most probably filed a dangerous incident report already.


10 posted on 11/28/2006 1:17:08 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: skeptoid

Wake turbulence.Why was he so close?Used to be a spacing of 5 miles behind an aircraft this size with a small plane involved.


11 posted on 11/28/2006 1:20:09 PM PST by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: Joe Boucher

He can file the report which in most cases protect GA pilots but I'm not sure in an instructors capacity whether that immunity would apply.

You're correct, He most likely will be suspended pending remedial training....


12 posted on 11/28/2006 1:20:37 PM PST by nevergore (?It could be that the purpose of my life is simply to serve as a warning to others.?)
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To: alloysteel

It's Visual Flight Rules (not Visual Flight Rating).

Even if both aircraft were on IFR flight plans there's nothing to prevent the same thing from happening. If the trailing pilot (the Cessna) in this case accepts a visual approach even while on an IFR flight plan then the pilot is responsible for separation including wake avoidance.

The CFI should have corrected the student's spacing in order to provide appropriate separation.

Chris - PP-ASEL (Instrument Student)


13 posted on 11/28/2006 1:21:01 PM PST by Glock19C
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To: skeptoid
A couple of years ago, I shared an office with a guy who owned a Beechcraft Bonanza. We used to go flying at lunchtime at the nearby major airport (~10 min from were we worked). Once we followed an Airbus in for landing [control tower dictates order etc] We were no where near the wake turbluence, but I can see how this could happen....
14 posted on 11/28/2006 1:21:08 PM PST by FreedomProtector
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To: Joe Boucher
"The flight instructor works for the company but she was not available Monday for comment."

The instructor was a she.
(Just FYI.)

15 posted on 11/28/2006 1:22:45 PM PST by skeptoid (BS, AE, AA)
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To: I see my hands
That depends; did you record it and get his name, rank and number?

Seriesly, .... maybe. Or it could have been that little rudder hardover thing.

16 posted on 11/28/2006 1:26:55 PM PST by skeptoid (BS, AE, AA)
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To: skeptoid
Boeing told investigators that the Large Cargo Freighter, which will have a maximum takeoff weight of about 800,000 pounds, weighed about 633,700 pounds at the time it passed the Cessna on final approach to the airport. It is expected to be certified with a maximum gross landing weight of 575,000 pounds.

So why was the LCF 58,700 pounds overweight on approach? Part of the certification tests?

17 posted on 11/28/2006 1:28:48 PM PST by Yo-Yo (USAF, TAC, 12th AF, 366 TFW, 366 MG, 366 CRS, Mtn Home AFB, 1978-81)
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To: Joe Boucher
He will be getting a visit from a f.a.a. rep soon enough and will have to go through review.

First of all the "he" is a she. I say she gets some sort of commendation, and maybe even wins a lawsuit. Her plane was on final and was passed by the larger Boeing plane.

So tell me Ace, what do you think the Cessna should have done? It sounds to me as if it was there first.

ML/NJ

18 posted on 11/28/2006 1:32:14 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Yo-Yo
"Part of the certification tests?"

I couldn't say, but that's what I would guess, and the article didn't say that the LCF touched down....could have been touch and go or goaround.

19 posted on 11/28/2006 1:39:05 PM PST by skeptoid (BS, AE, AA)
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To: ml/nj

I can see it now: "brown alert!"
"what's a brown alert?"
"the color of my trousers!"


20 posted on 11/28/2006 1:39:39 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: camle
Nothing funny about this, so far as I am concerned.

ML/NJ

21 posted on 11/28/2006 1:43:43 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

let's just say that I am dern glad that it wasn't ME up in the cessena, and let us rejoice in that nobody was killed.


22 posted on 11/28/2006 1:53:26 PM PST by camle (keep your mind open and somebody will fill it full of something for you)
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To: ml/nj

Are you a pilot there sport?


23 posted on 11/28/2006 2:05:12 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Joe Boucher
Are you a pilot there sport?

Yup. Instrument rated but not active. FTR, I've flown into Toronto International a couple of times, Palm Beach International, and a number of lesser commercial airports. (Nantucket, Allentown, etc.)

ML/NJ

24 posted on 11/28/2006 2:26:28 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

Current. Live about 45 miles north of Palm Beach International at a place called the Treasure Coast Airpark.
Palm beach is famous for cessnas and pipers flying into 90 north and mucking up passenger carriers when they;ve been cleared for 90 right displaced about 5000 feet from the north runway.
Tomorrow I'll fly from my back yard to sebring for breakfast and maybe over to look at the Gulf waters then home.
Why are you not current if I may ask? Not meaning disrespect or anything, just know I went without flying for a few years and it bothered me.
As for the the pilot in question the big one had clearence and from what I gathered the itty bitty got into their wake. You know the turbulance a big one will create and you need to get the hell away from that one way or another.
I don't believe it said the itty bitty was flying i.f.r. and could have moved over. Once a 747 is coming down it is like an aircraft carrier to stop.
Any and every c.f.i. should know that.


25 posted on 11/28/2006 2:46:05 PM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: Joe Boucher
Why are you not current if I may ask? Not meaning disrespect or anything, just know I went without flying for a few years and it bothered me.

I guess I'd still like to fly. But there's nothing practical about it in the NYC area if one doesn't maintain IFR currency, which is a real burden. My wife never liked flying so we didn't take many trips together. Mostly I would fly for business and back and forth to Nantucket where my family summered when the kids were young. After Nantucket went away and the business flights were mostly 1000 miles plus, I just didn't have a practical reason to continue.

I think you are wrong about the incident in question. The Boeing PASSED the Cessna while it was on final. (Yes. I know there are parallel runways.) The Boeing is an experimental craft, or it should be. It is the obligation of the overtaking aircraft not to overtake if it creates a dangerous cituation, and it is certainly the obligation of the tower not to allow such conditions to occur. But he probably didn't want to tell the big, powerful, Boeing to go around. So he almost killed someone instead.

ML/NJ

26 posted on 11/28/2006 3:01:27 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj; Joe Boucher

I think your explanation about the controller not wanting to isssue a go around makes lots of sense. It's not too difficult to visualize the turbulance settling down onto the Cessna.


27 posted on 11/28/2006 6:16:41 PM PST by B4Ranch (Illegal immigration Control and US Border Security - The jobs George W. Bush refuses to do.)
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To: Joe Boucher
Tomorrow I'll fly from my back yard to sebring for breakfast and maybe over to look at the Gulf waters

Tomorrow is not good for me......but I sure look forward to buying breakfast!

28 posted on 11/28/2006 7:31:38 PM PST by bobbyd (Flyer, I love and miss you...Lords best my FRiend)
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To: alloysteel
C'mon! The power of the engines on a 747 are vastly overrated (note video only shows two engines running).
29 posted on 11/28/2006 7:37:55 PM PST by burzum (Despair not! I shall inspire you by charging blindly on!--Minsc, BG2)
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To: ml/nj

So you'd put blame on tower, Ok,

My C.F.I. lived in west Mass. Would fly to the cape with a few buddies on weekends and a few other friends would go in another plane. His buddy had a i.f.r. ticket and would get there often first cause of fog in the morning. He'd get to the cape later after fog lifted and the best looking girls had already been smoozed by the other guys. so it was a good reason to study for his i.f.r. ticket.
He is now flying commercial. :)


30 posted on 11/29/2006 3:19:49 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: B4Ranch

Two very good scenes in the movie Pushing Tin with billy bob thorton and John cusak:
Billy bob at one time is at the end of a runway as a 747 comes in for landing and the wake picks him up and throws him about 100 feet then near the end they both do the same thing.
Just hollywierd but funny as can be.
Also about ten years ago a guy in a Maule airplane was on the edge of the marion military operations area in central florida. Two f-16 screamed by with both wakes hitting him sending him into a roll and nearly killing his. Not to funny.


31 posted on 11/29/2006 3:35:35 AM PST by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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