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A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection
University of Auckland Department of Computer Science ^ | 23 December 2006 | Peter Gutmann

Posted on 12/23/2006 5:51:48 PM PST by IncPen

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The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history.

Link is to original article; I'm responsible for the 'linkage' and formatting which was not present in the original article.

Posted for discussion and education only.

1 posted on 12/23/2006 5:51:53 PM PST by IncPen
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To: Swordmaker
The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history.

As we were discussing earlier...

2 posted on 12/23/2006 5:53:17 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: IncPen

I just got XP working....Now I have to start all over again?


3 posted on 12/23/2006 5:54:35 PM PST by Dallas59 (Islam Should Not Be Allowed In Western Countries)
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To: nnn0jeh

ping


4 posted on 12/23/2006 5:55:41 PM PST by kalee (No burka for me....EVER!)
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To: IncPen

Can someone translate this for us Mac users?


5 posted on 12/23/2006 5:56:28 PM PST by jacquej
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To: IncPen

I'm not buying it yet.


6 posted on 12/23/2006 5:58:05 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: IncPen
None of this would be considered necessary if not for the dishonest and greedy people who want to enjoy the fruits of other people's labor without paying for it.

Dishonest people imposes costs on all of us.

7 posted on 12/23/2006 5:59:00 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Dallas59
"I just got XP working....Now I have to start all over again?"

Nah--just stick with XP. It'll probably be good for five years or so. By that time, Microsoft will probably have been sued out of business.

8 posted on 12/23/2006 6:03:27 PM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Wonder Warthog

Yup, I switched from XP to a Mac G4 laptop. No problems!


9 posted on 12/23/2006 6:05:06 PM PST by whitedog57
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To: Logophile

Pirates drive innovation, on both sides.

All of the DRM stuff that Vista inflicts will be hacked, bet on it.

Thank God for Open Office, no more Micro$oft Word or Excel or Access for me.


10 posted on 12/23/2006 6:06:26 PM PST by Central Scrutiniser (Pro Evolution, Pro Stem Cell Research, Pro Science, Pro Free Thought, and Conservative)
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To: Logophile

Without paying what for it? Who decides a product's value, the market or the marketeers? The file sharing flap was the market telling the marketeers that their product was only worth stealing.

I will not buy a virtual product. If it ain't a hard copy than I ain't buyin' it.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns. Merry Christmas.


11 posted on 12/23/2006 6:13:55 PM PST by dhuffman@awod.com (The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.)
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To: IncPen

Good God. I am not huge Microsoft fan, but I appreciate using their computers for the things they work well at...and for the most part, I can install stuff and get it to work most of the time with few glitches, but...

This sounds really onerous. Is this is for real? It does sound like FUD on Microsoft stuff...is it REALLY this bad? I just do not know enough about this stuff at the technical level to appreciate the severity of it.

This is disturbing stuff, to me at least.


12 posted on 12/23/2006 6:14:15 PM PST by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: Logophile

That I agree with, but let's face it, even if the majority of people are honest, the dishonest ones can indeed force cost on all of us as a simple result of even a small percentage of dishonest people being a huge number worldwide!


13 posted on 12/23/2006 6:16:15 PM PST by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: IncPen

I can't wait for those who produce games on the PCs to make their products more LINUX and Mac friendly.....

Although there is software out there for LINUX that will allow games to work, but you have to do it yourself. Just wait until the Game makers start doing it on their own.

And no I will not use Vista under any circumstances.


14 posted on 12/23/2006 6:18:05 PM PST by MikefromOhio (Go Bucks!!!!)
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To: IncPen

Hopefully M$ will have a config option where, in exchange for not being able to play "premium" content, I'll have use of my PC. Otherwise I'm going to Linux.


15 posted on 12/23/2006 6:18:48 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the arrogance to think they will be the planners)
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To: IncPen

May Vista and all the globalist triatorous sorts responsible for greedy abuse of the consumer . . . get their just due. May they quickly fall in the pit they dig for others.


16 posted on 12/23/2006 6:18:54 PM PST by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: jacquej
Can someone translate this for us Mac users?

It's good news, actually.

You have nothing to worry about; this is bad news for PC users only.

17 posted on 12/23/2006 6:20:53 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: Dallas59
I just got XP working....Now I have to start all over again?

I'm still waiting for someone to provide me with a valid reason for moving to Vista, especially given the price.

18 posted on 12/23/2006 6:23:41 PM PST by Northern Alliance
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To: IncPen; jacquej
" You have nothing to worry about; this is bad news for PC users only."

" As a user, there is simply no escape. Whether you use Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 95, Linux, FreeBSD, OS X, Solaris (on x86), or almost any other OS, Windows content protection will make your hardware more expensive, less reliable, more difficult to program for, more difficult to support, more vulnerable to hostile code, and with more compatibility problems

That's not what the author indicates.

19 posted on 12/23/2006 6:25:40 PM PST by Covenantor
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To: Northern Alliance

I want Vista for gaming and having a platform that utilizes my dual core 64 bit processor.

I'll probably get a free copy of it when I buy a new laptop next month, we will see.

Microsoft deserves pirating, sounds like Vista is a big "Kick Me" sign.


20 posted on 12/23/2006 6:26:43 PM PST by Central Scrutiniser (Pro Evolution, Pro Stem Cell Research, Pro Science, Pro Free Thought, and Conservative)
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To: Logophile
Dishonest people imposes costs on all of us.

The rise of MP3s, Napster, and the internet as an information sharing device is the result of a dam of information filled past the point of bursting.

That dam was held in place by legislation which favored monopolistic interests, the market be damned.

I don't steal music or movies, because frankly I think most of what those industries spit out is crap.

But I firmly believe the music, film, video, television and news businesses in this country have no one but themselves to blame for what's happening to them.

And I, for one, am enjoying the hell out of it.

One more thing: it's the thinking that put those industries in the situation that they're in that's going to be the undoing of Bill Gates and his monstrous abominations of software.

21 posted on 12/23/2006 6:26:57 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: dhuffman@awod.com
Without paying what for it?

Uh, money, as in dollars or Euros. Isn't that the usual way to pay for something?

Who decides a product's value, the market or the marketeers?

The market, of course. But markets are only possible where property rights are respected—and that includes intellectual property, in my opinion.

The file sharing flap was the market telling the marketeers that their product was only worth stealing.

I don't believe so. No one bothers to steal something they do not consider attractive or valuable.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns. Merry Christmas.

I don't see how this statement is relevant to my post, but I agree with it anyway. Merry Christmas to you too!

22 posted on 12/23/2006 6:27:03 PM PST by Logophile
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To: Covenantor
As a user, there is simply no escape. Whether you use Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 95, Linux, FreeBSD, OS X, Solaris (on x86), or almost any other OS, Windows content protection will make your hardware more expensive, less reliable, more difficult to program for, more difficult to support, more vulnerable to hostile code, and with more compatibility problems

I believe the author is positing his opinion on the caveat that Vista and its attendant protocols take hold of the market.

I'll simply suggest that the Zune is a reliable indicator of what the market thinks of Microsoft and it's nonsensical view of copyright and ownership.

23 posted on 12/23/2006 6:29:33 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: rlmorel
That I agree with, but let's face it, even if the majority of people are honest, the dishonest ones can indeed force cost on all of us as a simple result of even a small percentage of dishonest people being a huge number worldwide!

Sad but true. Most people are honest—but I still lock my doors

24 posted on 12/23/2006 6:29:41 PM PST by Logophile
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To: IncPen
I don't steal music or movies, because frankly I think most of what those industries spit out is crap.

Does that mean you would steal music and movies you like?

25 posted on 12/23/2006 6:35:20 PM PST by Logophile
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To: IncPen

This is an easy problem to fix. Don't buy it. Don't buy any computer that has it. Microsoft will change there tune then.


26 posted on 12/23/2006 6:39:07 PM PST by Revel
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To: rlmorel

There are options.


27 posted on 12/23/2006 6:44:30 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: 1234; 6SJ7; Action-America; af_vet_rr; afnamvet; Alexander Rubin; anonymous_user; ...
Interesting speculation on the effects that Vista's content protection might have on computing in general, including Macs. PING!

If you want on or off the Mac Ping List, Freepmail me.

28 posted on 12/23/2006 6:45:22 PM PST by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: IncPen
One hopes. However since the author cites ATI (video card mfr) extensively, it's clear that if multimedia card mfrs. expect the MS certification for their "Vista ready" roll-out, they will be on board to serve the 90% personal computer market. They really don't have much of a choice do they? I mean that's all they really manufacture, no?


With Apple using Intel processors and making available a dual boot system, Apple users will feel the economic pain, if not functional degradation of PCI video cards etc.The question then becomes, "Will a Vista standard mandated hardware card function in an Apple running competitive OS without crippling the machine? Will the MS DRM silicon dongles have a "call home 911' feature accessible by, let's say RIAA, who will then descend on the end user with a platoon of lawyers?

These are legitimate concerns for all computer users, lest they become virtual serfs to MS.

29 posted on 12/23/2006 6:46:16 PM PST by Covenantor
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To: Logophile
Does that mean you would steal music and movies you like?

Of course not.

My comment was made as a dispassionate observer remarking on the reason that the market is what it is, and why the producers and distributors of copyrighted material will deserve to fail.

And why that is a Good Thing.

30 posted on 12/23/2006 6:46:53 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: kinoxi

I use a Mac for personal and professional use, but...I use Microsoft products at work in a Medical Imaging (Radiology) envirionment. This has me worried...we have a huge amount of money invested in Microsoft workstations, servers and software, not to mention the absolute dependence our radiologic viewing (PACS) software has on Internet Explorer.


31 posted on 12/23/2006 6:47:40 PM PST by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: Swordmaker

Please add me to your ping list.

Keeping the Timex Sinclair doesn't seem like such a bad idea after all. ;>)


32 posted on 12/23/2006 6:48:23 PM PST by Covenantor
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To: rlmorel

You're stuck with the brand name then.


33 posted on 12/23/2006 6:50:00 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: kinoxi

I guess.

In a corporate envirionment, one doesn't have a choice. That old saw about nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft/IBM is true for corporate level IT guys, and I am not sure I would make a different decision.

The third party that makes the image distribution and viewing software (Fuji) is absolutely tied into IE.

That has ALWAYS pissed me off. I thought the whole point of having a web based application was that it could be viewed on any platform.

How naive and wrong I was.


34 posted on 12/23/2006 6:56:15 PM PST by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: IncPen
Of course not.

I am glad to hear it.

My comment was made as a dispassionate observer remarking on the reason that the market is what it is, and why the producers and distributors of copyrighted material will deserve to fail.

All producers and marketers of copyrighted material?

I ask because I write books. My books are published under copyright. Are you saying that I automatically deserve to fail because I do not give away my work free to anyone who wants it?

And why that is a Good Thing.

I keep hearing the same assertion (1 wouln't call it an argument) from people who apparently think it should be their right to enjoy what I produce without paying me for it. They never can explain why I should consider this a Good Thing. Can you?

35 posted on 12/23/2006 6:56:41 PM PST by Logophile
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To: jacquej

This means run OSX. The Bill Gates police wont get you if you dont run that stupid Windows.I dont care if Algore is on the Board as they have been sandal wearing pot smoking since forever, but still the best OS around for me. Of course I am still driving antiques anyway.
barbra ann


36 posted on 12/23/2006 6:56:46 PM PST by barb-tex (Why replace the IRS with anything?)
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To: Covenantor
Please add me to your ping list.

Welcome to the Mac Ping list, Covenantor.

Keeping the Timex Sinclair doesn't seem like such a bad idea after all. ;>)

I give you permission to upgrade to a Commodore 64. It's got better keyboard.

37 posted on 12/23/2006 7:00:52 PM PST by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker

I still got a Commodore 64.

MULE kicked ass.


38 posted on 12/23/2006 7:06:44 PM PST by Central Scrutiniser (Pro Evolution, Pro Stem Cell Research, Pro Science, Pro Free Thought, and Conservative)
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To: Logophile

I am with you on this Logophile.

I am a firm believer that there should be some kind of DRM in place. People deserve to get paid for what they do, writing, music, etc.

Even Michael Moore and Barbara Streisand, two people I despise. But they are entitled to get compensated for what they create, even if it is a Steaming Pantload.

I think DRM is still in its infancy. They will someday find a less onerous way. If we knew what that would be, we would already have it, of course...:)


39 posted on 12/23/2006 7:08:07 PM PST by rlmorel (Islamofacism: It is all fun and games until someone puts an eye out. Or chops off a head.)
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To: Logophile
All producers and marketers of copyrighted material?

I ask because I write books. My books are published under copyright.

I produce copyrighted material too, across a number of media channels, one of which is writing. I'd make a wager that you or someone in your family has seen (or possibly owns) some of my work. I'm of the opinion that one must publish or perish, to borrow a phrase.

Are you saying that I automatically deserve to fail because I do not give away my work free to anyone who wants it?

No, not automatically fail. Seemingly you are smart enough to be attuned to the market and willing to adjust your products to suit the market. But you seem to be under the impression that you have the same rights as the record companies, the mainstream news outlets or the film and video production companies in regard to copyright issues. I'd suggest you look up the DMCA, or the 'Sonny Bono Act' to see what a few well placed millions will buy these days.

I'd also suggest that you read Thomas Jeffersons thoughts on protecting intellectual property, and why he thought that it should be drastically limited.

For even more insight, I'd direct you to Tom Bethell's excellent book, "The Noblest Triumph: Property and Prosperity Through the Ages".

Finally, I'd offer the observation (again) that the rise of Napster, file sharing, etc. is the unintended- and natural- consequence of a perversion of market efficiency by greedy producers of IP who are now enjoying their just desserts. And that that is undeniably a Good Thing.

40 posted on 12/23/2006 7:16:17 PM PST by IncPen (When Al Gore Finished the Internet, he invented Global Warming)
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To: Logophile
None of this would be considered necessary if not for the dishonest and greedy people who want to enjoy the fruits of other people's labor without paying for it.

Exactly. First example: the Walt Disney Corporation. For decades now the employees of Walt Disney have been reaping wild profits off of intellectual property they had no hand in creating. Almost all of the creators of the classic Disney characters are dead, yet these corporate types still leech off of ideas that they never had anything to do with. How? By paying/bribing Congress to extend copyright protection well beyond any reasonable duration. Why should Michael Eisner have made millions off of Mickey Mouse, which he neither created, bought, nor had anything to do with the popularity of? Return copyright to the original 7 years set by the Founding Fathers (or even to the life of the originator), and all of this mess would go away. Instead, copyright leeches are trying hard to use the force of government to make money off of ideas they never had anything to do with in the first place...

41 posted on 12/23/2006 7:24:47 PM PST by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwt! Lr bi mst hord, solce!)
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To: IncPen
From the PC World article (http://www.pcw.co.uk/articles/print/2154785)linked to in the article:
It’s a different matter with the new generation of digital videos and music files. The major movie studios and recording companies have simply said that without copy protection there will be no high-resolution movies or CD-quality music. As a result, Microsoft has extended and improved upon the existing DRM in Windows XP.

From the article:
...so Microsoft will totally control the premium- content distribution channel. Not only will they be able to lock out any competitors, but because they will then represent the only available distribution channel they'll be able to dictate terms back to the content providers whose needs they are nominally serving in the same way that Apple has already dictated terms back to the music industry: Play by Apple's rules, or we won't carry your content.

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The first says that content providers are demanding copy protection while the second says that Microsoft is using copy protection to dominate those very same content providers and that to do so they are willing to cripple Vista's performance and and its attraction to customers.
I know for a fact that the Dolby Digital Surround Sound 5.1 encoder in Ulead Video Studio 10 Plus wouldn't work as of the end of October, but I also know that Ulead (now Corel) promises a fix. I don't believe either Corel or Microsoft is suicidal.
42 posted on 12/23/2006 7:35:46 PM PST by ekwd (Murphy's Law Has Not Been Repealed)
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To: IncPen
Good post - thanks.
43 posted on 12/23/2006 7:42:02 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (We are but Seekers of Truth, not the Source.)
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To: IncPen

Have eyou ever tried to get a license fee for music? I was trying to make a DVD for my daughters basketball team. It was to include 3-4 different songs. After contacting ASCAP, I found out that I would have to secure a license from each label, and in turn the attorneys of each recording artist.

In the end, it simply was too confusing. I WOULD have paid for it. I am in the copyrighted content business, and I felt it would only be right and proper. It would have been a good example for the kids and their parents.

However, getting the rights to the music for 15-20 DVDs was simply not worth the effort.

Make the fees reasonable and easy to secure, and most people will do the right thing.


44 posted on 12/23/2006 7:42:37 PM PST by Vermont Lt (I am not from Vermont. I lived there for four years and that was enough.)
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To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
Nice reply - the dinosaur media companies and Microsoft have enough clout to make some things illegal that are flying in the face of what's sensible. They are motivated by enormous greed, not by what is sensible public policy.

If the church of the medieval monks had enough clout to outlaw the printing press, because it threatened an end run around their monopoly on hand copied books, that would not have make it right.

Sometimes the law reflects good. Sometimes it reflects greed.

This seems to be a pretty clear case of the latter.

45 posted on 12/23/2006 7:47:54 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (We are but Seekers of Truth, not the Source.)
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To: Central Scrutiniser
"I'll probably get a free copy of it when I buy a new laptop next month, we will see."

It won't be free, costs are passed to the consumer.

46 posted on 12/23/2006 7:49:45 PM PST by Abcdefg
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To: Abcdefg

No, when you buy a computer from now until Mar, you get a free Vista CD/DVD in the mail. I would use it for the home PC for gaming.


47 posted on 12/23/2006 7:52:28 PM PST by Central Scrutiniser (Pro Evolution, Pro Stem Cell Research, Pro Science, Pro Free Thought, and Conservative)
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To: IncPen; All

Can someone provide a concise translation of this for the right-brained?

Thanks


48 posted on 12/23/2006 7:58:52 PM PST by Bookwoman
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To: ekwd

"The major movie studios and recording companies...."

well..there's opportunity for other business companies.....


49 posted on 12/23/2006 7:59:07 PM PST by mo
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To: Central Scrutiniser

The additional cost to me was in the cost of the supplies I used to prepare the documents for submission and the stamps. That's it.


50 posted on 12/23/2006 7:59:39 PM PST by ekwd (Murphy's Law Has Not Been Repealed)
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