Posted on 02/23/2007 3:26:17 AM PST by proudofthesouth
I doubt you have any more practical freedom than I do. At least I know where I stand. You seem to think your vaunted democracy still listens to you. From the posts on this board, that is obviously not the case.
From the tone of your comments, I'm wondering if you've ever been to the States or if you've ever read our Constitution?
I will not bear arms against the democratic process. I will against tyranny. This Nation is approaching tyrannical rule, since much is happening against the will of the majority. The North American Union, for example, is not something we will willing subscribe. Perhaps that is why the government wishes to disarm us. If sufficient numbers are armed, then it is a force that must remain in the back of every "representative's" mind.
To understand this philosophy, you must read material written by Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, John Adams, and other Founders of this Nation. It is not really a firearm philosophy as much as a freeman/tyranny issue. This relates to the status of the citizen and the status of the government, and the trust that is vested in those who presume to rule their own destiny.
The fear-mongered craze to eliminate firearm ownership has little to do with actual risks, actual loss of life due to crazed shooters. It is simple phobia. This is not a behavior expected of rational people, unless those people wish to establish tyrannical rule over subjects.
I own a number of military style weapons. I enjoy shooting them. This is the only sport in which I participate. Why spoil my fun, I've never hurt anyone? Why should someone be permitted to have a car that can exceed the speed limit when I can't be permitted to shoot?
It makes sense to remove individuals who are a threat to fellow citizens. It does not make sense to punish the innocent for the crimes not yet committed by the tiny minority.
You must have a degenerate population. The crazies are in a super-low minority here. I'm 57 years old, and have never seen a shootout in the street.
And you sir, must have an extremely paranoid population. I've never seen a shoot out either. Nor am I likely to, because most of the population see no need to have heavy weapons all over the house. So, if neither of us are going to need firearms, who is the more foolish?
True citizens can weigh such minimal risks and decide on freedom and control rather than cowering behind incompetent government "protectors".
Are you implying your police and armed forces are incompetent? Thats not the impression I have. Forgive me if I am wrong to think that.
Darn right I'm a subject of the crown.
This is why you opinions just don't matter.
If that is your curious attitude to the democratic process then I'm rather glad Im not a part of it. It must be so much easier for you, only according the right to an opinion to those whose opinion matches your own.
You must have a degenerate population. The crazies are in a super-low minority here. I'm 57 years old, and have never seen a shootout in the street.
And you sir, must have an extremely paranoid population. I've never seen a shoot out either. Nor am I likely to, because most of the population see no need to have heavy weapons all over the house. So, if neither of us are going to need firearms, who is the more foolish?
True citizens can weigh such minimal risks and decide on freedom and control rather than cowering behind incompetent government "protectors".
Are you implying your police and armed forces are incompetent? Thats not the impression I have. Forgive me if I am wrong to think that.
Darn right I'm a subject of the crown.
This is why you opinions just don't matter.
If that is your curious attitude to the democratic process then I'm rather glad Im not a part of it. It must be so much easier for you, only according the right to an opinion to those whose opinion matches your own.
We dont have an empire anymore.
Yes crimes with guns have increased. Its disgraceful. They are now nearly a tenth of what is committed in New York City. /sarc off
I've been to the States ...six times. And I have read the constitution. Its very impressive, but its words on a page. Do you seriously believe that some dictator bent on taking away your "rights" is going to be deterred by it? Personally, I think any attempt to codify rights is doomed to failure, and if that is so, having such a code might be a positive weakness.
No, it is because most of your citizens are stable, responsible and sane. It is proof that you fear something that is not a threat.
People who commit illegal acts do so whether or not the act is illegal. They will commit that act in the manner they see fit, even to use firearms if they so choose. Where there are metal lathes and milling machines, there will be weapons.
You are the paranoid one, and fear your fellow citizens. That is why you prefer them disarmed. I trust my fellow citizens, and enjoy my time on the range with them. I love my fellow citizens, and I know there are few "rotten apples".
No. Hence the Second Ammendment. It is the duty of the citizen to protect his rights against tyranny. That is why the move is so strong to take the firearms away at this time. Those who would be king see the armed citizen as an impedment to their objectives. The US is 231 years old. This has not been an issue until now. Why?
I swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enimies, foreign and domestic. I never recanted. The dangerous times are created by those who do not understand how our government is supposed to work.
You should now understand that the issue is not "hunting". You should also now understand why we don't want to forcefully joined with you panty-wastes up North. Glad you are not armed, makes our job easier.
Well thats very commendable, and I wouldnt in any way wish to charge you with that. The problem is: who defines what is tyranny and what is democratic process? Do you take that responsibility to yourself?
My reading of this board over the past few months makes it clear to me that your Representatives are not at all scared of armed insurrection. THEIR main fear is losing votes! (and all humour apart, a depressingly large proportion are prepared to prostitute themselves for a few extra percentage points. I'm not getting at the States here incidentally - I see that kind of thing here in the UK too. Depressingly frequent).
As for the relationship between the ruled and those who rule over them, well I can see your point - but wouldnt it be surely simpler to vote them out if they make unpopular useless decisions?
I'm not against people owning and firing guns. If that is your hobby, go off to some rifle range. No problem. Good luck. I'm just worried about the "removing those who are a threat to their fellow citizens". I think that kind of decision needs to be made by the people in toto, not the individual.
Fair enough. Good point.
Fair enough. Good point.
Absolutely! Unless, of course, they never represent the People once they get into office. A clear 80% of The People want the border with Mexico controlled. It is not, and it is government policy to leave it uncontrolled. The North American Union is being setup in stealth. The citizens aren't being asked if this is what is to be done with their country. Is that democracy, or tyranny?
I have watched tyranny creep into the rule of this Nation. The democratic process is indeed being set aside for the "betterment of the entire world". Sadly, most of the Sheeple are busy watching American Idle, the next episode of Lost, or the sacred Football/Baseball events to notice what is happening. They will lose their Nation while they sleep. My kind will be swept aside in an eye-blink; however, I hope to make that as expensive as possible.
I hope you understand that the ultimate objective of the elitist rulers is global governance and third world status for everyone. Do you like the idea of entering into a "democracy" where Africans, Pakistanis, Palestinians, and Chileans participate in deciding what is to become of you and your Nation? You stand to loose as much as I. Perhaps you need to reassess your own stand against recent trends. Perhaps you need to be armed as well.
Exactly. That is why individual "representatives" cannot do this to those who are not a threat. There are courts to deal with misfits. There are weapons to defend against them. There aren't policemen in every home. There are responsible citizens in very home. The system works well.
The People, under the direction of the Constitution. The government strives to control. The People are solely responsible for policing the governemnt. The government is, after all, "of the People, by the People, and for the People". How can that be any more clear?
I do a lot of reading on Germany from the 1920's through the end of WWII and the Demrats in our country remind me a heck of a lot of the National Socialists (Hitler's party for those of you less informed).
ping
Hmmm...if things have reached such a pass, then it implies that the entire idea of democracy may be reaching its "sell by" date.
Dont get me wrong, I'm a democrat (small d). I believe in democracy, the rule of law and will of the people. But I'm not blind to its weaknesses. My reading of the situation in the US (and I'm an outsider - which gives me both a better and a worse insight) is that you effectively are being governed by an elitist autocracy. Presidents come and go but the overall movement of the US doesnt seem to change all that much. Of course, it is possible that the forces at work on your society are too vast for any individual president to reverse, or modify, but that just reinforces my initial proposition.
My own situation is different in detail so has to be opposed in different ways, but I agree the overall globalisation trend is something that every one of us has to deal with, one way or another.
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